Sour turned to vinegar..why?

[ChuBru]

So i brewed a dawson's kriek april of last year and i took a sample about a month ago and it tasted like sweat sock champagne...i was just getting ready to add cherries and i relized i have 5 gallons of vinegar...i had hardly any head space...did not open the fermenter unless taking a sample...what could have cause the acetobacter to go crazy?..sours can give you the blues

 

[BryanThompson]

Did the airlock ever go dry? Also were there any dead fruit flies in the airlock? Either of those can cause acetic acid to form. I have had vinegar form even without oxygen.

 

[blizzard]

What kind of vessel was it in and how confident are you that the airlock stopper had a good seal?

 

[johnsnownw]

Yes, what were you fermenting in? Also, check this out...though I'm not sure any allow enough O2 to create vinegar:

http://www.mocon.com/pdf/optech/Closures - Oxygen Passage Study.pdf

 

[ChuBru]

I fermented in a glass carboy and used a silicone vented stopper but i also rubber banded some cling wrap over it in hopes of avoiding/limiting acetobacter to no avail

 

[johnsnownw]

I fermented in a glass carboy and used a silicone vented stopper but i also rubber banded some cling wrap over it in hopes of avoiding/limiting acetobacter to no avail

If you look at the study I posted, silicone is one of the worst materials you can use to mitigate O2 permeability.

That may very well have been your issue, or at least a contributing factor.

 

[ChuBru]

OH DAMN...thats it then, i thought it was designed for long term storage..Im gonna restart this again in a few days...let me ask you, how important is temp control for sours?..Im assuming that in the beginning treat it like a normal beer and control temps but once the sacch has finished its job and the bugs take over temp is less of an issue..correct?

 

[johnsnownw]

OH DAMN...thats it then, i thought it was designed for long term storage..Im gonna restart this again in a few days...let me ask you, how important is temp control for sours?..Im assuming that in the beginning treat it like a normal beer and control temps but once the sacch has finished its job and the bugs take over temp is less of an issue..correct?

I honestly don't know enough about sours to answer that question with certainty. However, that's my understanding.

 

[Thorpe429]

OH DAMN...thats it then, i thought it was designed for long term storage..Im gonna restart this again in a few days...let me ask you, how important is temp control for sours?..Im assuming that in the beginning treat it like a normal beer and control temps but once the sacch has finished its job and the bugs take over temp is less of an issue..correct?

Temperature is a little bit less of an issue, but I've heard many brewers report that they get better results and much less, if any, acetic acid when keeping the beer at temperatures down in the low 60s. I've had good experience keeping all sours around 65 or so in my basement.

 

[ChuBru]

Well thank you very much everyone time to try again but for now it looks like i got myself 5 gallons of salad dressing hahaha

 

[nohbudi]

If you look at the study I posted, silicone is one of the worst materials you can use to mitigate O2 permeability.

That may very well have been your issue, or at least a contributing factor.

I'm not actually convinced that the article suggested that silicone is inherently bad. The implication appeared to be that a commonly available stopper made of silicone provided a bad seal. This can be caused by a large variety of reasons, and I suspect the main culprit is surface quality.

*** Upon finishing the article... I stand corrected***

 

[medley]

Temperature stability once the bugs take over is less important than it is during the primary fermentation. As long as the temperature shifts over time like with changing seasons and not on a daily basis like day and night. The temperature should still stay above 60f and below 80f. At higher temps the bugs will finish faster but the result most likely wont be as developed and tasty as fermenting at the lower range.

 

[Stiltzkin]

I think high temperature is more likely to be the cause than excess O2 through the stopper. Especially if you say there was minimal head space.

 

[bovineblitz]

Wanted to revive this to ask... looking at the posted study, is the best solution to keeping air out using a non-drilled rubber stopper? I've kept all my sours with topped off airlocks, but it would appear that plenty of O2 gets in through them. Completely sealing the container though would lead to pressure buildup.

Thoughts?

 

[TriggerFingers]

Well thank you very much everyone time to try again but for now it looks like i got myself 5 gallons of salad dressing hahaha

Now you have Christmas presents for family, friends, and neighbors =)

 

[johnsnownw]

Wanted to revive this to ask... looking at the posted study, is the best solution to keeping air out using a non-drilled rubber stopper? I've kept all my sours with topped off airlocks, but it would appear that plenty of O2 gets in through them. Completely sealing the container though would lead to pressure buildup.

Thoughts?

If you're using BB's, the study showed that the dry-tap airlock system is by far superior to any other "open" system...and you wouldn't have to worry about pressure.

For glass, the 3-piece airlock is best for an open system.

If you've got active fermentation going on, then I wouldn't recommend using a solid bung.