So am i crazy???...thought of going pro.

[marjen]

looking to get some feedback from this great community. I have this thought that I am sure many here have had. I would love to turn this hobby into at least a semi profession. I started brewing in February of this year and have about 13-14 brew days under my belt, not many I know but its something I am passionate about. I thought about brewing for a long time before I actually started, but I usually don't do things without a ton of advanced planning so I spent a year or so researching before my first brewday.

I have spent the last 25 years of my life behind a desk working in IT for the healthcare industry. My kids are about to head off to college, my daughter this year and my son next year. 2 years ago my wife and I went to Italy for our 20th anniversary, we went to a couple of places in Tuscany that just made me want to change my life and run a B&B or something. Since i have gotten into brewing that has shifted into wanting to start a small nano farm brewery. Just something that would be open maybe weekend afternoons.

I am not someone who would just drop my steady paycheck at my day job, especially with 2 kids about to enter college. But my state has just passed a Farm brewers license into law. I have visited a few other locations in the state where people run breweries out of detected garages on the weekend. This is something I would LOVE to do do!

My wife is on board with me. We are thinking of finding a property to convert an existing barn into a small brewery. Maybe start by selling beer at farmers markets (permittable under the new law) and then eventually if it went well, in a barn on our property. The way I see it is way less risk. We basically need to build a fancy barn or garage. Much cheaper and less risk then renting retail space. If it didnt work out we still have gained equity in our property with the barn.

I would look to brew 2-4 BBLs per week. Sell 12 oz 16 oz pours and crowlers to go. Before I seriously consider such a move I want to try and replicate the pro process and get 5-6 beers I can consistently brew that are good enough to pull people in. So I just put cash down to buy one of the new SSBtech Unitanks, temp control and then electric brew setup. I figure putting a couple grand down to see if I can brew good beer consistently makes sense before I take the plunge in a bigger venture. I may not get past this step. Does this makes sense to others? My goal is to build a 10 gallon pilot system, replicating a pro system, create some solid beers consistently and then move up to 2-4 barrel brewing if it goes well.

I think it could be a fun way to make a little (and yes it would be a little) extra cash. It would be a lot of work, but I like that kind of work. Its the opposite of desk job work.

 

[Braufessor]

You at least have the benefit of some state friendly laws by the sound of it to dip your toe in the water without having to invest in a half million dollar brewery. So, that is an interesting plus.

I would make sure you are brewing good beer first......13 brew days is a tiny amount. Just make sure you get some truly unbiased and competent people to give you some input on your beer. You want to make sure you are on the right track before you throw something out to the public.

Are you planning on keeping your current job and then doing this on the side? I think it is worth noting that even as a "side" job - running a small brewery/BB could end up being 40-60 hours a week.... so, not like it will be a "part time" thing.

I think you have some cool laws in place in your state that give you a chance to try something out without getting too far in debt, etc.... That is a big plus. Just make sure you are getting unbiased feedback along the way, not just "ra-ra" support. I think that is the biggest thing. Best of luck if you go down the road.

 

[benco]

Sounds like a great plan, especially if your wife is on board. I would definitely start out small and work your way up. You might want to get a few more beers brewed to be sure this is what you want, it can be a lot of work. Good luck.

 

[brewcat]

Better start learning & brewing more. It seems lately the pro process is selling bad beer.

So you have a year before all the kids are in college. At that point, cut them off from your money. It will be better for them and you. If you are serious about a brewery, go all in. The point is to have the brewery support you, not you support the brewery. It is a mistake to keep your other job. It will take too much time & energy away from creating a successful business.

You mention a B&B... I actually think that is a great focus. Build a destination brewery within that business.

 

[mongoose33]

A few thoughts and a modicum of cold water. I'm not sure there are many home brewers who haven't thought about doing this for real.

As a place to start, have you managed to brew the same recipe twice or more and produced the same thing?

Do others ask you for your beer? If they try your beer, do they come back for more?

I had the opportunity to visit a small brewery in Milwaukee about 10 days ago. The guy running it has been to brewing school (someplace in California), and has a partner. He has ONE person working in his brewery--himself. He's just hired a second person to help w/ canning his beer. Prior to that he had a service which came to his brewery w/ the canning equipment.

His distributor is...him. He schleps kegs around to bars and such in a van. He's doing it all, and his operation is, IMO, rather sizeable for one person to manage. A bunch of big conicals, etc. etc. I had fun on his tour; we went past the room where he tests his beer, he had a $12,000 dissolved oxygen meter there. I asked him if I could borrow it; he laughed and said "Sure, if you leave a $12,000 deposit."

You've brewed 13 or 14 batches. Any of them outstanding? Any evidence you know what you're doing? Can you repeat the process? Done any yeast starters yet? Harvested your own yeast? Are you kegging or bottle conditioning?

What do you know about water? Can you amend your water for different styles? Have a pH meter yet? What kinds of water amendments do you have in your possession right now? Calcium Chloride? Gypsum? Any kind of acid?

