So I don't screw this up...

[Silhou3tt3]

Alright, so I'm going to be doing my first BIAB soon. At first it started with a recipe but my LHBS didn't have the exact grains so I ballparked it. The ingredients are as follows:

Crisp Marris Otter 5lbs
Briess Caramel 120L .5lbs
Muntons Crystal 60L 1lb
Briess Chocolate Malt 1.025lbs

My kettle is 7.5 gallons and I'm not sure if it can handle the grain bill as-is. I'm looking to make a brown ale of some sort. The yeast I will be using is Wyeast 1272 American II.

I have 1oz of each hop available: Citra, Amarillo, US Northern Brewer and Willamette. I also have .5 oz German Tradition.

I'm willing to try anything and any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

 

[1977Brewer]

Is this a 5 gallon batch?

 

[Silhou3tt3]

Yeah, sorry, forgot to mention that. It will be a 5 gallon batch.

 

[kh54s10]

How big is this batch? At 5 gallons it is only about 1.038. The color is good. If it is a 3 gallon batch you have too much chocolate.

There is a thread somewhere here that tells how much you can brew in what sized pot. Do a search on how big a pot for BIAB. You might need to word the search differently to find it.

7.5 gallon pot is just bit enough for a 5 gallon batch. You might need to do a sparge to get the right volume.

 

[Silhou3tt3]

How big is this batch? At 5 gallons it is only about 1.038. The color is good. If it is a 3 gallon batch you have too much chocolate.

There is a thread somewhere here that tells how much you can brew in what sized pot. Do a search on how big a pot for BIAB. You might need to word the search differently to find it.

7.5 gallon pot is just bit enough for a 5 gallon batch. You might need to do a sparge to get the right volume.

Yeah, sorry, it is a 5 gallon batch.

 

[m00ps]

I think you need to make some changes ot the specialty malts. You've got a whopping 33% specialty malts there. I usually go by a rule of thumb to rarely exceed 20%. And I only get close to 20% for like sweet stouts. Or you can adjust differently if you want the color from the chocolate. But that is just waaaay too much crystal for even a sweet stout...

What are you going for here? A hoppy porter? The 1lb of chocolate ewill definitely steer it into porter territory, but some of those hops you mentioned would be more at home in an IPA. If you're going for a porter-like beer, the 1 oz northern brewer and willamette would work great

 

[chickypad]

I'm with m00ps, I think you can about halve your specialty malts. How about something like below for a brown ale. This is for 75% efficiency and just what I had for defaults in BS for AA%'s so you may need to adjust for your own.

Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 25.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.6 IBUs


8 lbs Maris Otter 85.3 %
10.0 oz Crystal 60 6.7 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt 5.3 %
4.0 oz Caramel 120L (Briess) 2.7 %
0.75 oz Northern Brewer [8.75 %] 60 min 26.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] 5 min 4.4 IBUs

 

[DurtyChemist]

For a first batch I would go with an established recipe so you can get close to a beer you want. Seems like a lot of costal malt and it would be a really sweet beer but it's your choice. I'd just suggest a SMaSH because you could make something like a Belgian golden/triple and have a great beer and focus on the process. It's hella easy

 

[Silhou3tt3]

I think you need to make some changes ot the specialty malts. You've got a whopping 33% specialty malts there. I usually go by a rule of thumb to rarely exceed 20%. And I only get close to 20% for like sweet stouts. Or you can adjust differently if you want the color from the chocolate. But that is just waaaay too much crystal for even a sweet stout...

What are you going for here? A hoppy porter? The 1lb of chocolate ewill definitely steer it into porter territory, but some of those hops you mentioned would be more at home in an IPA. If you're going for a porter-like beer, the 1 oz northern brewer and willamette would work great

All I had in mind at this point is "brown ale"; I'm up for trying just about anything. Hopefully something with some hop presence but nothing crazy. Ideally I'd end up with a nice mouth feel that is a bit malty, a tiny bit sweet and ending with a chocolatey/toffee note. Not sure what that falls under.

