Spike Conical- observations and best practices

[CodeSection]

@Yesfan, don't be fooled thinking you need to cold crash before dumping trub/yeast OR that you really need to cold crash. There is an abundance of information from pros, from manufactures, from retailers, and on forums that describe the process of dumping trub/yeast before cold crashing. Just think about all those pros and other brewers that perform their first dump near the end of fermentation or after the fermentation.

If you Google the question, you will find so many links on the subject that it would take you weeks to read.

BTW, brewers have been making great beer without ever cold crashing. The two main reasons to cold crash for me is that it will "clear" the beer so that there is less to no sediment on the bottom of the bottles. Though, brewers use fining agents like gelatin without ever cold crashing. Some use both processes.

The second reason for cold crashing is that I no longer bottle condition since I want to avoid oxidation. Thus, being able to perform a closed transfer to a bright tank and then being able to use less CO2 psi since the beer's temp is ~28F to obtain my desired amount of carbonation achieves my goal. The warmer the beer, the higher the CO2 psi is needed to obtain the same desired carbonation level.

Again, you do not need to cold crash before dumping your trub/yeast.......

 

[Nate R]

@Yesfan, don't be fooled thinking you need to cold crash before dumping trub/yeast OR that you really need to cold crash. There is an abundance of information from pros, from manufactures, from retailers, and on forums that describe the process of dumping trub/yeast before cold crashing. Just think about all those pros and other brewers that perform their first dump near the end of fermentation or after the fermentation.

If you Google the question, you will find so many links on the subject that it would take you weeks to read.

BTW, brewers have been making great beer without ever cold crashing. The two main reasons to cold crash for me is that it will "clear" the beer so that there is less to no sediment on the bottom of the bottles. Though, brewers use fining agents like gelatin without ever cold crashing. Some use both processes.

The second reason for cold crashing is that I no longer bottle condition since I want to avoid oxidation. Thus, being able to perform a closed transfer to a bright tank and then being able to use less CO2 psi since the beer's temp is ~28F to obtain my desired amount of carbonation achieves my goal. The warmer the beer, the higher the CO2 psi is needed to obtain the same desired carbonation level.

Again, you do not need to cold crash before dumping your trub/yeast.......

Everything he said i agree with!!!
However, i think @Yesfan Is after super clear beer and/or super efficient dumps, right???
So, if you wany very easy effective dumps and clear beer, right from the conical without fining, then crashing may be the option.

I wish i knew this before i went all-in on a conical and cooling.
I think this is where stainless buckets (for $100-$400) satisfy the balance between functions and cost. I.e. a bucket fits in a $50 dorm fridge.
A conical usually takes much more. Sure you get more gadgets and doodads, but the cost benefit ratio is significantly higher for the extras.

I have never used buckets so this is just my ramblings. I finally used my speidel 7 gallon and was very happy overall.

 

[specialkayme]

I'm re-reading the entire thread, on page 47 currently, making headway but it takes a while. A ton of information to digest in this thread. Thanks to all who contributed.

I pulled the trigger on a CF5 a few weeks back. Picked up the carb stone, racking arm, pressure transfer kit, and a spare gasket. Picked up a 2" TC Sightglass Yeast Brink from Norcal. Once it all came in, I pressurized the CF5 to make sure it worked. Held 10 PSI for 5 days, so disassembled everything and gave it a good PBW soak before sanitizing. The PBW ate away on the finish on the PRV on the pressure manifold. Contacted Spike and they said they've never seen anything like that, and sent a new one. Should be here any day now. Weird. But customer service is great with Spike, so no worries.

I intentionally didn't pick up the leg extensions from Spike when I placed the initial order. I wanted to see how much clearance I had in my upright freezer, and how much clearance I needed with the YB. When I set it all up it looked like I needed the 18" extensions, but when I went to buy, Spike is sold out. So I made my own out of some scrap wood I had lying around. Ended up working out fine.

I brewed a Wee Heavy yesterday for the inaugural brew on the CF5. My fermchamber is in a storage shed, but I eBIAB in my kitchen. So I had to find a way to get the wort from the kitchen to the storage shed/FC. My original plan was to fill the CF5 up in the kitchen then carry it (probably two people) to the storage shed, maybe 75 feet away. But the big "DO NOT LIFT WHEN FULL" printed on the handles of the CF5 gave me some trepidation, so I decided not to do that. My backup plan was to put the CF5 in the FC, sanitize a bucket, carry the wort and dump it in the top of the CF5. But with the "leg extension" I don't have much clearance in the FC to do that. 75 feet of tubing to pump it in is a little excessive, so I opted against that. My second back up plan was to sanitize and fill a keg, then do a gravity transfer into the CF5. Again, with the leg extensions, I didn't have enough ceiling clearance in the shed to get it above the fill like on the CF5, so that idea got scrapped.