What methods do you use to limit oxygen exposure post-fermentation? How do you carb?

I admire the goal; my question is whether you're truly ready for this. Doesn't mean you can't get ready, but to do this for real is harder than people think. And what's more, it's very hard to do this if you don't have another source of income while you try to figure it out.


Anyway, regardless, good luck and let us know what you end up doing.

 

[Kent88]

@Braufessor brings up a good point, even if he is probably from somewhere near Decorah (what happened to the homebrew shop over there? I was sad to see it closed). Are there some good, somewhat local contests you can enter this fall with some BJCP judges critiquing the entries? Make sure you're making good beer. Quality sells.

Besides that, make sure you're all set in the eyes of the law, and put some feelers out to local places that sell beer and see if you can start some positive dialogs, mostly just find out if there is enough demand in your area or if the market is saturated. Wouldn't start making agreements, even just handshake agreements.

Your kids are set with some good scholarships, right? Got to take care of them as best you see fit.

Is there anyone else that you trust who you think you could get on board to help you? A nanobrewery seems like a lot of work for just a couple people to manage, especially if one is working elsewhere 40 hours a week.

 

[Jtk78]

This is the same OP that has the 5 page thread on bad beer since switching equipment, correct?? I'm not trying to burst your bubble either, but what's your backup plan if that were to happen on a 2-4 barrel system. Are you gonna try to sell bad beer to consumers just to cover the ingredient costs? Are you going to have the available capital to dump 660 beers X $$selling price, plus buy more ingredients to shoot from the hip again? What about 5 times in a row?

I think a lot of people in this awesome hobby think "I can sell this". And you know what, I think most are probably right to some extent. But it takes a ridiculous amount of work and money, even to do it in the level your talking about. How many tours have you been on? How many tasting rooms have you gone to at setups on the same scale? Have you volunteered at any brewery after being a regular, to feel the work involved? How many questions have you asked of the people in the trenches, instead of asking some strangers on the internet.

Now, I actually think it's a neat idea. And if you could make it support you, that would be great. But a bakers dozen of batches doesn't cut the mustard in my eyes.

 

[AZBeer]

It seems like just about everybody that I give one of my beers, that's the first thing they say, "Are you going to open a brewery?"

My response is usually...Naw, I want to actually enjoy brewing.

 

[quijiba]

looking to get some feedback from this great community. I have this thought that I am sure many here have had. I would love to turn this hobby into at least a semi profession. I am new to brewing. Started in February of this year and have about 13-14 brew days under my belt. Its something I thought about for a long time before I actually started, I usually don't do things without a ton of advanced planning.

I have spent the last 25 years of my life behind a desk working in IT for the healthcare industry. My kids are about to head off to college, my daughter this year and my son next year. 2 years ago my wife and I went to Italy for our 20th anniversary, we went to a couple of places in Tuscany that just made me want to change my life and run a B&B or something.

So since even before I started brewing I ha thought about just changing my life, buying a house in the country and running a B&B or something. Since i have gotten into brewing that has shifted into wanting to start a small nano farm brewery.

I am not someone who would just drop my steady paycheck at my day job, especially with 2 kids about to enter college. But my state, CT, has just passed a Farm brewers license into law. I have visited a few other locations in the state where people run breweries out of detected garages on the weekend. This is something I would LOVE to do do!

My wife is on board with me. We are thinking of finding a property to convert an existing barn into a small brewery. Maybe start by selling beer at farmers markets (pewrmittavble under the new law) and then eventually in a barn on our property. The way I see it is way less risk. We basically need to build a fancy barn or garage. Much cheaper and less risk then renting retail space. If it fails we still have gained equity in our property with the barn.

I would look to brew 2-4 BBLs per week. Sell 12 oz 16 oz pours and crawlers to go. The way I see it, low risk to get started. Before I make the jump I am looking to try and replicate the pro process and get 5-6 beers I can consistently brew that are good enough to pull people in. So I just put cash down to buy one of the new SSBtech Unitanks. I figure putting a couple grand down to seee if I can brew good beer consistently makes sense before I take the plunge in a bigger venture. Does this makes sense to others? My goal is to build a 10 gallon pilot system, replicating a pro system, create some solid beers and then move up to 2-4 barrel brewing.

I am not looking too get rich here. Just looking to get out from behind a desk and do something I love. Making a little money on the side s bonus! Anyone else think about this?

That is literally what I am doing now. I live on a farm, laws changed to allow brewery on farms, so I turned homebrewing hobby into a hobby/side job.

I make literally no money, still work my regular job, and probably work about 40-60hrs/wk brewing around 6-9BBL/month. It's good fun but just be ready for the work. There is no big money in the 1BBL nano size. All the money you make goes back into buying supplies/improving your equipment (like getting a small lab set up, improving infrastructure etc etc).

I would also spend some serious time working on getting a few recipes dialed in, or even just the yeast and malt profile then roll with various hop combos you like or something. I started the process of opening what I have now after around 60 brew days. Even today at well over 100 I am still changing recipes, dialing in processes and tweaking.