I'm with m00ps, I think you can about halve your specialty malts. How about something like below for a brown ale. This is for 75% efficiency and just what I had for defaults in BS for AA%'s so you may need to adjust for your own.

Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 25.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.6 IBUs


8 lbs Maris Otter 85.3 %
10.0 oz Crystal 60 6.7 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt 5.3 %
4.0 oz Caramel 120L (Briess) 2.7 %
0.75 oz Northern Brewer [8.75 %] 60 min 26.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Willamette [5.50 %] 5 min 4.4 IBUs

I'll give that a shot. I knew I was going to have issues with using all the grains I had. lol

I milled the grains close to a month ago (was planning on brewing sooner but ended up freezing my yeast....). Anyone know how long they keep once milled?

 

[Silhou3tt3]

For a first batch I would go with an established recipe so you can get close to a beer you want. Seems like a lot of costal malt and it would be a really sweet beer but it's your choice. I'd just suggest a SMaSH because you could make something like a Belgian golden/triple and have a great beer and focus on the process. It's hella easy

I will probably try something like this next time. I started with a recipe but ended up having to guess (and apparently wrong) what grains to use.

 

[m00ps]

All I had in mind at this point is "brown ale"; I'm up for trying just about anything. Hopefully something with some hop presence but nothing crazy. Ideally I'd end up with a nice mouth feel that is a bit malty, a tiny bit sweet and ending with a chocolatey/toffee note. Not sure what that falls under.




I'll give that a shot. I knew I was going to have issues with using all the grains I had. lol

I milled the grains close to a month ago (was planning on brewing sooner but ended up freezing my yeast....). Anyone know how long they keep once milled?

If you've had the grains in a sealed container, you should be fine. Even if it wasn't sealed, you just might want to add a bit extra to account for any degradation of the grains

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Will it fit...yes but here is a good calculator for that...
http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I was bored so I entered this into BeerSmith for you. You have enough grain for a nice 3 gallon batch...
American Brown Ale (10 C)
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 3.00 gal
Boil Size: 4.25 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 3.25 gal (leave about a quart of trub in the pot)
Fermentor Volume: 3 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 2.75 gal (leave about a quart of yeast in the carboy)

Brewer: Silhou3tt3
Asst Brewer: Bigdaddybrew
Equipment: Pot (7.5 gallons) - BIAB
Efficiency: 60.00 %

Ingredients:
5 lbsPale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
8.0 ozCaramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)
8.0 ozCaramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)
4.0 ozChocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
1.00 ozNorthern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min
1.00 ozAmarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.5 %
Bitterness: 28.3 IBUs
Est Color: 24.5 SRM

Mash Profile
Mash Name: BIAB, Medium Body
Saccharification: Heat 20.5 qts of water to 158 F to mash at152 F for 60 min
Mash Notes: Brew in a bag method where the full boil volume is mashed within the boil vessel and then the grains are withdrawn at the end of the mash. No active sparging is required. This is a medium body beer profile.

Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Bottle
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F
Fermentation: Ale
Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Bottle with 2.16 oz Corn Sugar
Age for: 21.00 days
Storage Temperature: 70.0 F

Created with BeerSmith

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Here's what I would do for 5 gallons. Brown Ale recipes are very diverse...
American Brown Ale (10 C)
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.25gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 5.25 gal (leave about a quart of trub in the pot)
Fermentor Volume: 5 gallons
Final Bottling Vol: 4.75 gal (leave about a quart of yeast in the carboy)
Fermentation: Ale

Brewer: Silhou3tt3
Asst Brewer: Bigdaddybrew
Equipment: Pot (7.5gallons) - BIAB
Efficiency: 62.00 %

Ingredients:
10 lbsPale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
1 lbsCaramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)
8.0 ozCaramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)
8.0 ozChocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
1.00 ozNorthern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 35.0 min
1.00 ozAmarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min

Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.2 %
Bitterness: 27.0 IBUs
Est Color: 25.3 SRM

Mash Profile
Mash Name: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 12 lbs
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F

