Dipping washcloth in Star San

[ncbrewer]

In my never-ending quest to find problems with my process, I have come up with something new. I’ve been using Star San for years – dip a washcloth in it and wipe it on the equipment that needs to be sanitized. But if I squeeze the washcloth while in the Star San (even unintentionally), some cloudy liquid comes out. I think it’s some laundry detergent that didn’t get rinsed completely. I’m sure laundry detergent isn’t good for the Star San. So I started giving the washcloths extra hand rinsing and air drying before putting them back with the brewing equipment. In my case, it takes 50 rinses and squeezes to get it satisfactory (to me).

So I’m wondering if others have done this, or if others think it’s a ridiculous thing to worry about.

 

[marc1]

Spray bottles work great. If I were dead set on wiping something, I would rather use a paper towel than rinse a washcloth 50 times.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm using this sprayer now:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087NB2NH6Works great and is better than the 'normal' type spray bottle. I did have a different one before, but it developed a leak in the body (left it pumped up a few times and it failed). This one is much better. You can adjust the spray to match what you need as well.

Only times I use anything else is to cover something like the funnel for pitching the yeast. That's when I simply use a paper towel of the right size (as mentioned above).

IME/IMO, spraying gives you better coverage than wiping as well. Of course, dunking in a bucket of Starsan is even better.

 

[Vale71]

Washcloths are veritable microbial breeding grounds and starsan is not a true disinfectant so there's a good chance you're actually spreading bugs on every surface it touches. As others have suggestes spray bottles are a much better choice.

 

[MaxStout]

Spray on with a spray bottle, let it sit for a few minutes, wipe off with paper towel. The washcloth method seems like extra hassle, and as mentioned, there is the risk of microbes hiding in it.

 

[Golddiggie]

I never wipe off Starsan once sprayed on. At most I'll drain it away (tipping or via a bottom drain).

 

[ncbrewer]

Interesting comments – thanks, all. I’m especially intrigued by the idea of washcloths being bad for microbes – I’ve never thought about that. I did a quick Google search but didn’t see anything that indicated it might be a problem. I found The Truth About Washcloths
and Are washcloths and other body scrubbers bacteria factories? | Go Ask Alice! - they might not be the best references. I’d like to do some more reading – anybody know of good websites that have some of this info?

 

[tracer bullet]

It's probably OK to use a new washcloth that's dedicated to it. If it's ever washed your armpits or privates, or even done dishes, forget it.

Still, spray bottles are best. Don't think about it, just get one.

 

[Homebrew Harry]

I microwave my sponge for dishes every couple of days and nothing ever smells or grows on there. I microwave dish rags too, but I would not use them for brewing.
If you had a nice new rag you could sterilize it in a bowl in the micro. I would wet it first because the water is what gets superheated.
Be careful because they will get hotter than you can imagine. I wait a minute before getting mine out.
I never thought about using a rag when brewing until seeing this. I do the spray and paper napkin as stated above, but I may try a special rag from here on out.

 

[madscientist451]

I'm wondering what your are wiping off with your star-san infused washcloth? If it needs to be wiped, its not clean. Star-san isn't a cleaner.
Once things are cleaned, there's no need to wipe them, just immerse in the star san (in a bucket) or if you want to sanitize a brewing bucket, dump the star san in there and rotate the bucket to make sure all the surfaces are coated while you are pouring the star san out. I don't use a sprayer.
Keep the star san solution in a bucket, it can be re-used many times.

 

[Golddiggie]

I'm wondering what your are wiping off with your star-san infused washcloth? If it needs to be wiped, its not clean. Star-san isn't a cleaner.
Once things are cleaned, there's no need to wipe them, just immerse in the star san (in a bucket) or if you want to sanitize a brewing bucket, dump the star san in there and rotate the bucket to make sure all the surfaces are coated while you are pouring the star san out. I don't use a sprayer.
Keep the star san solution in a bucket, it can be re-used many times.

I use the sprayer to hit things I cannot dunk. Like the dump port in the conical fermenter. Or the outward facing side of the butterfly valve on the racking arm, before connecting items to it (those are dunked). I use a CIP ball to apply Starsan inside the conical fermenters (post cleaning and rinsing) which is run in a loop until allowed to drain. Then there's the Tapcooler can filler setup I have. I spray that (the part that goes into the cans) if changing a brew that's getting canned. Or if it's been exposed longer than I feel safe allowing. The cans, and lids, are in a container of Starsan (cans are rolled in it to fully coat the inside, then allowed to drain for a few seconds before getting filled).

IME, the pump sprayer makes hitting the items you cannot dunk very easy. I was using the manual spray bottles for years. Then I saw someone using the pump sprayer and switched over to that. Sure, they're not as cheap as the pump sprayers, but you can actually pump it up, and do a continuous spray (until you need to pump some more).