If I were you I would focus really really hard on getting one recipe right, for right now. You don't want to launch with a bad beer!

 

[quijiba]

Everything said here is not only worth reading, but reading twice and thinking about hard. You're a one man show at that scale.

Also if any of the things he asked you about your beer process and recipe creation sound foreign to you, you need to start learning and learning fast because those are just the bare essentials.

A few thoughts and a modicum of cold water. I'm not sure there are many home brewers who haven't thought about doing this for real.

As a place to start, have you managed to brew the same recipe twice or more and produced the same thing?

Do others ask you for your beer? If they try your beer, do they come back for more?

I had the opportunity to visit a small brewery in Milwaukee about 10 days ago. The guy running it has been to brewing school (someplace in California), and has a partner. He has ONE person working in his brewery--himself. He's just hired a second person to help w/ canning his beer. Prior to that he had a service which came to his brewery w/ the canning equipment.

His distributor is...him. He schleps kegs around to bars and such in a van. He's doing it all, and his operation is, IMO, rather sizeable for one person to manage. A bunch of big conicals, etc. etc. I had fun on his tour; we went past the room where he tests his beer, he had a $12,000 dissolved oxygen meter there. I asked him if I could borrow it; he laughed and said "Sure, if you leave a $12,000 deposit."

You've brewed 13 or 14 batches. Any of them outstanding? Any evidence you know what you're doing? Can you repeat the process? Done any yeast starters yet? Harvested your own yeast? Are you kegging or bottle conditioning?

What do you know about water? Can you amend your water for different styles? Have a pH meter yet? What kinds of water amendments do you have in your possession right now? Calcium Chloride? Gypsum? Any kind of acid?

What methods do you use to limit oxygen exposure post-fermentation? How do you carb?

I admire the goal; my question is whether you're truly ready for this. Doesn't mean you can't get ready, but to do this for real is harder than people think. And what's more, it's very hard to do this if you don't have another source of income while you try to figure it out.


Anyway, regardless, good luck and let us know what you end up doing.

 

[HOPME]

Some good threads on this site regarding going pro. Do a search and read up.

 

[marjen]

To answer a few questions.

1. Yes I have produced a same beer twice and yes people that have tried it ask for more.
2. And yes I have had issues since changing equipment. I am working to overcome those issues. Thats part of the process, learning from your mistakes.
3. I would not make the move unless I was fully confident I could make consistent good quality beer. Otherwise there is no point. I plan on taking the next year to brew as much as possible to dial in my process. I may never get past that step quite honestly.
4. If I got past that step I would probably try the farmers market route next. Little to no risk doing that. If that was successful then I would investigate next step more seriously.

Bottom line is for now its still a hobby, but hoping for me one of these days.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I am an attorney and I spent the first six years of my career working in bankruptcy, so my view of small business is very dim, since I have been waste deep in their failures.

Being successful (and by successful, I mean making enough money to pay yourself something similar to minimum wage) at the small business level requires a plan. Anyone can start a business, sell some things, and then end with less money than they started. That is a hobby.

Business requires a plan and an understanding of how to make money. If you plan on selling at farmer's markets, which ones? Are you okay saying goodbye to your weekends? Do the markets have enough foot traffic to generate revenue to make it worth the time and cost of having to make the trip? Do you know the organizers of the markets and do they like you, so you can get prime locations?

One of my wife's best friends opened a bakery cafe four years ago at a kiosk in a library, and opened up an actual restaurant three years ago. She started baking and selling at farmers markets seriously seven years ago. She started catering and selling to businesses five years ago. This year is the first year she is actually paying herself. And she is making about a quarter of what she did before she started the bakery. Also, she has a business degree and spent a decade coordinating international shipping, so she understands paperwork and business.

After doing post-mortems on over a thousand small businesses, the one commonality I take away is as follows: good business skill with mediocre products will yield better results than fantastic products with poor business skill. It needs to be a business first and a profession second.

As an attorney, I have one of the easiest "businesses" to start - a law practice. And I am good at what I do - but there is no way in **** I would ever hang out my shingle. I like my house, my car, brewing beer, woodworking, gardening . . . I like going home and not thinking about work. As a result, I will make significantly less than I might otherwise, but I trade it for the security and minimal risk it takes working for "the man".

 

[Coathanger]

Sounds very cool and the loose laws are amazing (where I'm at, it's next to impossible to even dabble without throwing down your life's savings).

I'll echo a bit of what I've already read...I personally think the hard work, long hours, upgrading systems and equipment, etc would be half the fun for anyone truly committed.

For me, the biggest concern (especially at 13 batches - no offence) would be being able to reproduce the exact same beer consistently. I've made dozens of great beers that I know deep down I'll never be able to exactly replicate in the future (but my set up is admittedly very amateur).

Nothing ruins a smaller brewery's credibility more than putting out a great batch of Beer X, only to have their next batch just be not the same, which I have encountered several times.