Saccharification: Heat 24 qts of water to 162F to mash at 152F for 60 min (6.9 gallons of mash).
Then remove/drain grains and add 7.5 qts to get full boil volume of about 6.25 gallons.
Mash Notes: Brew in a bag method

Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Bottle
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 70.0 F
Fermentation: Ale
Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Bottle with 3.73 oz Corn Sugar
Age for: 21.00 days
Storage Temperature: 70.0 F
Created with BeerSmith

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I used 60% efficiency for a full or nearly full volume mash and for simply lifting and draining the bag. No squeezing or rinsing of the grains. These techniques will increase efficiency and raise the wort gravity but some say it might also increase tannins. I just lift up the bag and hold it over the pot until my arms are tired.

 

[Silhou3tt3]

I used 60% efficiency for a full or nearly full volume mash and for simply lifting and draining the bag. No squeezing or rinsing of the grains. These techniques will increase efficiency and raise the wort gravity but some say it might also increase tannins. I just lift up the bag and hold it over the pot until my arms are tired.

Sweet! Thanks for doing that, man. I appreciate it. I will likely be near my LHBS some time this week so I can snag the rest of the grains for the 5 gallon batch.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

If you have any questions let me know.

 

[Silhou3tt3]

Is there typically more trub with a BIAB than an extract with steeping grains? I've got my extract brewing methods dialed in to where I haven't had to leave any wort behind for a few batches now. Is that something that I can expect to have change with the increase in grains?

As for the 2 step sparge that it shows...is that just what you were saying with lifting and draining or is it where I would ladle water onto the bag once it is out over the pot?

Also, thanks again for everyone's input.

Edit: Apparently it took me half an age to write this last post.

If you have any questions let me know.

Will do. Thank you again!

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Yes there will be more trub. You can add it to the fermentor but then you will have more yeast\trub to avoid at bottling so it is about the same either way except you get a little more beer at bottling if you leave it in the pot. I would recommend adding 1 teaspoon of Irish Moss for the last 15 minutes of the boil. to help create a "hot break". It is not required but helps remove proteins while boiling.

You can rinse the grains to increase efficiency and the original gravity. As you said it was your first BIAB I figured it is easier to just drain and then add the extra needed water to the pot but if you have a way to suspend the bag then go ahead.

I use two 5 gallon pots. I mash with about 1.5 quarts of water per pound then heat the remaining water in another pot to 168f. After the 60 minute mash I lift and drain the bag briefly then lower it into the second pot. Stir, let it sit for 15 minutes or so and then lift and drain again. I then boil in two pots on my stove top to speed up the boil. Eventually all the beer ends up in one pot. I get about 75% efficiency using this method. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Let me know how it goes.
http://www.beersmith.com/

 

[Silhou3tt3]

Let me know how it goes.
http://www.beersmith.com/

Brew day is done! I deviated only a little from the last recipe that you posted (Amarillo at 10 min as opposed to flame-out) but tried to make sure everything else was the same. Not sure why but my OG is 1.060...but I can live with that.

Hopefully the brew gods are with me and it ferments out alright. I'll let you know. Thanks again for your help!

 

[m00ps]

Im guessing you overshot your OG because you are using an estimated efficiency of only 60%. My 5gal BIABs usually are 70-75%. You gotta give yourself more credit! Anyway, the real point is to nail your predicted efficiency so your recipes turn out more or less as planned and you can replicate them when needed

 

[Silhou3tt3]

Im guessing you overshot your OG because you are using an estimated efficiency of only 60%. My 5gal BIABs usually are 70-75%. You gotta give yourself more credit! Anyway, the real point is to nail your predicted efficiency so your recipes turn out more or less as planned and you can replicate them when needed

That does make a lot of sense. Just as with taking good notes and the like. I'm still trying to get the hang of properly using a hydrometer (8 out of 9 batches and I finally remembered to take a reading prior to putting it in the carboy).

I punched it into brewersfriend.com and it looks like the converted efficiency is 87.64%. Aside from overshooting my original mark (and assuming that I can do it again) is this a good thing?