In the end I did a pressure transfer from the keg to the CF5, in through the racking port. I had to make two trips (5.5 gallons won't fit in my 5 gallon keg), which wasn't particularly enjoyable, but it worked. The tubing on the pressure transfer kit ended up leaking though. Wort dripped all over the FC, and CO2 was leaking out the other hose. I don't have any experience using the crimp style tube closures that came with the pressure transfer kit, so I wasn't able to close it off just yet. Plus at this point I was just tired, so let it leak a little while it transferred in.

I was tired and frustrated at this point (nothing against the CF5, just a long day at this point). I wasn't used to "pressure transferring from the bottom up." To add insult to injury, I forgot to depressurize the keg when done, and when I went to disconnect the pressure transfer hose from the racking arm, the pressure was released spraying me in the face (and whatever part of the FC that didn't have wort in it at this point) with 1.099 SG wort. Looks like I might need practice to get the pressure transfer in down.

Let it sit overnight, then dumped the trub this morning before pitching the yeast. I should have gone with a larger YB though, as the 2" YB only fits about 25-33% of a quart when full. So I had to do about 4 dumps to get most of the trub out.

Very long story short, I'll be reaching out to Spike to see if they can help me seal up the pressure transfer kit. But in the meantime, anyone have any solutions to transfer the wort from the kettle to the CF5 that works with my limitations? Just get better at pressure transferring? Say screw it and lift it when full? Or use a pump instead?

 

[Vale71]

Yeah, pressure is really tricky. You can't see it or feel it or smell it until it hits you full in the face and by then it's too late...
Just be carefult and with time dealing with pressurized vessels will become second nature. Just don't ever forget to keep on being careful.

 

[itsnotrequired]

FWIW, I usually perform my first dump just prior to cold crashing. I perform a second dump after waiting at least 24 hours from the start of cold crashing (somewhere between 24-36 hours). I perform my third dump just prior to performing a closed transfer to my bright tank.

i do the same but skip the third dump. first dump gets most of the stuff that has already fallen out of suspension. second dump allows for much of the suspended material to fall out due to the cold temps. then i leave it. my thoughts are that each dump kicks material up so takes that much longer to settle out. by the time i do the second dump, any additional material that falls out of suspension will settle in the sight glass/lower conical portion and will be below the racking arm. that's all i really care about, getting material below the racking arm so i am racking clear beer from the get-go.

 

[FswBG]

I'm re-reading the entire thread, on page 47 currently, making headway but it takes a while. A ton of information to digest in this thread. Thanks to all who contributed.

I pulled the trigger on a CF5 a few weeks back. Picked up the carb stone, racking arm, pressure transfer kit, and a spare gasket. Picked up a 2" TC Sightglass Yeast Brink from Norcal. Once it all came in, I pressurized the CF5 to make sure it worked. Held 10 PSI for 5 days, so disassembled everything and gave it a good PBW soak before sanitizing. The PBW ate away on the finish on the PRV on the pressure manifold. Contacted Spike and they said they've never seen anything like that, and sent a new one. Should be here any day now. Weird. But customer service is great with Spike, so no worries.

I intentionally didn't pick up the leg extensions from Spike when I placed the initial order. I wanted to see how much clearance I had in my upright freezer, and how much clearance I needed with the YB. When I set it all up it looked like I needed the 18" extensions, but when I went to buy, Spike is sold out. So I made my own out of some scrap wood I had lying around. Ended up working out fine.

I brewed a Wee Heavy yesterday for the inaugural brew on the CF5. My fermchamber is in a storage shed, but I eBIAB in my kitchen. So I had to find a way to get the wort from the kitchen to the storage shed/FC. My original plan was to fill the CF5 up in the kitchen then carry it (probably two people) to the storage shed, maybe 75 feet away. But the big "DO NOT LIFT WHEN FULL" printed on the handles of the CF5 gave me some trepidation, so I decided not to do that. My backup plan was to put the CF5 in the FC, sanitize a bucket, carry the wort and dump it in the top of the CF5. But with the "leg extension" I don't have much clearance in the FC to do that. 75 feet of tubing to pump it in is a little excessive, so I opted against that. My second back up plan was to sanitize and fill a keg, then do a gravity transfer into the CF5. Again, with the leg extensions, I didn't have enough ceiling clearance in the shed to get it above the fill like on the CF5, so that idea got scrapped.

In the end I did a pressure transfer from the keg to the CF5, in through the racking port. I had to make two trips (5.5 gallons won't fit in my 5 gallon keg), which wasn't particularly enjoyable, but it worked. The tubing on the pressure transfer kit ended up leaking though. Wort dripped all over the FC, and CO2 was leaking out the other hose. I don't have any experience using the crimp style tube closures that came with the pressure transfer kit, so I wasn't able to close it off just yet. Plus at this point I was just tired, so let it leak a little while it transferred in.

I was tired and frustrated at this point (nothing against the CF5, just a long day at this point). I wasn't used to "pressure transferring from the bottom up." To add insult to injury, I forgot to depressurize the keg when done, and when I went to disconnect the pressure transfer hose from the racking arm, the pressure was released spraying me in the face (and whatever part of the FC that didn't have wort in it at this point) with 1.099 SG wort. Looks like I might need practice to get the pressure transfer in down.

