Stalled or Finished fermenting at 1,010 ?

[Sballe]

So - I have 2 batches of wild fermenting cider going. About 2 months in the carboys now. One has been steady at gravity 1,010 for 2 weeks. The other has been steady at 1,020 for two weeks.

Are they done fermenting or are they stalled ?

I usually carbonate in bottles with priming sugar -- but I have never had a FG of 1,020 before !! Adding sugar to this, and bottling it up sounds like a disaster on the way ! Then again -- gravity hasnt moved in over 2 weeks !??

At what FG is it safe to add priming sugar and bottle ?

What should I do next ?

 

[DBhomebrew]

With which tool are you measuring gravity?

 

[Sballe]

With which tool are you measuring gravity?

Hydrometer

 

[ncguire]

What temp do you have them at? Could be stalled if too cold. I left two batches from last year in my fermentation fridge for 9 months at 55F. I figured they were done because they were clear, no airlock activity, etc. I was getting ready to bottle and did a final gravity reading and got 1.020. I decided to move them to my dining room, which was about 75F. Sure enough they started fermenting again a day later, ended up finished around 1.00.

 

[Sballe]

What temp do you have them at? Could be stalled if too cold. I left two batches from last year in my fermentation fridge for 9 months at 55F. I figured they were done because they were clear, no airlock activity, etc. I was getting ready to bottle and did a final gravity reading and got 1.020. I decided to move them to my dining room, which was about 75F. Sure enough they started fermenting again a day later, ended up finished around 1.00.

They have both been fermenting cold - they are in a unheated shed outside. Temperatures have obviously been falling - and probably around 55-60 F these last couple of weeks...

 

[Chalkyt]

Another option to consider is that if it is a wild ferment, the chances are that you haven't added any nutrients (DAP etc). I just let my wild ferments do their stuff without any such additions but my fruit is from trees that have been fertilised from time to time and shouldn't be low in YAN.

I understand that sometimes nutrient depletion by racking to reduce the amount of YAN in the juice can be an approach to stop fermentation and produce a sweeter cider. i.e. the yeasts run out of food and stop working.

If your apples are from an older orchard without any fertilisation the fruit can be low in YAN. Jolicoeur has suggested that adding some DAP or upping the temperature can get things going again. In any case that is a simple first approach to fixing things, and doesn't do any harm.

 

[Sballe]

Another option to consider is that if it is a wild ferment, the chances are that you haven't added any nutrients (DAP etc). I just let my wild ferments do their stuff without any such additions but my fruit is from trees that have been fertilised from time to time and shouldn't be low in YAN.

I understand that sometimes nutrient depletion by racking to reduce the amount of YAN in the juice can be an approach to stop fermentation and produce a sweeter cider. i.e. the yeasts run out of food and stop working.

If your apples are from an older orchard without any fertilisation the fruit can be low in YAN. Jolicoeur has suggested that adding some DAP or upping the temperature can get things going again. In any case that is a simple first approach to fixing things, and doesn't do any harm.

Thx ! I did not add nutrients … so I have added some now and Will see if it starts fermenting again.

IF going for a sweeter cider as you describe , this stalled fermentation is part of the plan. But does that mean that bottle-carbonation is not possible ?

 

[Miraculix]

Thx ! I did not add nutrients … so I have added some now and Will see if it starts fermenting again.

IF going for a sweeter cider as you describe , this stalled fermentation is part of the plan. But does that mean that bottle-carbonation is not possible ?

You might have now ruined your perfectly fine cider. If the yeast won't eat up every part of the nutrients, you will taste it in the product and it won't taste good. Especially of you used dap or a nutrient that contains dap.

Better would have been just warming it up and waiting it out.

 

[Sballe]

You might have now ruined your perfectly fine cider. If the yeast won't eat up every part of the nutrients, you will taste it in the product and it won't taste good. Especially of you used dap or a nutrient that contains dap.

Better would have been just warming it up and waiting it out.

Well -- done is done. I didnt add much though. Won't the yeast and nitrogen disappear over time like sulphur ?

 

[Miraculix]

Well -- done is done. I didnt add much though. Won't the yeast and nitrogen disappear over time like sulphur ?

Nope, I'm afraid not. What and how much did you add? Did you also warm it up a bit? If it is too cold, yeast will stay dormant, with or without nutrients.

 

[Sballe]

Nope, I'm afraid not. What and how much did you add? Did you also warm it up a bit? If it is too cold, yeast will stay dormant, with or without nutrients.

I added about 1/2 teaspoon of nutrient to some boiling water. Dissolved completely - then added about 2 teaspoons of this solution to each carboy. Had a little room in the carboy so topped up with a little fresh applejuice…

Warming up is not really and option; because it is in a shed on a different property. (No electricity). If I should warm it up - I would have to transport it about 10 miles … back to my own place…

 

[Chalkyt]

Both Jolicoeur and Lea have written about adding DAP to progress a stalled fermentation caused by insufficient YAN for fermentation to progress to dryness. The numbers are a bit rubbery but Jolicoeur suggest adding 10ppm of DAP for reach SG 0.004 required, and Lea suggests 50ppm for complete dryness. (You will find the discussion in The New Cider Maker's Handbook Ch 14.2) .

Very roughly, you seem to have added 1-2 g of DAP to each of your carboys. If they are 5 gallon units (i.e. about 20 litres), this is conveniently something like 50ppm of DAP!

As for your other question. If the fermentation re-starts, then bottle carbonation should work O.K. as the now active yeast can convert any carbonation sugar into CO2 and alcohol until it is all gone (or you have very cleverly just added enough DAP to ferment as much sugar as you want... which all sounds far too hard. I am afraid that I simply heat pasteurise once the bottle pressure has reached the carbonation level that I want).

 

[Srimmey]

Nope, I'm afraid not. What and how much did you add? Did you also warm it up a bit? If it is too cold, yeast will stay dormant, with or without nutrients.

If you really are at risk of making a nutrient bomb due to stalled fermentation, I would first look at your current abv. If it’s above 9%, what’s done is done. If it’s not, see below.

1. Bring it home - if your cold, their cold

2. Still now activity? - could acid be a problem? Idk what recipe you used but if you added high acid fruit or peppers and your yeast was near tolerance it could have stopped the fermentation.

3. Fix the issue, repich your yeast. Get it started 24 hours before in a nice happy environment so they are good and strong.

4. Let it go dry, hopefully no more nutrients.

 

[Sballe]

If you really are at risk of making a nutrient bomb due to stalled fermentation, I would first look at your current abv. If it’s above 9%, what’s done is done. If it’s not, see below.

1. Bring it home - if your cold, their cold

2. Still now activity? - could acid be a problem? Idk what recipe you used but if you added high acid fruit or peppers and your yeast was near tolerance it could have stopped the fermentation.

3. Fix the issue, repich your yeast. Get it started 24 hours before in a nice happy environment so they are good and strong.

4. Let it go dry, hopefully no more nutrients.

I added a little nutrient and topped up with some fresh juice … it is fermenting happily again. Hopefully I didn’t add too much nutrient so that the flavor will be affected…