 

[m00ps]

yeah that's higher than most people get. In the end, it basically just means you'll save a bit of money on malts since youll get more sugars per pound of each malt. So if you find yourself consistently hitting the mid 80s, take that into mind when looking at other recipes that you are trying to model. Those will generally use 70-75% estimated efficiency, so youd be able to get away with slightly less malts.

I've thought about trying to up my efficiency, but when I think about it, there's really no point. I don;t mind having to spend like an extra dollar or two on average per recipe if I know how it will turn out. Im worried if I start messing with stuff like my gap size for my grain crush, all my numbers will get out of whack...

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Im guessing you overshot your OG because you are using an estimated efficiency of only 60%. My 5gal BIABs usually are 70-75%. You gotta give yourself more credit!....

Originally I used 62% efficiency (60% was a typo) as it was Silhou3tt3's first BIAB. Also that was assuming no squeezing or rinsing of the grains and leaving a quart of trub in the brew pot.

I punched it into brewersfriend.com and it looks like the converted efficiency is 87.64%. Aside from overshooting my original mark (and assuming that I can do it again) is this a good thing?

I find Brewersfriend is way off when I have used it. Entering your new OG of 1.060 BrewSmith reports a 70% overall efficiency assuming you got 5 gallons into your fermenter. New IBU 38. Still in the BJCP guidelines for American Brown Ales. Not bad at all! Did you rinse or squeeze? How much trub do you estimate you left behind?

 

[m00ps]

Yeah, my efficiency went up when I started rinsing my grain bags after I squeezed them. Got more of the sugars out and 4-5 more beers worth of liquid wort, yay.
Plus, the cold water I use to rinse the bag help me not burn myself when I squeeze it

 

[Silhou3tt3]

Originally I used 62% efficiency (60% was a typo) as it was Silhou3tt3's first BIAB. Also that was assuming no squeezing or rinsing of the grains.



I find Brewersfriend is way off when I have used it. Entering your new OG of 1.060 BrewSmith reports a 70% overall efficiency assuming you got 5 gallons into your fermenter. New IBU 38. Still in the BJCP guidelines for American Brown Ales. Not bad at all! Did you rinse or squeeze?

Thanks! I rinsed with water I heated to about 152 (I couldn't remember what temp to go with so I went with this one hoping for no harm/no foul). I rinsed with enough to get me up to 6 gallons for the boil. I would've squeezed but I was already having trouble controlling that malt monster. Lol

Yeah, my efficiency went up when I started rinsing my grain bags after I squeezed them. Got more of the sugars out and 4-5 more beers worth of liquid wort, yay.
Plus, the cold water I use to rinse the bag help me not burn myself when I squeeze it

Is it better to rinse with colder water, then? I was scared I was going to screw something up if I reduced the temperature too much prior to the boil.

As far as the bags go...how do you guys clean yours? I rinsed mine out like crazy but I can still see some of the grains bits every now and again.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Rinsing would explain your gain in efficiency. For rinsing (sparging) no hotter than 168F to reduce tannin extraction. Nice Brewing!

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Cleaning the bag can be a pain. I turn it inside out and go outside. Then twirl it around and shake vigorously. Then rinse with the hose, do it again. A few left over bits seem to shake off easily after it dries.

 

[doug293cz]

Is it better to rinse with colder water, then? I was scared I was going to screw something up if I reduced the temperature too much prior to the boil.

You can sparge (rinse) with hot or cold (or in-between) water. Makes no significant difference to efficiency (unless your mash conversion was incomplete, in which case hot water may allow a little more conversion.) See this article for information: http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2009/05/12/cold-water-sparging/. If sparging hot, keep the temp below 170°F, unless you know your sparge water is less than pH 6.0. Sparge water above 170°F AND greater than pH 6.0 can extract tannins (astringent.)

As far as the bags go...how do you guys clean yours? I rinsed mine out like crazy but I can still see some of the grains bits every now and again.

Don't worry about a few left over grain bits, they won't cause any problems on your next brew. If you don't like them for aesthetic reasons, get a fine mesh voile bag. They don't tend to hold anywhere near as many grain bits. Wilserbrewer (http://biabbags.webs.com/) makes very nice bags custom fitted for your pot.