Let it sit overnight, then dumped the trub this morning before pitching the yeast. I should have gone with a larger YB though, as the 2" YB only fits about 25-33% of a quart when full. So I had to do about 4 dumps to get most of the trub out.

Very long story short, I'll be reaching out to Spike to see if they can help me seal up the pressure transfer kit. But in the meantime, anyone have any solutions to transfer the wort from the kettle to the CF5 that works with my limitations? Just get better at pressure transferring? Say screw it and lift it when full? Or use a pump instead?

Sorry to hear the maiden voyage turned into a headache. Where is the leaking coming from?


You'll dial in what works best after a few transfers. In my process I start the racking arm at about 3/9 o'clock, add about 6 psi to the gas manifold, connect spike's transfer TC 'swivel nut' to liquid 'out' ball lock into a purged and pressurized keg (about 5psi). Loosening the Tri-Clamp to the racking port should flush O2 out of the line then re-tighten. Add a spunding valve to the gas post of the keg (>5psi) and open the racking valve to let her rip. Once it gets to the dregs, rotate the arm to get the last of it without the sediment.

BTW I have filled the conical from just about every port. I tend to fill from the 2" port on the bottom with ease. It might be another option for you since you have a few clearance issues. Congrats on joining us and hopefully you'll get the kinks ironed out!

 

[specialkayme]

Where is the leaking coming from?

Inbetween the hose and the swivel nut. Right where the clamp is.

New video

For the gas post, it's also leaking a little bit at the swivel nut connection to the QD. Normally I'd disassemble and wrap with PFTE tape and wrench it back on, but considering the leak at the hose itself was 10x larger, I didn't bother here.

BTW I have filled the conical from just about every port. I tend to fill from the 2" port on the bottom with ease. It might be another option for you since you have a few clearance issues.

I thought about that, but the fittings wouldn't have worked out for what I have right now. Or at least, not ideal.

Transferring from a keg to the conical, I'd need a QD to TC threaded connection. The only one I had was the 1.5" one that came with the pressure transfer kit. The 2" TC to 1/2" barb fitting I have for the bottom wouldn't be able to connect to a keg. So I'd either have to buy a 2"TC to 1.5"TC reducer and use the pressure transfer kit fitting, buy a 2"TC threaded connection, or use the 2"TC to 1/2" barb and use a pump in order to fill from the bottom.

But that may be a viable solution in the future. I'm not opposed to getting another fitting if it makes my life easier. Just didn't have it yesterday.

 

[Nate R]

I'm re-reading the entire thread, on page 47 currently, making headway but it takes a while. A ton of information to digest in this thread. Thanks to all who contributed.

I pulled the trigger on a CF5 a few weeks back. Picked up the carb stone, racking arm, pressure transfer kit, and a spare gasket. Picked up a 2" TC Sightglass Yeast Brink from Norcal. Once it all came in, I pressurized the CF5 to make sure it worked. Held 10 PSI for 5 days, so disassembled everything and gave it a good PBW soak before sanitizing. The PBW ate away on the finish on the PRV on the pressure manifold. Contacted Spike and they said they've never seen anything like that, and sent a new one. Should be here any day now. Weird. But customer service is great with Spike, so no worries.

I intentionally didn't pick up the leg extensions from Spike when I placed the initial order. I wanted to see how much clearance I had in my upright freezer, and how much clearance I needed with the YB. When I set it all up it looked like I needed the 18" extensions, but when I went to buy, Spike is sold out. So I made my own out of some scrap wood I had lying around. Ended up working out fine.

I brewed a Wee Heavy yesterday for the inaugural brew on the CF5. My fermchamber is in a storage shed, but I eBIAB in my kitchen. So I had to find a way to get the wort from the kitchen to the storage shed/FC. My original plan was to fill the CF5 up in the kitchen then carry it (probably two people) to the storage shed, maybe 75 feet away. But the big "DO NOT LIFT WHEN FULL" printed on the handles of the CF5 gave me some trepidation, so I decided not to do that. My backup plan was to put the CF5 in the FC, sanitize a bucket, carry the wort and dump it in the top of the CF5. But with the "leg extension" I don't have much clearance in the FC to do that. 75 feet of tubing to pump it in is a little excessive, so I opted against that. My second back up plan was to sanitize and fill a keg, then do a gravity transfer into the CF5. Again, with the leg extensions, I didn't have enough ceiling clearance in the shed to get it above the fill like on the CF5, so that idea got scrapped.

In the end I did a pressure transfer from the keg to the CF5, in through the racking port. I had to make two trips (5.5 gallons won't fit in my 5 gallon keg), which wasn't particularly enjoyable, but it worked. The tubing on the pressure transfer kit ended up leaking though. Wort dripped all over the FC, and CO2 was leaking out the other hose. I don't have any experience using the crimp style tube closures that came with the pressure transfer kit, so I wasn't able to close it off just yet. Plus at this point I was just tired, so let it leak a little while it transferred in.