 

[rhys333]

In my never-ending quest to find problems with my process, I have come up with something new. I’ve been using Star San for years – dip a washcloth in it and wipe it on the equipment that needs to be sanitized. But if I squeeze the washcloth while in the Star San (even unintentionally), some cloudy liquid comes out. I think it’s some laundry detergent that didn’t get rinsed completely. I’m sure laundry detergent isn’t good for the Star San. So I started giving the washcloths extra hand rinsing and air drying before putting them back with the brewing equipment. In my case, it takes 50 rinses and squeezes to get it satisfactory (to me).

So I’m wondering if others have done this, or if others think it’s a ridiculous thing to worry about.

I treat wash cloths as if they are breeding ground for bacteria, so I don't put them into my star san solution. I like to keep my main batch of sanitizer as clean as possible and add it to the equipment rather than the other way around.

I don't even use a cloth, to be honest. For the SS kettle and fermentor, I use a Vileda brand scouring pad (great product, btw), and for my plastic stuff I'll use a soft bristled brush that's regularly soaked in Oxi-clean and sanitized. I know that the scouring pad harbors bacteria, but it's only used on SS and additional cleaning/sanitizing happens after scouring.

 

[Mutant]

I have found that my spray bottle of Star San is great to kill a fly - especially if they never land. It doesn't work all the time, but it works most of the time. I don't know if the acid interferes with their tracheal system (they don't have lungs), or what.

 

[JP_BeerFan]

I'm using this sprayer now:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087NB2NH6Works great and is better than the 'normal' type spray bottle. I did have a different one before, but it developed a leak in the body (left it pumped up a few times and it failed). This one is much better. You can adjust the spray to match what you need as well.

Nice. Thought about pump sprayers, but people were talking 2gal ones, and thats just too big for me. This looks reasonably small for handling and storage, yet big enough to be kind of a storage container of StarSan.

One question, any corrosion issues with the brass nozzle, over time?

 

[Golddiggie]

Nice. Thought about pump sprayers, but people were talking 2gal ones, and thats just too big for me. This looks reasonably small for handling and storage, yet big enough to be kind of a storage container of StarSan.

One question, any corrosion issues with the brass nozzle, over time?

I haven't had any issues, but I haven't had it that long (~4 months). I have seen some effect on the end of the nozzle and simply wipe it off. I haven't taken the end off/apart to inspect. I suppose I could, but at <$15 it's a toss up as to if it's worth it.

I went with this size also because it's both easy to use (more nimble) and doesn't hold too much solution. Which means I won't use as much to fill it up. When it's getting low (about 1/4 full) I have been dumping what's left and refilling.

 

[JP_BeerFan]

OK, was wondering how fast the StarSan would chew on brass. Sounds like not very fast is the answer... good!

 

[Golddiggie]

OK, was wondering how fast the StarSan would chew on brass. Sounds like not very fast is the answer... good!

Starsan isn't strong enough of an acid to eat brass much at all. IMO, by the time it starts to, you'll probably already have something else, or one of the plastic parts will have failed due to age.

I might look into ceramic coating the brass parts on mine. Or get another one and do it. I'm setup to do that stuff hear. Just means I'll need to move my brewing setup since that's in front of my blast cabinet. Yeah, I'll look into it once I've moved into a larger place.

 

[ncbrewer]

To answer some of the questions:
- The washcloth is for the fermenter and bottling bucket (simple plastic buckets). I just feel better about the Star San being spread all over the surfaces using a washcloth rather than paper towels or spray bottle. Dumping Star San into it and rotating sounds very effective, but messy.
- The washcloth isn't for cleaning - just for smearing the Star San around on all the surfaces. It gives me confidence that the whole surface is coated.
- I really never had a thought about the washcloth being a breeding ground for microbes. I might change over to something else - I'll have to mull it over. I hate giving up the confidence that I have in Star San hitting every square inch and every crevice of the surface. Maybe try the microwave idea or something similar. Or maybe a large wad of paper towels to get a similar effect.

Lots of food for thought. Thanks.

 

[Mutant]

I just keep a bunch of the 32oz Spraymaster 'The Chemically Resistant Sprayer' - High Output bottles from Home Depot for different chemicals. I like it as it is fairly small and light. I think the one I'm using has had Star San in it for a couple years. The bottle says '5 Year Guarantee', but I don't worry about that guarantee - just throw out and get a new one.

 

[Golddiggie]

To answer some of the questions:
- The washcloth is for the fermenter and bottling bucket (simple plastic buckets). I just feel better about the Star San being spread all over the surfaces using a washcloth rather than paper towels or spray bottle. Dumping Star San into it and rotating sounds very effective, but messy.
- The washcloth isn't for cleaning - just for smearing the Star San around on all the surfaces. It gives me confidence that the whole surface is coated.
- I really never had a thought about the washcloth being a breeding ground for microbes. I might change over to something else - I'll have to mull it over. I hate giving up the confidence that I have in Star San hitting every square inch and every crevice of the surface. Maybe try the microwave idea or something similar. Or maybe a large wad of paper towels to get a similar effect.