I'd say pick a few styles you know are must haves, master a recipe for each style, and replicate it perfectly multiple times before getting into bigger equipment and testing our process all over again.

Seriously it sounds very fun though and best of luck

 

[Morrey]

There is a wealth of information in this thread...and some darn good experience to back it up. When a pro brewer doing this same thing you propose weighs in along with a bankruptcy attorney who insists you need a solid business plan, you have good advice.

I remember during my days as a BBQ judge, I also aspired to build a competition BBQ cook team. My idea was to have a bunch of friends come over and sample my BBQ and give me feedback. I was told I would not get the feedback I wanted from buddies eating FREE BBQ since they would feel awkward saying how they really felt. Same with beer...FREE beer to your friends will be good beer.

Maybe enter a competition and have your best beer judged professionally. See how it rates among your peers or does it need improvement? At the least, do an informal blind taste test with some folks who like good beer. Put your similar styled beer up against a highly ranked commercially available beer and do 3 cups...two of the same sample and the other a single sample of one or the other. Make it simple and score from 1-10 or even 1-5. The numbers will be unbiased and your buddies will feel empowered to be a "judge".

 

[Braufessor]

@Braufessor brings up a good point, even if he is probably from somewhere near Decorah (what happened to the homebrew shop over there? I was sad to see it closed).

Ha.... yeah, pretty close to Decorah. The owner of the brew shop moved, so that is why it closed. Was definitely nice to have it near by.

 

[shortyz]

how much can you legally sell with thise permit?

 

[triethylborane]

As an attorney, I have one of the easiest "businesses" to start - a law practice. And I am good at what I do - but there is no way in **** I would ever hang out my shingle. I like my house, my car, brewing beer, woodworking, gardening . . . I like going home and not thinking about work. As a result, I will make significantly less than I might otherwise, but I trade it for the security and minimal risk it takes working for "the man".

It doesn't help the profession is over saturated. You can get newly sworn in attorneys to work for next to nothing as an intern at a practice. If they can even get that internship, competition for peanuts is fierce.

 

[ericbw]

Dude, there's a lot of BS in this thread.

You've been in healthcare IT for 25 years, you went to Italy on vacation, kids are grown-ish, and maybe the wife works? You must have the money to buy a property with a barn.

Build our the little brewery, sell $10 growlers at the farmers market. If it's popular, open on Saturday afternoons with a tasting room. Book cheap entertainment and serve low end snacks. Let people bring their own food in.

Sell $5 pints and $10 growlers. And $15 t-shirts. And have fun.

 

[Seattle2k]

Here's a good read:

http://discussions.probrewer.com/showthread.php?24441-Nanobrewery-The-Lessons-I-ve-Learned

 

[Ashevillain]

Your not crazy in my opinion! My 2 cents, make sure you brew GREAT beer. That's it. If you take that to heart you don't need to read the rest of this post!

I live in an area with an EXTREMELY saturated yet healthy craft beer market. The majority of these breweries are successful or at least stable.

Everyone has their opinion on whats good, and the amount of money you put in and the extent of your marketing/brand power affects the consumer as well. So a huge brewery can sometimes get away with releasing something sub-par and their broader consumer base won't notice or feel any pain. But when I see a new brewery struggling it is either because they are not brewing good beer, or they are not conforming to the current meta in style/production.

Stylistic choices and production choices are personal choices and will not affect the way you're brewery is perceived negatively IF you brew good beer. Bottom line. If you're the best at what you do the community will support and respect you no matter what your brewing or how you sell it. Even if your brewery doesn't initially make great returns you'll have an excellent reputation to build from. Just make great beer first, and know that you can continue to make great beer. If a new startup brewery is not making good beer, there is a low chance of succeeding on a small scale, and they sort of haven't paid their dues to the commercial and home brewing communities in that sense. Its a letdown to the community and will kill your brand to push a beer that is only "good enough."

First impressions are HUGEEEEE in today's craft market, and more people are becoming experienced beer tasters. While labeling something as IPA or NEIPA might be enough to sell a sub-par beer, having any noticeable flaws AKA off flavors in a beer you release is crippling early on, and really should never be allowed to happen. DUMPING is necessary even for the best at one time or another. I would even argue that you should push beyond just avoiding flaws and make sure you can make classic styles pop the way they are supposed to and craft successful recipes that bring styles forward consistently. BECOME A MASTER.

The number one way to achieve this honestly is by working with a master, but I believe it can be achieved through discipline, hard work, and lots of experience on your own as well.

That is my 2 cents! I think the idea behind your project sounds awesome, it would be a blast to start selling your beer at the farmers market and it could be the beginnings of a truly excellent brewery! GOOD LUCK!!!

EDIT: My opinion is mainly focused on a philosophy that supports the health of the craft beer community, and doesn't reflect some other prime factors to a successful business. But I believe all prospective breweries should adopt that philosophy as a baseline to success.

 

[ericbw]

Your not crazy in my opinion! My 2 cents, make sure you brew GREAT beer. That's it. If you take that to heart you don't need to read the rest of this post!