I was tired and frustrated at this point (nothing against the CF5, just a long day at this point). I wasn't used to "pressure transferring from the bottom up." To add insult to injury, I forgot to depressurize the keg when done, and when I went to disconnect the pressure transfer hose from the racking arm, the pressure was released spraying me in the face (and whatever part of the FC that didn't have wort in it at this point) with 1.099 SG wort. Looks like I might need practice to get the pressure transfer in down.

Let it sit overnight, then dumped the trub this morning before pitching the yeast. I should have gone with a larger YB though, as the 2" YB only fits about 25-33% of a quart when full. So I had to do about 4 dumps to get most of the trub out.

Very long story short, I'll be reaching out to Spike to see if they can help me seal up the pressure transfer kit. But in the meantime, anyone have any solutions to transfer the wort from the kettle to the CF5 that works with my limitations? Just get better at pressure transferring? Say screw it and lift it when full? Or use a pump instead?

I have to lift my full cf5 from the floor up to my cart. 4 feet up. Not a big deal, but hard by one's self.
To answer your question:
#1- If you have a second person to help you carry the full cf5 from your kitchen to your ferm chamber. Do not use handles! This will be awkward.
#2- I was thinking about a Carboy carrier. Morebeer has a few models. You would have to set it in place before you transfer, and it will still be a long walk by yourself, but might be worth it. May need to cut holes for the legs? Please let me know if you try it and if it works!

https://www.morebeer.com/products/carboy-carrier-65-gal.html

 

[TheMadKing]

Inbetween the hose and the swivel nut. Right where the clamp is.

New video by Justin Kay

For the gas post, it's also leaking a little bit at the swivel nut connection to the QD. Normally I'd disassemble and wrap with PFTE tape and wrench it back on, but considering the leak at the hose itself was 10x larger, I didn't bother here.



I thought about that, but the fittings wouldn't have worked out for what I have right now. Or at least, not ideal.

Transferring from a keg to the conical, I'd need a QD to TC threaded connection. The only one I had was the 1.5" one that came with the pressure transfer kit. The 2" TC to 1/2" barb fitting I have for the bottom wouldn't be able to connect to a keg. So I'd either have to buy a 2"TC to 1.5"TC reducer and use the pressure transfer kit fitting, buy a 2"TC threaded connection, or use the 2"TC to 1/2" barb and use a pump in order to fill from the bottom.

But that may be a viable solution in the future. I'm not opposed to getting another fitting if it makes my life easier. Just didn't have it yesterday.

Sounds like you either have too large of tubing for your hose barb or you overtightend your hose clamp and cut into the tubing. What size tubing are you using?

flare connections don't need PTFE tape, so something is wrong if it's leaking gas at the swivel nut connection. I can make mine leak tight just with my fingers and no wrench.

Edit - If your brew setup is fixed for the long term, you might consider a pulley system, or trolly for moving wort out to the shed. You should be able to do a 3-point pick on the CF5 with a sling under each leg to a single point at the top that holds it level, and then you could hook it up to a rope or cable and just fly it out to the shed.

 

[eric19312]

@specialkayme

A couple ideas.

You mentioned your leg extensions are homemade. Can you shorten them? In a standup fridge or freezer the Spike shorty extensions are pretty comfortable. If you can cut off a few inches maybe you can gravity transfer.

Second option would be a pump. I pump from my brewstand about 10 feet to my conical but in your situation I'd probably get one of those little pumps that you mount to the kettle, carry the kettle to the fermentor and pump it into the conical.

You will want to figure out pressure transfers for when you get to kegging but pushing the beer into the fermentor with gas sounds like doing this the hard way. Also when you start making hoppy beers you will start clogging poppets and that is going to get old fast.

 

[specialkayme]

#1- If you have a second person to help you carry the full cf5 from your kitchen to your ferm chamber. Do not use handles! This will be awkward.

I'm not sure I understand. Why would not using the handles be less akward than using the handles? If you don't use the handles, how would you pick it up with two people?

#2- I was thinking about a Carboy carrier. Morebeer has a few models. You would have to set it in place before you transfer, and it will still be a long walk by yourself, but might be worth it. May need to cut holes for the legs? Please let me know if you try it and if it works!

https://www.morebeer.com/products/carboy-carrier-65-gal.html

Why not use the kind with the straps? Carboy Carrier - Brew Hauler | MoreBeer No need to cut anything. Don't know if it would fit though.

 

[Nate R]

I'm not sure I understand. Why would not using the handles be less akward than using the handles? If you don't use the handles, how would you pick it up with two people?



Why not use the kind with the straps? Carboy Carrier - Brew Hauler | MoreBeer No need to cut anything. Don't know if it would fit though.

You cannot use the handles when full. Don;t try it. If you have two people, it is less awkward and easier to carry. You can grab it right by the legs under the main body. The weight is cut in half per person, right?

