Spontaneous Fermentation

[Gnomebrewer]

Does anyone else have a spontaneous (or supplemented spontaneous) ferment going? Let's share some progress/updates seeing as it takes so long to get to drink them! I've just started my first - visible fermentation activity started in three days and looks very sacch like. Here are some photos - I'll follow up with recipe and process details. Super excited! Only 495 days to go to bottling!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

It's a simple lambic-esque recipe - 60% pils malt, 20% wheat malt, 20% flaked wheat and a little bit of maltodextrin. OG 1.050. I don't have any aged hops, so it has 2g/L of 2.3% Hallertauer. It costs about $10 for a 3 gallon batch, and the PET bottles are free (used water cooler bottles), so it's not too bad if it ends up being a dumper. It was cooled overnight in my brew room (mancave) in the boil pot with a BIAB bag over the top of it to keep bugs out - temperature was about 11C/52F. I tipped in the dregs from a 2014 Boon Gueuze Marriage Parfait that had been woken with a bit of 1.020 starter wort, so it's a supplemented spontaneous ferment. The fermenter is sitting in my brew room so is quite cool - I'm surprised it only took a few days for active fermentation to start! So far it looks and smells quite clean. I'm planning to do one of these each time I have some gueuze dregs, and maybe one or two purely spontaneous as well. I chose this process because the Mad Fermentationist (Mike T) rates his lambic using a similar method as his best to date (although he does use aged hops). I'll keep this updated with progress and new batches - it'd be great to hear from anyone else with similar ferments going or gone - progress and/or outcomes.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I tipped in the dregs from a 2014 Boon Gueuze Marriage Parfait that had been woken with a bit of 1.020 starter wort

I wonder if Boon uses a bottling strain. Typically you don't want to add dregs in primary unless you know a bottling strain hasn't been used, because you want a more expressive yeast to do the primary fermentation. Many wine strains used for bottle conditioning produce kill factor that would interfere with most other wild strains (or commercial stains) of Sacc.
I don't think it's a show-stopper though either way.

That hop rate is fine; it's on the low side so it'll definitely get sour rather quickly from the dregs if nothing else.

I have some wild starters going but not a full batch.

Good luck! Keep us updated.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Ah, thanks for that. I didn't know gueuze sometimes had wine yeast for bottling - I'm still surprised (if that's what it is) that it's chugging away so quickly with such a small pitch at such a low ferment temperature, and 5 years after bottling.

I might go with a higher hopping rate for my next one - I like more funk over more sour (Tilquin a l'Ancienne is my favourite so far), so would rather the sour happened more slowly. Maybe 3g/L? 4g/L?

My brew room is perfect for spontaneous ferments - lots of spilled beer and grain (rarely cleaned up), open beams (floor joists and bearers for the main house) and un-sealed concrete, and a decent blanketing of spiders webs!

 

[RPh_Guy]

Maybe 3g/L? 4g/L?

Yeah, in that range would be better.
You can toss in some dry hops now if you like. I bet it's not sour yet.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Yeah, in that range would be better.
You can toss in some dry hops now if you like. I bet it's not sour yet.

I need to top up the fermenter - I was a bit short on volume. I might add some hops while I'm at it.

 

[yourlastchance89]

Ah, thanks for that. I didn't know gueuze sometimes had wine yeast for bottling - I'm still surprised (if that's what it is) that it's chugging away so quickly with such a small pitch at such a low ferment temperature, and 5 years after bottling.

I might go with a higher hopping rate for my next one - I like more funk over more sour (Tilquin a l'Ancienne is my favourite so far), so would rather the sour happened more slowly. Maybe 3g/L? 4g/L?

My brew room is perfect for spontaneous ferments - lots of spilled beer and grain (rarely cleaned up), open beams (floor joists and bearers for the main house) and un-sealed concrete, and a decent blanketing of spiders webs!

There is an available list out there online somewhere that lists specific beers that are viable for harvesting dregs.

 

[RPh_Guy]

There is an available list out there online somewhere that lists specific beers that are viable for harvesting dregs.

Unfortunately it doesn't list whether there's additional bottling yeast, and it's not up-to-date or all-inclusive.

Many breweries add a wine yeast at bottling to expedite carbonation and avoid THP production. Adding bottling yeast from an acid shock starter is highly recommended.

Cheers

 

[jfolks]

Traditionally, lambic brewers are not adding any extra yeast at packaging for gueuze - they use young lambic and hold the bottles for a year. (Note - some fruited blends may get bottling yeast though I think).

I’ve been making “cheater” lambics for a while now using built up 3F and Cantillon dregs - including from fruited versions. The turbid mash and aged hops seem to make more complex versions than single infusion and fresh low AA hops. Training a barrel using this method and will go for a full spontaneous version this winter!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Training a barrel using this method and will go for a full spontaneous version this winter!

I'm brewing my first full spontaneous version (well, as close a lambic brewers do them) in the next few days. To emulate barrel aging and to ensure some Brett, I'll throw in an oak stave (after about a week) from a previous Brett saison batch that I'll soak in hot water first.

 

[jfolks]

I'm brewing my first full spontaneous version (well, as close a lambic brewers do them) in the next few days. To emulate barrel aging and to ensure some Brett, I'll throw in an oak stave (after about a week) from a previous Brett saison batch that I'll soak in hot water first.

Are you in the US or Australia? If you’re in the US, I’d wait until the overnight temps get closer to just above freezing - they say summer wild microbes aren’t well suited for spontaneous fermentation (they can make gross beer).

I’d just add the stave straight from the last batch (no hot water) into the new one when you transfer to the fermenter - this ensures some of the Brett survives

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Are you in the US or Australia?

Australia. The very far south, so temperatures here are quite cool overnight at the moment - a few degrees above freezing.

 

[jfolks]

Australia. The very far south, so temperatures here are quite cool overnight at the moment - a few degrees above freezing.

Perfect timing then!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

It got a bit delayed, but number two is finally showing signs of life - right on a week since brewing. This one (so far) is entirely spontaneous. I'll give it a Brett oak stave in a couple of weeks (and top up the headspace). So far it smells OK - definitely not clean, not offensive, but not particularly great either. I'm happy with that! Hoping to get another two or three done before the weather warms up too much.

 

[couchsending]

Third Spontaneous attempt has started to show signs of life!

First two I pitched yeast the next AM but saved 1 gallon of each to see if anything would happen on its own. First batch I didn’t acidify to below 4.7 and it ended up getting mold growth. Second batch I acidified, it took forever but it started to ferment at like 14 days and didn’t get mold.

I acidified this one and let it sit out for longer. I use my grainfather so I can maintain temp if it’s too cold out. 5 days later and looks like fermentation is well under way!