I live in an area with an EXTREMELY saturated yet healthy craft beer market. The majority of these breweries are successful or at least stable.

Everyone has their opinion on whats good, and the amount of money you put in and the extent of your marketing/brand power affects the consumer as well. So a huge brewery can sometimes get away with releasing something sub-par and their broader consumer base won't notice or feel any pain. But when I see a new brewery struggling it is either because they are not brewing good beer, or they are not conforming to the current meta in style/production.

Stylistic choices and production choices are personal choices and will not affect the way you're brewery is perceived negatively IF you brew good beer. Bottom line. If you're the best at what you do the community will support and respect you no matter what your brewing or how you sell it. Even if your brewery doesn't initially make great returns you'll have an excellent reputation to build from. Just make great beer first, and know that you can continue to make great beer. If a new startup brewery is not making good beer, there is a low chance of succeeding on a small scale, and they sort of haven't paid their dues to the commercial and home brewing communities in that sense. Its a letdown to the community and will kill your brand to push a beer that is only "good enough."

First impressions are HUGEEEEE in today's craft market, and more people are becoming experienced beer tasters. While labeling something as IPA or NEIPA might be enough to sell a sub-par beer, having any noticeable flaws AKA off flavors in a beer you release is crippling early on, and really should never be allowed to happen. DUMPING is necessary even for the best at one time or another. I would even argue that you should push beyond just avoiding flaws and make sure you can make classic styles pop the way they are supposed to and craft successful recipes that bring styles forward consistently. BECOME A MASTER.

The number one way to achieve this honestly is by working with a master, but I believe it can be achieved through discipline, hard work, and lots of experience on your own as well.

That is my 2 cents! I think the idea behind your project sounds awesome, it would be a blast to start selling your beer at the farmers market and it could be the beginnings of a truly excellent brewery! GOOD LUCK!!!

EDIT: My opinion is mainly focused on a philosophy that supports the health of the craft beer community, and doesn't reflect some other prime factors to a successful business. But I believe all prospective breweries should adopt that philosophy as a baseline to success.

I agree that making good beer is essential, but there is probably less correlation between success and brewing skills than between success and business/marketing skills.

If a brewer makes awesome beer, but prices it too high, it can miss the market. Price too low, and they can't meet their costs. Sell the right kind of beer at the right price, right place, right atmosphere and it's a success, even with mediocre beer (which is in the eye of the beholder).

 

[Murphys_Law]

I agree that making good beer is essential, but there is probably less correlation between success and brewing skills than between success and business/marketing skills.

If a brewer makes awesome beer, but prices it too high, it can miss the market. Price too low, and they can't meet their costs. Sell the right kind of beer at the right price, right place, right atmosphere and it's a success, even with mediocre beer (which is in the eye of the beholder).

I was thinking the exact same thing. IMO, a great deal of the potential customers wouldn't know great beer from decent beer but if the atmosphere is right, the price is right, and they're having fun then you can build on that.

Give people a good beer at a good price and service the hell out of the customer and...there you go!

 

[Qhrumphf]

You need to be very cautious. Going pro, your job isn't brewing beer, your job is selling it. People will come back for more when it's free homebrew. Will they still when they have to put down money for it?

Brewing 2-4 bbl per week is incredibly ambitious for a part time operation. The brewing part won't be hard. The sales part will be. I don't think you'll be able to do it part time, nor make the bills doing it full time. Either go bigger and go all in, or go smaller.

And don't underestimate the legal hoopla. I basically run our brewhouse alone because my boss is so mired in paperwork, and that's with 3 other co-owners handling other parts of the business. Running the business is easily the hardest part, as others have said/implied. Breweries with great beer have closed because they lost that part of the equation.

I was very deliberate when I made the decision to sacrifice creative control, brew professionally for someone else, and save the stress, headache, and financial risk of doing it myself.

Whether you choose my route or your route, you won't make much money, especially not at first.

 

[Transamguy77]

Are you part of a homebrew club? If so do they pour at any beer fests? That for me was the best way to get good feedback. People are brutally honest, especially after they get a good buzz going. I've been told my beer was the worst beer they ever had to "oh wow where can I buy this!" If only a handful of people tell you they don't like it you have a beer you can sell because the masses will buy it.

I say take the chance you only live once and you might as well be doing something you like to do.

 

[Ashevillain]

You guys are very right. Atmosphere is important and the many factors that contribute to a good atmosphere can make a brewery. I have been to many breweries where the beer is on par and the locations/builds were amazing. I focused on quality in this post because I believe this is the strongest way to approach the brewing market. As a beer enthusiast, which we all are, I think this is the way to secure a more authentic and healthy market for our community. We all just want good beer right! That should be the focus.

 

[Coathanger]

You guys are very right. Atmosphere is important and the many factors that contribute to a good atmosphere can make a brewery. I have been to many breweries where the beer is on par and the locations/builds were amazing. I focused on quality in this post because I believe this is the strongest way to approach the brewing market. As a beer enthusiast, which we all are, I think this is the way to secure a more authentic and healthy market for our community. We all just want good beer right! That should be the focus.