For the carrier- sure, anyone would work i think. The reviews on one of them was kinda poor, though- so be aware. I am not sure if the cf5 is too wide for a standard carrier?

eric had a good idea above- just carry your bk to the ferm chamber? Although if you biab, that may be tough, too

 

[specialkayme]

Sounds like you either have too large of tubing for your hose barb or you overtightend your hose clamp and cut into the tubing. What size tubing are you using?

Whatever came with the Spike kit. I didn't change a thing, just took it out of the box and sanitized it.

https://spikebrewing.com/collections/conical-accessories/products/closed-pressure-transfer-kit

Edit - If your brew setup is fixed for the long term, you might consider a pulley system, or trolly for moving wort out to the shed. You should be able to do a 3-point pick on the CF5 with a sling under each leg to a single point at the top that holds it level, and then you could hook it up to a rope or cable and just fly it out to the shed.

I'm not sure this is feasible. I'd have to travel 1. over ~20 feet of hardwood floors (not the problem), 2. over the front door threshold, 3. Down 4 brick steps, 4. down ~60 feet of concrete driveway, 5. Across ~6 inches of mulch, 6. Up a 1 foot step into the shed, 7. over 10 feet of shed floor, then 8. up into the upright freezer.

I'd have to build an all terrain handtruck with a lift incorporated. Seems overly complicated.

 

[specialkayme]

You mentioned your leg extensions are homemade. Can you shorten them?

Not while still being able to use the YB in a vertical position and getting a mason jar under it to dump into.

Second option would be a pump.

I already own a riptide, so if I have to use it I can. But I can't find a way that makes sense to use it:

1. Get 75 feet of tubing to pump direct from the kettle to the fermenter. Doesn't really make sense (although possible).
2. Move the kettle to the shed, then pump. It's a 15gal Spike kettle. Moving it full would probably be as heavy as the CF5 full. Plus I can't seal it closed while moving it, so probably splashing wort out of it in the process.
3. Move the fermenter to the kettle, but at that point I wouldn't need to pump anything. But still moving a full CF5.
4. Keep the CF5 in the shed. Move the riptide into the shed. Empty the wort from the kettle to a 6.5gal bucket with a bottom drain perhaps. Carry the bucket to the shed, then pump from the bucket to the fermenter.

Last one seems most feasible, but I don't know what fittings I'd need. The riptide is TC fitted, and I've never seen a TC fitted bucket . . . . so yeah . . .

Also when you start making hoppy beers you will start clogging poppets and that is going to get old fast.

Good point.[/QUOTE]

 

[FswBG]

You could always split the 5+ gallons between the BK and a sanitized bucket. That way you're only carrying 2.5/3 gal at a time. Pouring back into the BK once at the CF5 so you can use a pump. It might make it more manageable?

 

[specialkayme]

You can grab it right by the legs under the main body. The weight is cut in half per person, right?

With three legs and four hands . . . so I grab one leg, other person grabs another leg, and we both hold hands on the third leg? Seems possible, just really awkward. One set of hands would be higher than the other, and just weird.

eric had a good idea above- just carry your bk to the ferm chamber? Although if you biab, that may be tough, too

I think I'd be better off carrying the CF5 than the kettle. It's heavy, and bulkier than the CF5. Plus, again, no way to close the lid while moving it.

 

[Nate R]

With three legs and four hands . . . so I grab one leg, other person grabs another leg, and we both hold hands on the third leg? Seems possible, just really awkward. One set of hands would be higher than the other, and just weird.



I think I'd be better off carrying the CF5 than the kettle. It's heavy, and bulkier than the CF5. Plus, again, no way to close the lid while moving it.

Oh yeah- see i use my friend crazy Tom. He's got three hands and one leg. So, although he has to hop along, that fifth hand helps steady the top. Do you have any three handed friends that will help you brew?

Honestly man- no offense here- seems like you are either over-thinking this or just don't want any help? Two people carrying the cf5 FULL is super easy. One grabs high, one grabs low, and you go. Is it easy? No- but it is easier than just you carrying it or rolling it.

Here is what I say you do:
Move the ferm chamber inside! In the kitchen! Then, you can just brew & ferment all in one space. Or, get a cooling coil and use that instead of your ferm chamber. All of this is more money, and you may not have space, either.

 

[eric19312]

Yeah I don't have that yeast brink to deal with. TBH I just don't see the reason for it and seems to create more problems than is solves.

 

[specialkayme]

Honestly man- no offense here- seems like you are either over-thinking this or just don't want any help? Two people carrying the cf5 FULL is super easy. One grabs high, one grabs low, and you go. Is it easy? No- but it is easier than just you carrying it or rolling it.

No worries man, I think there was a miscommunication here. I was always saying moving the fermenter full with two people was possible. I was just asking about your statement that using the handles is more akward than not using the handles. Just trying to understand what you meant. But whatever, let it roll.

