Source for organic Maris Otter?

[Jcruse]

As I start brewing for myself, I really want to start focusing on creating great organic beers (pretty hard to find...even went to the Organic Beer Festival in Portland this last spring/summer and was pretty disappointed in the beers).

My LHBS has lots of organic malts, but not Maris Otter. I've also been able to find most varieties of hops in organic form. In all my web searching, I haven't been able to find a source for organic Maris Otter. I found some references to a bulk buy near Chicago in 2009....but nothing else. Warminster malters is a certified organic malter, and they have a floor-malted Maris Otter, but the grain itself isn't organic.

Anyone got any leads on some organic Maris Otter?

 

[gag]

I have been doing the all organic approach to brewing too. Glad to see I'm not alone! My LHBS owner is a foodie... I am too... He told me not to worry about it because Marris Otter is an import... The theory goes that everyone else has higher standards when it comes to pesticide use than the US.

Hope this answers your question!

 

[DromJohn]

This is a tough issue and one that, as an organic as a substitute when I can find it homebrewer, I have decided to punt.

Part of the problem is the definition of "organic."
In North America, what gets called "organic" usually means inspection from federal, state officials and some organizations. There are several layers for organic: no direct pesticides, no indirect pesticides, no irradiation, no genetic modifications; with varying levels of farming/manufacturing to get to labelled as organic. For the most part "organic" is limited to certified North American products.

OTOH, my understanding is that all New Zealand products are top shelf organic, therefore they don't bother to market as organic.

Also, most of the EU products meet at least the lowest levels of North American organic standards. Therefore many EU products don't bother getting certified as organic. Those that do, Dingemann and Weyermann, seem to only certify malts that have an organic North American counterpart (Briess, Gambrinus, Great Western).

Maris Otter with only UK maltsters, doesn't certify. IMO, Maris Otter is probably organic enough for organic brewers. "Organic enough" means I believe there is a high probability that Maris Otter is as organic as a North American organic malt, but I cannot prove it.

 

[Jcruse]

Thanks for the info, guys.

That eases my mind quite a bit for creating beer for my own personal consumption.

But, if a brewery (don't we all have dreams of going pro/commercial?) were to use Maris Otter sourced from the EU, would they be able to certify their beer as organic? I would assume "no", because the ingredients weren't all labeled organic. However, I've also read that certified organic beers don't even have to use organic hops, because they're "hard to source", and the organic certifiers make exceptions for hard-to-source ingredients!

The more I read about it, the more the whole "organic" label sounds like a boon-doggle, but how else can you ensure you're not eating/drinking large quantities of pesticides?

 

[DavidJP]

My understanding is that Maris Otter is owned by I think Robin Appel, a seed merchant. So its grown under contract from his organisation, I've read that it comes with quite specific growing conditions, one of which is low use of nitrogen fertiliser, as they want to keep it low in protein. So probably more organic but I doubt it is organically grown in any conventional sense of the word. I think he does have a website so you could contact him and ask if any maris is grown organically, I'm sure some probably is.

 

[JKaranka]

I would assume is less disease resistant than more modern varieties of barley and therefore less likely to be used as a first choice for organic barley farming. That said, I wouldn't expect British barleys to have anything particularly dodgy in them.

 

[DavidJP]

I think the main thing was the much reduced yields compared to more modern varieties but maybe the disease resistance as well I don't know. Its not that old mid 1960's I think it was developed.

Here's the website of the owner of Maris Otter

http://www.robin-appel.com/product/maris-otter-50/

Has an email probably the quickest way to work out who the organic growers are would be to email him. He should know, as far as i know every grower has to sign a contract with him.

Yields apparently are in the order of 6-7 tonnes per hectare as opposed to 10 for other varieties. Looks like you were right about the disease resistance, going by this quote in the farmers guardian

"Because of Otter’s susceptibility to mildew and rhynchosporium, we applied a fairly robust fungicide programme, involving Helix (prothioconazole+spiroxamine), Swift (trifloxystrobin) and Fandango (fluoxastrobin+prothioconazole)."

http://www.farmersguardian.com/home...hes-for-larger-maris-otter-crop/33294.article

 

[gag]

Well ****.

 

[Microscopist]

Warminster maltings in the UK do produce organic maris otter, so it's around but I've never seen it at the retail end - mind you I never really looked once i found a source for it in any form

 

[JKaranka]

I know Warminster do produce an organic range but I thought it was Quench Spring barley (an Optic replacement, I believe).

 

[DavidJP]

Looks like they do, though sourcing it in the US may be problematic

"Warminster Maltings is one of only three UK maltsters with Organic certification. Crops of Spring barley and Maris Otter are contracted annually with established Organic growers with a track record of delivery."


http://www.warminster-malt.co.uk/raw-materials/

I'd suggest the owner of maris otter may know if there are distributers of organic maris otter in the US