I agree completely. It also depends on area demographics - how many potential customers are you looking to serve? With large cities, you can count on many newcomers popping by once or even twice just for something to do, something to try. But if you're getting into smaller territory (less population) you'll be targeting more repeat customers. Die-hards or local supporters who keep coming back for more... and therein lies the deepest concern of having a good beer selection that you can replicate flawlessly. And that takes time, experience and familiarity with your equipment.

I'd bet ALL of us had dreams of opening a small operation at some point - probably after our 5th or so successful batch. I started talking to a local bar owner who was very open to the idea of housing equipment for me to have signature beer on tap at the bar.

Now, 2 years and probably 20 batches later, I'm so glad we never went ahead. I realize I am in no position to take on any more than my usual 5gal batch and my odds of replicating are honestly quite low. That's just me though - I certainly would benefit from better equipment and more focused discipline.

I would argue though that aside from a moral perspective...your target market and demographics will play a huge roll in the importance of atmosphere vs consistency.

 

[Qhrumphf]

You guys are very right. Atmosphere is important and the many factors that contribute to a good atmosphere can make a brewery. I have been to many breweries where the beer is on par and the locations/builds were amazing. I focused on quality in this post because I believe this is the strongest way to approach the brewing market. As a beer enthusiast, which we all are, I think this is the way to secure a more authentic and healthy market for our community. We all just want good beer right! That should be the focus.

You're missing the point.

Atmosphere is important, yes. Beer quality is important, yes. Without those you're only going to get so far.

What ultimately matters is business acumen. Great beer, great atmosphere, mean f*** all if the business plan is poor and the business can't turn a profit (or at least cover costs). The difference between only getting so far and getting absolutely nowhere.

There was a place in my neighborhood that made great beer (atmosphere was mediocre though), but their business administration was so poor that they shuttered after barely a year. Giving their employees a week's warning. And after having not paid rent for nearly half their existence.

 

[Refly]

I'm in the process of doing this myself so here are a few pieces of advice -

Spend some time working with another small brewer. By this, I mean something like 3-6 months. Our state also has a farm brewery license and as a result we have a lot of brewers starting out small - 1 to 5 bbls. They all need help. I learned an incredible amount from simply being part of the brewing community and brewing frequently. You can do this while you search for a location, get licensed, etc...The contacts, knowledge gained and foot in the door to the industry are important. You may also find out that it's not for you and it's best to know this up front.

Have a business plan even if it's simple. For me, I quickly realized that I could not do this without my own tasting room given what I was personally looking for out of the business. Make sure you know what you want out of your business and have a plan to get there. I was able to refine my business plan (actually major changes in philosophy) after spending some time working with other brewers and understanding the industry and local landscape better.

Make sure you are clear on all of your expenses. I find that small brewers really underestimate this. Somehow their time, gas, beer samples, and other small costs don't get counted. They add up quickly. Also, while a farm license is cheap initially, be prepared to pay significantly more for grain depending on the state you are in. Our malting houses are lagging way behind the brewers. Thus limited supply equals higher prices.

Speak with your local regulators. Our county which is responsible for the board of health (sanitation, sewage, etc..) had some restrictions which greatly influenced location. The same for the local towns by me. Villages were generally accommodating, but the towns were often difficult with out of date zoning laws that never contemplated something like a micro brewery or nano brewery. My location, the physical size of my property, the square footage ratio of the brewery to tasting room and other factors were greatly influenced (or were dictated) by this.

A lot of people will tell you why you can't do this. If you understand the risks, have a solid plan and are passionate about it - go for it! If people didn't follow their dreams there would be no craft beer industry.

 

[Mainer]

It seems like just about everybody that I give one of my beers, that's the first thing they say, "Are you going to open a brewery?"

My response is usually...Naw, I want to actually enjoy brewing.

I get that response, too. The whole, "So when are you going to go pro?"

What I always want to respond is, "Look, pal, we both know you're just being polite. My beers are fun to taste, fun to talk about, but they're not something you'd buy a sixer of every week, at least not at the prices I'd have to charge to make a living off them."

But I know they're just being nice, so instead I say, "Nah I don't want to have to brew. I want to want to brew."

 

[Ashevillain]

You're missing the point.

Atmosphere is important, yes. Beer quality is important, yes. Without those you're only going to get so far.

What ultimately matters is business acumen. Great beer, great atmosphere, mean f*** all if the business plan is poor and the business can't turn a profit (or at least cover costs). The difference between only getting so far and getting absolutely nowhere.

There was a place in my neighborhood that made great beer (atmosphere was mediocre though), but their business administration was so poor that they shuttered after barely a year. Giving their employees a week's warning. And after having not paid rent for nearly half their existence.

This is an aspect that we don't get to see first hand in small breweries. Its so easy to focus on the awesome parts!There is a lot to stay on top of between bills, insurance, permits, inspections, etc. Its absolutely doable, but it takes a full on commitment and a good business plan obviously.