Here is what I say you do:
Move the ferm chamber inside! In the kitchen! Then, you can just brew & ferment all in one space. Or, get a cooling coil and use that instead of your ferm chamber. All of this is more money, and you may not have space, either.

I'd love to, but can't. Deal I have with significant other is the fermentation happens in the shed. Easy compromise for me. But eBIAB requires 210v, which doesn't exist in the shed. So I brew in the kitchen. If we move, next house may be different.

So cooling coil or glycol, doesn't matter, won't solve the problem. Kettle is in one space, fermenter is in another. Can't ferment where I brew, and can't brew where I ferment.

I guess I could pay a couple hundred dollars to have an electrician wire up the shed for 210v power and brew there. But I don't think the shed is permitted originally, so I'm probably opening up a can of worms there (which may cost me a few thousand dollars to fix in the end).

 

[Nate R]

No worries man, I think there was a miscommunication here. I was always saying moving the fermenter full with two people was possible. I was just asking about your statement that using the handles is more akward than not using the handles. Just trying to understand what you meant. But whatever, let it roll.



I'd love to, but can't. Deal I have with significant other is the fermentation happens in the shed. Easy compromise for me. But eBIAB requires 210v, which doesn't exist in the shed. So I brew in the kitchen. If we move, next house may be different.

So cooling coil or glycol, doesn't matter, won't solve the problem. Kettle is in one space, fermenter is in another. Can't ferment where I brew, and can't brew where I ferment.

I guess I could pay a couple hundred dollars to have an electrician wire up the shed for 210v power and brew there. But I don't think the shed is permitted originally, so I'm probably opening up a can of worms there (which may cost me a few thousand dollars to fix in the end).

How about a 100' 240 extension cord? My father in law has one for his RV. Wal mart or amazon?
Then you can brew in the shed?
That too may be another can of worms tho.

 

[specialkayme]

How about a 100' 240 extension cord?

Didn't think of that. That could work. With the fittings I have, I'd probably be better off making my own extension cord from parts from BrewHardware.

It would probably end up running me about $175 for the extension cord. Slightly cheaper (and probably more practical) than getting a 100' roll of tubing to pump direct to the shed.

Something to think about.

 

[TheMadKing]

Whatever came with the Spike kit. I didn't change a thing, just took it out of the box and sanitized it.

https://spikebrewing.com/collections/conical-accessories/products/closed-pressure-transfer-kit


I'm not sure this is feasible. I'd have to travel 1. over ~20 feet of hardwood floors (not the problem), 2. over the front door threshold, 3. Down 4 brick steps, 4. down ~60 feet of concrete driveway, 5. Across ~6 inches of mulch, 6. Up a 1 foot step into the shed, 7. over 10 feet of shed floor, then 8. up into the upright freezer.

I'd have to build an all terrain handtruck with a lift incorporated. Seems overly complicated.

Sounds like your pressure transfer kit is defective, it shouldn't leak like that out of the box at all.


Sorry I guess I wasn't very clear

I was suggesting a zipline type setup to eliminate all those obstacles you mentioned. A cable strung between your shed and your house with a zipline trolly and a lifting rig and just pulley it over

Other solutions: get a new SO (kidding)

 

[specialkayme]

Sounds like your pressure transfer kit is defective, it shouldn't leak like that out of the box at all.

Wasn't sure if I was being hypercritical of Spike. But good to know it isn't a "tweaking" issue.

I emailed Spike on it, so I'm sure they'll make it right.

I was suggesting a zipline type setup to eliminate all those obstacles you mentioned. A cable strung between your shed and your house with a zipline trolly and a lifting rig and just pulley it over

Oh, haha, ok. That'd be neat. But yeah, still not very practical. After setting up the zipline and anchoring it to support the weight, I'd be better off holding hands with Nate's friend crazy Tom.

All kidding aside, I do appreciate the help. Sorry to seem difficult.

Long term - a different house would probably be the best solution with a dedicated brew space. Assuming I don't want to spend a few tens of thousands of dollars to fix the issue, the more moderate long term solution would probably be either a 100' extension cord, or 100' of tubing. Aside from that, carrying the CF5 is probably the best solution. I was just avoiding it after reading 45 pages of everyone saying not to do it.

Although I'm still thinking over that bucket idea. Maybe take a 6.5g bucket, drill a hole in the bottom, fit a 1.5"TC fitting to it, carry the bucket to the shed and pump into the CF5? Maybe something to think about. . . .

 

[Vale71]

I was just asking about your statement that using the handles is more akward than not using the handles.

I think the awkward part would be when the handles come off and you've ruined your CF5...

 

[eric19312]

https://www.harborfreight.com/700-lb-capacity-bigfoot-hand-truck-62900.html
and a strap.

 

[Nate R]

[QUOTE="specialkayme, post: 8894789, member: 212722"}
I'd love to, but can't. Deal I have with significant other is the fermentation happens in the shed. Easy compromise for me. But eBIAB requires 210v, which doesn't exist in the shed. So I brew in the kitchen. If we move, next house may be different.