Lots of food for thought. Thanks.

If you can pick up the item, pouring in an amount of Starsan (even a cup/8oz worth) and swirling it around (put the lid on to get that coated too) IS effective and has zero risk of being defeated by something you're using to 'spread all over the surfaces'. A spray bottle, set to a mist pattern is just as effective. Using a pump sprayer makes it easier and doesn't decrease how effective it is.

IMO/IME areas where you're doing this won't care about a little Starsan getting on surfaces. Or, at least, it shouldn't. It's easy enough to clean up afterwards to become a null issue.

When I sanitize my kegs, I pour a quart (or two) into the keg, make sure it's spread EVERYWHERE (shake, roll, etc.) with the lid on and it pressurized. I then push at least some of the Starsan OUT of the keg via the liquid post. This ensures the inside of that dip tube is also sanitized. I can also create a jumper and send some through the gas post and tube as I want. This is especially easy if I'm taking care of more than one keg.

For my fermenters, I use CIP (Clean In Place) ball to cover the entire inside of the conical. I use a pump to do this and recirculate the solution for at least a minute or two.

NO towels are use when sanitizing any of my gear. At MOST, I use some paper towels (saturated in Starsan) to cover openings post the chilled wort going into a fermenter, or to cover the opening of the funnel I use to pour the yeast into the fermenter.

IF I was to ever want to use a towel to 'spread' sanitizing solution inside something, I'd autoclave it to ensure nothing is living in it before I consider using it. Since that's more work than it's worth, there's pretty much zero chance of me doing that.

 

[wstumper]

In my never-ending quest to find problems with my process, I have come up with something new. I’ve been using Star San for years – dip a washcloth in it and wipe it on the equipment that needs to be sanitized. But if I squeeze the washcloth while in the Star San (even unintentionally), some cloudy liquid comes out. I think it’s some laundry detergent that didn’t get rinsed completely. I’m sure laundry detergent isn’t good for the Star San. So I started giving the washcloths extra hand rinsing and air drying before putting them back with the brewing equipment. In my case, it takes 50 rinses and squeezes to get it satisfactory (to me).

So I’m wondering if others have done this, or if others think it’s a ridiculous thing to worry about.

Laundry detergent is hard to get out of material. Next time you take a wash cloth out of the laundry, put it into a clear container with water and shake. You should see a bit of soapy/cloudy water. Modern washers use even less water to rinse so the problem is worse. Of course, this also depends on the kind of laundry detergent you use.

Best to use paper towels.

 

[soccerdad]

If it's ever washed your armpits or privates, or even done dishes, forget it.

Still, spray bottles are best.

Who washes pits and privates anyway? That's so 90's!

But seriously, I have a dedicated micro fiber cloth that is only used for brew stuff and really only brushes caked on kreusen inside a carboy (a Better Bottle actually). I swirl it in the fermenter and it brushes gently against the inside to get the last bits that a soak didn't get. It gets washed with oxy free only. Along with any other stuff like a grain bag or hops bag.

 

[IslandLizard]

I've been using small and thin dedicated cotton washcloths (from Dollar Tree) to mop Starsan around the inside of fermenting buckets, lids etc. Dedicated is key, those washcloths aren't used for anything else, of course, they live in my Starsan bucket. They get washed sometimes, then rinsed well and put back in the Starsan bucket. Sometimes I let them dry. I keep around 4 to 6 in the bucket at any time.

They get also used to mop Starsan around the mouths of yeast starter flasks and 1/2 gallon pickle jars, used for making starters, etc. When oxygenating a jar or flask with yeast starter, the cloths (folded over twice) are used as temporary covers, to prevent stuff from entering while the oxygen wand stands in the flask/jar. When ready to go on the shaker, the Starsan cloths get replaced with a foil hood, and they go back in the bucket.

I've never encountered a problem, if anything, they work like a charm!

 

[RufusBrewer]

If I were to use a cloth made of some sort, I do not know what I would do with it after the first use. Wash it? In what? Rinse it? In what? Maybe you could air dry it. I would not be comfortable allowing something wet flapping in the open air to dry.

StarSan is a no-rinse sanitizer. I have used a white paper towel soaked in StarSan to apply the product. I might use the same towel to knock off any foam.

A spray bottle filled with StarSan is an effective way to apply the product.

But a reusable cloth? Not me. The alternatives are more attractive.

 

[Vale71]

StarSan like any other product that can be sprayed on surfaces according to the manufacturer's instructions contains tensides that will make it spread evenly on every surface and even get into surface cracks (at least up to a point). There is really no need for any mechanical action on top of that.

 

[bracconiere]

bad for microbes

their good for microbes, they are porus, can't sanitize what you can't clean....

instead of 50 rinses, after a wash. throw them in a pressure cooker for 30 minutes at 15psi.....and let them cool, in an air tight container or something.....