Business plan, good beer, good place, and dedication seem to be a general consensus on what makes a good startup brewery.

I really like the idea of the farmers market, at that level it just looks like a lot of fun. I would love to sell my homebrew if I was making more than I needed to keep my lines flowing.

 

[Mainer]

You're missing the point.

Atmosphere is important, yes. Beer quality is important, yes. Without those you're only going to get so far.

What ultimately matters is business acumen. Great beer, great atmosphere, mean f*** all if the business plan is poor and the business can't turn a profit (or at least cover costs). The difference between only getting so far and getting absolutely nowhere.

There was a place in my neighborhood that made great beer (atmosphere was mediocre though), but their business administration was so poor that they shuttered after barely a year. Giving their employees a week's warning. And after having not paid rent for nearly half their existence.

Along with a business plan, you definitely need a personal finance plan, too. I'd ask the OP, pointedly, what your reserves look like. Are you talking about brewing and selling part-time, or are you looking to quit your day job and jump right in. If the latter, do you have enough in savings to not draw a paycheck for like 2-3 years?

Most startup breweries have to give away a lot of product early on to get their name out there, and they also probably need to sell at or below cost for a while. Is that realistic for you?

 

[Dcpcooks]

I was at a brewery this weekend in Wi. They have been around for 100+ years. The brewer has been there 24 years. They sell about 10,000 bbl's per month on average. They make < 8% profit and run 24/7.

I'm in the middle of a business plan for a brewery w/ a tap room and we're planning to self distribute. I'd estimate your 2 bbl brew house would max out at $145,000 in gross revenue. That's brewing once a week ( 2 bbl) and having four beers on tap. So assuming you have a barn to brew in and don't pay rent and you have well water you'd be lucky to not lose money.

It's nearly impossible to work another job and brew consistently. Then you have to factor in just how small a 2 bbl batch really is. If your successful you'll need to brew twice a day four days a week with one day to keg and bottle and one day of cleaning maintenance and prepping the space for the next day. That's 8- 5 bbl fermentors a commercial glycol unit, two bright tanks and a commercial cooler.

Can you set up a successful brewery on a 2 bbl brewhouse? Sure you can pipeworks started that way. They also brewed double batches on 10-12 hour brew days and brewed 8 batches a week. After 3-5 years they are running a 20 bbl brew house and 40 bbl fermentors. They have had to rewrite and scale recipes three different times now.

 

[Coathanger]

There's a ton of good input here. And we can talk all day about our opinions on business vs brew, atmosphere, marketing and man hours required. But to get to the point - OP, you've been brewing for five months.

Don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't do something. But I would definitely keep this idea in the back of your mind - while you refine recipes, build some savings, and explore the homebrew world before taking any actual plunge. There is A LOT to learn, which is half the fun.

The reality is that it's not impossible. If it was, then craft beer wouldn't exist. But I'm putting it out there that 13-14 batches is not a whole lot of experience to go on... not to be a jerk or anything, I'm not saying there's some quantitative value at which you can "go pro," but 5 months in to a homebrewing adventure is a little early to explore producing beer for a living. Just my two cents.

 

[Mainer]

For the record, are we talking Connecticut? Because the CT farm brewery law requires that at least 25% of the hops and barley you brew with in year 1 be grown on premises, and 50% in subsequent years. That's a very tall order for a part-time gig.

 

[marjen]

So TONS of great comments in this thread from people coming from many different angles.

I think maybe my original post kind of missed the mark of what I was looking for, could have been the couple beers I had the night I wrote it

Let me say again I am not quitting my day job, I am not jumping into something without thinking, I am not doing this right now. Its something I am thinking of dipping my toe in down the road and I am looking to take steps to to get there. Or steps to find out it would be a very bad idea.

The first thing and main thing I was looking for is I need to know I can make good beer all the time. I recently changed part of my gear and increased my batch size. This led me to a whole host of issues. I am working to resolve those. But it got me thinking. So I am thinking it makes sense to put a little money into good equipment on the cold side, i.e. conical fermenter (unitank) with proper temp control to really give me the best chance possible to make very good beer. The thinking is if I can replicate the process on a small scale it would make moving up easier as the process would be the same, just different size tank. Making this small investment would be a much smarter approach than trying to jump from 5 gallon batches and carboys to 2 bbl and conicals etc. It would also really put my abilities on the line because if I can't make good beer with very good equipment then there is no future in this anyway.

My thought was to take the next year to really work on that side of the equation, brew a lot, build recipes, work on consistency, work on the process of brewing and troubleshooting and if a year from now I can brew the same recipes with the same results over and over then I can take the next step.

The other other part of my original post was just trying to lay out a business plan very early. Like others here have said, if you dont have a very solid plan the rest does not matter, you will fail. My plan would be to start small, hit farmers markets, get the word out via social media, etc to see what the reception would be. This would be check point number 2.