So cooling coil or glycol, doesn't matter, won't solve the problem. Kettle is in one space, fermenter is in another. Can't ferment where I brew, and can't brew where I ferment.

I guess I could pay a couple hundred dollars to have an electrician wire up the shed for 210v power and brew there. But I don't think the shed is permitted originally, so I'm probably opening up a can of worms there (which may cost me a few thousand dollars to fix in the end).
[/QUOTE]
Or, maybe dust off the ole' Tinder Profile and get a new Significant Other? I'm just sayin'....

 

[specialkayme]

https://www.harborfreight.com/700-lb-capacity-bigfoot-hand-truck-62900.html
and a strap.

A good backup if a "two man lift" isn't feasible. Thanks.

 

[specialkayme]

You mentioned your leg extensions are homemade. Can you shorten them?

Here's what it looks like. More of a platform than leg extensions. But you get the idea.

Most of the beers I brew probably won't need the YB. I don't plan on harvesting much yeast (overbuilt starters just seems easier), but planned on using it mostly to add dry hops in an "O2-less" environment. So if I'm not dry hopping, I guess I could get away with just having a dump valve. If I don't need the YB, I guess I don't need the platform. So I could just pour through the top. In the instance I brew a beer that involves a DH charge, I could just lift that particular batch up on the platform.

I also could probably shorten the platform, then use two 90 degree elbows on the dump port, having the YB hang over the front. Less ideal, but still possible. Which would again allow me to just sanitize a keg or a bucket and pour in the top.

I guess a few things to think about between now and the next brew.

 

[CodeSection]

Finally got my sight glass in!

View attachment 682213
......

You already know my opinion on this set-up. Also, I do not know if you just do one dump and then start transferring the beer to a keg or start bottling. Thus, it would not matter about cleaning and sanitizing.

With that said, if you perform multiple trub/yeast dumps, while you may be removing the 90 degree elbow at the valve to clean and sanitize after each dump, it appears based on this picture it would be a PITA to clean and sanitize the butterfly valve after each trub/yeast dump.

It looks like it would really be awkward and hard to spray up in there without a mirror or laying on your back to see the total inside of the butterfly valve to make sure everything is cleaned and sanitized.....

 

[specialkayme]

Sounds like your pressure transfer kit is defective, it shouldn't leak like that out of the box at all.

Spike confirmed the pressure transfer kit was incorrectly assembled, which was a "very rare issue", and prepped a replacement for shipment.

A little frustrating that the PRV and pressure transfer kits ended up having issues with them, but still very happy with Spike's customer service. They didn't question a thing, and immediately sent replacement items. Another happy Spike Customer Service experieince.

 

[specialkayme]

With that said, if you perform multiple trub/yeast dumps, while you may be removing the 90 degree elbow at the valve to clean and sanitize after each dump, it appears based on this picture it would be a PITA to clean and sanitize the butterfly valve after each trub/yeast dump.

How necessary is it to "thoroughly" clean and sanitize the butterfly valve after each dump?

I flushed the valve with some clean water, then thoroughly sprayed with starsan. Didn't seem too bad to me. Probably about as good as the average person cleaning and sanitizing a butterfly valve on a conical. But I may be biased.

So what arrangement would you believe is better, given the restrictions I have?

 

[Yesfan]

You already know my opinion on this set-up. Also, I do not know if you just do one dump and then start transferring the beer to a keg or start bottling. Thus, it would not matter about cleaning and sanitizing.

With that said, if you perform multiple trub/yeast dumps, while you may be removing the 90 degree elbow at the valve to clean and sanitize after each dump, it appears based on this picture it would be a PITA to clean and sanitize the butterfly valve after each trub/yeast dump.

It looks like it would really be awkward and hard to spray up in there without a mirror or laying on your back to see the total inside of the butterfly valve to make sure everything is cleaned and sanitized.....

Good point. This isn't how I'm always going to do it. Next batch, I may move it back.

The last two batches, I did one dump before racking to my kegs. Probably do the same this go around since you made the point about sanitizing the butterfly valve.

 

[CodeSection]

How necessary is it to "thoroughly" clean and sanitize the butterfly valve after each dump?

I flushed the valve with some clean water, then thoroughly sprayed with starsan. Didn't seem too bad to me. Probably about as good as the average person cleaning and sanitizing a butterfly valve on a conical. But I may be biased.

So what arrangement would you believe is better, given the restrictions I have?

Washing and spraying with Starsan is perfect. Maybe the words washing/rinsing is a better description. However, when the butterfly valve is pointed down such as in @Yesfan's picture and as in your picture, how do you know you have thoroughly washed/rinsed and sanitized it without seeing the whole valve? Pictures are worth a 1000 words......

In your case, it seems impossible to inspect the bottom of the valve without some type of mirror. Trub/yeast sticks to the sides of the valve as well as to the butterfly gasket. Since your set-up is rather enclosed on the bottom, washing/rinsing and sanitizing appears to be challenging and may be incomplete. Plus, it is an enclosed area....