Brew on

 

[TexasWine]

I find Brewersfriend is way off when I have used it.

This is interesting. I've always been spot on with Brewer's Friend. Once you know your conversion efficiency it's simply ratios after that. Seems like it'd be hard for BF to mess that up.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I checked the Brewer's Friend website and it is not the one I had used. Sorry Brewer's Friend. Try it. It could be great...
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I entered the grist into Brewer's Friend and it is real close, 69% efficiency so it looks good. Sorry for the mistaken review...
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/

 

[Silhou3tt3]

I find Brewersfriend is way off when I have used it. Entering your new OG of 1.060 BrewSmith reports a 70% overall efficiency assuming you got 5 gallons into your fermenter. New IBU 38. Still in the BJCP guidelines for American Brown Ales. Not bad at all! Did you rinse or squeeze? How much trub do you estimate you left behind?

I think I must be entering the readings wrong. I took the gravity reading from the kettle after I cooled it but before I transferred and I was able to get 5 gallons into the fermenter. Actually had to leave some behind in the kettle (roughly a couple of bottles worth).

As for the trub I didn't have much. At most I'd say there was something like an 1/8th of an inch (though that is probably more than there actually was). I use hop socks, Ferm-Caps and Whirlfloc (10 min) and cooling time was just under 10 minutes. I also strained from kettle to bucket three times and there was barely anything left over...but my kettle-fu is not strong, I splashed a little on the floor a couple times. v.v lol Thank you again, man! Helped a lot towards getting my confidence up to doing this brew.

You can sparge (rinse) with hot or cold (or in-between) water. Makes no significant difference to efficiency (unless your mash conversion was incomplete, in which case hot water may allow a little more conversion.) See this article for information: http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2009/05/12/cold-water-sparging/. If sparging hot, keep the temp below 170°F, unless you know your sparge water is less than pH 6.0. Sparge water above 170°F AND greater than pH 6.0 can extract tannins (astringent.)

Don't worry about a few left over grain bits, they won't cause any problems on your next brew. If you don't like them for aesthetic reasons, get a fine mesh voile bag. They don't tend to hold anywhere near as many grain bits. Wilserbrewer (http://biabbags.webs.com/) makes very nice bags custom fitted for your pot.

Brew on

Thanks for the info! I'm glad I went with my gut feeling and didn't go to a higher temp. As far as the bag goes...if it won't have any real effect on future brews then I'm not worried.

This thing is going on pretty strong right now. It's dark as night but that's ok; still get a little giddy just looking at it...now I just have to figure out what to brew next.

Edit:
Had to move the fermentor and it is not nearly as dark now as it first seemed. Definitely back to brown, now.

 

[Silhou3tt3]

Have any of you used Fermcap-S in the boil before?

 

[TexasWine]

Have any of you used Fermcap-S in the boil before?

Every batch. Works great.

 

[Silhou3tt3]

Every batch. Works great.

I feel the same but I just kegged two batches (Patersbier and Carribou Slobber, both NB kits) and had a taste and they both seem a little off. Has it ever effected the taste for you?

 

[TexasWine]

I feel the same but I just kegged two batches (Patersbier and Carribou Slobber, both NB kits) and had a taste and they both seem a little off. Has it ever effected the taste for you?

Never done a batch without it, but as far as I (and everyone else who tastes my beer) can tell, no off flavors.

 

[Silhou3tt3]

Never done a batch without it, but as far as I (and everyone else who tastes my beer) can tell, no off flavors.

Alright, thanks man. I think I may have just kegged too early.

 

[Silhou3tt3]

So, I meant to update this a while ago but the days got away from me. By now I'm a few weeks in the keg and this beer turned out pretty damn good.

I was shooting for a brown ale with the original recipe and after much tinkering and much help (thanks again!!) it turned out...a little closer to a stout. Lol But it is very tasty. I think I'll brew this recipe again and go with oak chips soaked in maker's mark in the secondary.

Thank you guys again for the help and especially thank you to bigdaddybrew for the help with the recipes!