IF I made it past the first 2 check points then it would be time to think about the small brewhouse seriously. I feel it takes more than making good beer to be successful, that is where the barn brewery comes in. Finding a scenic setting so that people can go and relax and enjoy the atmosphere. For me something like that is more appealing. Having something like that on your own property also reduces operating cost. And if it fails, again you still have value in the property.

I also feel that keeping it small and selling mostly pours with some take home crowlers/growlers give you the best chance to make some money. Around here the average for pints from a brewery runs from $5-8+ Growlers go for $12-20. This gives you a better chance to make income as opposed to selling kegs to bars or trying to distribute.

One thing, someone brought up the CT farm license. It is brand new, but I have spoken to some of the local breweries that have some working knowledge of its rules and the 25% part actually does not need to be on premises. They really want it in state and my understanding is that even that is not attainable today and they made the requirement a 50 mile radius to get local ingredients. This makes using malt farms in western ma and NY state possible. Only a handful at most are looking to grow malt in CT. There is some hop growing, but not a ton. A lot of the breweries are also basically using local adjucts to meet the criteria. As I said it is a new law, but some smaller breweries were approved in the last year or two with modified existing laws and using the farm brewing license as template before it was actually enacted.

Anyway, I will see how things go, in the mean time, time to get brewing.

 

[Mainer]

One thing, someone brought up the CT farm license. It is brand new, but I have spoken to some of the local breweries that have some working knowledge of its rules and the 25% part actually does not need to be on premises. They really want it in state and my understanding is that even that is not attainable today and they made the requirement a 50 mile radius to get local ingredients. This makes using malt farms in western ma and NY state possible. Only a handful at most are looking to grow malt in CT. There is some hop growing, but not a ton. A lot of the breweries are also basically using local adjucts to meet the criteria. As I said it is a new law, but some smaller breweries were approved in the last year or two with modified existing laws and using the farm brewing license as template before it was actually enacted.

I read the text of the law and it seems to say it needs to be grown on-premises or on a farm owned by the brewery licensee.

The actual text of the law reads: "(5) The farm brewery permittee shall grow on the premises of the farm brewery or on property under the same ownership and control of said permittee or leased by the backer of a farm brewery permit or by said permittee within the farm brewery's principal state an average annual crop equal to not less than twenty-five per cent of the hops and barley used in the manufacture of the farm brewery permittee's beer for the first year of issuance for any such permit and not less than fifty per cent of the hops and barley used in the manufacture of the farm brewery permittee's beer for the second and any subsequent year of issuance for any such permit."

On the other hand, the state's own analysis of the bill reads, "The bill requires permittees to use a certain amount of hops, barley, or other fermentables grown or malted in the state. In the first year of a permit's issuance, a farm brewery manufacturer permittee must use at least 25% of a combination of hops, barley, cereal grains, honey, flowers, or other fermentables grown or malted within the state when brewing his or her beer. The permittee must increase this amount to at least 50% each subsequent year" No mention of an on-premises requirement there.

So maybe you're right. It seems like there's some ambiguity. I'm sure these things will be clarified. As you said, it's a pretty young law right now.

 

[Mainer]

Oh, also, interesting that the above says the ingredients need to be grown *or malted* in state. That would seem to imply that it's okay to use barley that is grown just about anywhere but malted in-state.

 

[oceanic_brew]

Just giving you some personal insight to my job and homebrewing.

I just brewed 11 five gallon batches for a wedding and my bands album release. I personally sat up and served at the album release and built the bar along with the whole dispensing system at the wedding plus bottled, labeled, shrink capped 60 bottles of wine.

There was a massive amount of planning for the wedding, a massive amount of planning and practicing/promotion for the album release plus I work as a lead hand carpenter/cabinet maker at 45 hrs a week starting at 7:00 am every morning.

The whole process from when we started recording the album to when I finished the wedding this weekend was average of about 14 hrs a day work for me and started in September and ended in this past weekend.

I definitely have had moments of such deep anxiety and mental/physical fatigue that I've wondered why I am even doing any of this.

It was a massive pay off and worth it, the feeling of providing music and quality drinks to people (and it was free for everyone btw) was the most rewarding and soul building thing I've ever done.

What I'm trying to get at here is that you cannot keep this up I don't care who you are or how slack your day job is physically, In order for your business to be successful you need to have a plan to eject yourself from your desk job.

Your new business requires you to be energetic and passionate always. If you are so run down that the thrill of providing a quality product/experience to people doesn't break its way through than the bond between you and your customer will be broken.

The hard work is a selling point to the customer, many craft beer drinkers analyze beer by flavor of course but also the blood, sweat, and tears put into the product and business. This isn't a sellable factor if you have nothing left in you.

 

[HopGobbler]

I would love to go pro and move out of IT, the problem that I see is the craft beer market, especially where I live is SO saturated that it would be hard to compete. There is literally 1-3 breweries a month opening here so my fear is that the market is too saturated for me to make any decent money at it. I brew for me and for my family and friends to sample and enjoy, would I love to brew for masses? Sure, but I don't have a half mil of capital to invest in starting my own brewery either, so it is what it is