 

[Nate R]

Here's what it looks like. More of a platform than leg extensions. But you get the idea.

Most of the beers I brew probably won't need the YB. I don't plan on harvesting much yeast (overbuilt starters just seems easier), but planned on using it mostly to add dry hops in an "O2-less" environment. So if I'm not dry hopping, I guess I could get away with just having a dump valve. If I don't need the YB, I guess I don't need the platform. So I could just pour through the top. In the instance I brew a beer that involves a DH charge, I could just lift that particular batch up on the platform.

I also could probably shorten the platform, then use two 90 degree elbows on the dump port, having the YB hang over the front. Less ideal, but still possible. Which would again allow me to just sanitize a keg or a bucket and pour in the top.

I guess a few things to think about between now and the next brew.

"In the instance I brew a beer that involves a DH charge, I could just lift that particular batch up on the platform."

I do this EVERY brew-day on my 5 gallon cf5. Lift right up about 3 feet to my cart (which has my glycol chiller underneath). I can do it alone- grab the side and a handle- and it is doable. Not fun, but does not kill my back. I can recommend this way. WAY easier than carrying 75 feet. And way less expensive.
Also- I like your DIY solution for the legs- clever.

 

[CodeSection]

....So what arrangement would you believe is better, given the restrictions I have?

Consider using the 90 degree elbow that came with the CF5 and buy an extra one. The dump butterfly valve is attached to the first 90 degree elbow. Now, you clearly have better access and view to properly wash/rinse and sanitize the valve after each use. Then, when you need to inject the hops using the YB, attach the other 90 degree valve to butterfly valve and then the YB to the other end of the 90 degree elbow.

Since you custom assembled your stand, you may have to slightly rotate it so the door can close.....should be no big deal.

 

[specialkayme]

In your case, it seems impossible to inspect the bottom of the valve without some type of mirror. Trub/yeast sticks to the sides of the valve as well as to the butterfly gasket. Since your set-up is rather enclosed on the bottom, washing/rinsing and sanitizing appears to be challenging and may be incomplete. Plus, it is an enclosed area....

Seems pretty rare for it to be an issue. Assuming you properly clean the butterfly valve before you put wort in the conical, and that the wort is sterilized, the act of dumping the trub/yeast isn't introducing an infection. Rinse and starsan, followed by a dust cover, and you should be able to resolve 99% of the issues, even if some left over trub is left in a corner of the butterfly valve.

I highly doubt most people are visually inspecting the butterfly valve on the racking port (especially at a 45 degree angle), or thoroughly cleaning the sample port after each sample (other than spraying with star san before and after). Not much of an issue with those, so I don't see why this is a big problem.

At least, a risk I feel comfortable taking, YMMV.

 

[specialkayme]

"In the instance I brew a beer that involves a DH charge, I could just lift that particular batch up on the platform."

I do this EVERY brew-day on my 5 gallon cf5.

Well then that might be the best solution. Put the CF5 empty on the floor, pour in the lid, seal up, lift up on the stand. Done.

Thanks.

I'm going to have to work on my lifting form though

Also- I like your DIY solution for the legs- clever.

Thanks. Some scrap wood lying around. Plus, it's Advantec, so moisture won't cause it to break down (well, as fast I guess).

 

[itsnotrequired]

Seems pretty rare for it to be an issue. Assuming you properly clean the butterfly valve before you put wort in the conical, and that the wort is sterilized, the act of dumping the trub/yeast isn't introducing an infection. Rinse and starsan, followed by a dust cover, and you should be able to resolve 99% of the issues, even if some left over trub is left in a corner of the butterfly valve.

I highly doubt most people are visually inspecting the butterfly valve on the racking port (especially at a 45 degree angle), or thoroughly cleaning the sample port after each sample (other than spraying with star san before and after). Not much of an issue with those, so I don't see why this is a big problem.

At least, a risk I feel comfortable taking, YMMV.

my setup from top down is conical, sight glass, butterfly valve. i have the extension legs and after a dump, place a bucket under the valve, point the starsan spray bottle up and blast the closed valve surface. i angle it a few different directions to get it from all sides, no problems so far. no dust covers.

same deal with the sample valve. i spray it from a couple angles on the outside and then point the nozzle into the barbed fitting and give it a blast. after sample, repeat the process but with two blasts into the barbed fitting.

 

[eric19312]

I thought point of a sanitary sample valve is no need to sanitize after using. At least from perspective of potentially contaminating the beer in the fermentor. I really don't care if the sample gets contaminated.

 

[itsnotrequired]

I thought point of a sanitary sample valve is no need to sanitize after using. At least from perspective of potentially contaminating the beer in the fermentor. I really don't care if the sample gets contaminated.

i'm doing it more to just get the wort out of the fitting, so it does dry out and gum something up. sanitizer is handy, might as well use it...