Smoke Porter mouth feel help

[Boy]

Entered this recipe into a recent comp and got dinged significantly about the body and mouth feel. Amazingly to me neither judge commented on any smoke flavor. They only noticed the coffee. Both commented on the lack of body and no mouth feel. Looking for tips to improve and get some chewiness for this complex beer.

5 Gallon batch
OG 1.054
FG 1.013
IBU: 35
Efficiency: 71%

Mashed @ 154. Double batch sparge.
60 Minute boil

6lb Smoke Malt (50%)
3.5lb Munich (29%)
14oz British Crystal 55L (7%)
14oz Chocolate Malt (7%)
12oz Victory (6%)

FWH: .75oz Northern Brewer, .5oz Perle

S-04 Yeast

28 Day Primary
2 months bottle condition before comp

12oz Cold Press coffee at bottling
Carbed for 2.4 Volumes

Thanks for any help.

 

[Boy]

As a similar aside to add here, I have a few Porters I am working on right now where I want moderate or better attenuation but a minimum of medium body. Trying to figure out how to balance this has my head confused. Should I start looking at RIS recipes for tricks to preserve body while lowering FG?

 

[Jakemo]

From your measurements it looks as though it mashed ok...
Don't quote me on this cuz I'm not 100% but I fear that you're not getting good conversion of all the grains. That could be responsible for the light FG, but I might also be talking out of my (rhymes with cask).
154 is good, but I don't think there would be anything wrong with 155 or 156 just to get that extra body...

Apologies if nothin I said is accurate

 

[jfr1111]

What pops at me reading your recipe is the carbonation level. 2.4 is really pushing the boundaries of the style as far as Robust Porters go. S-04 is a great attenuator and you have coffee and chocolate malt in there that can give an acidic, sharp taste too. Plus smoked malt.

Is the mouthfeel any better once the beer has warmed up and been swirled in the glass ? Too high carbonation can make the beer seem brash and quite thin.

 

[Jakemo]

+1. Totally missed the volumes of CO2 but yeah that's awful high.

I used about 1/3 cup dextrose (before i had a scale) on a porter that finished about where yours is, and the low carbonate actually helped give it an apparent creaminess and body that it probably would've lost had I carbed higher...

 

[Boy]

So I compared the porter to a stout I just brewed that went form 1.065 to 1.024 and back to back holy hell could I tell the difference. Now I just need to find a way to get good attenuation but still keep a lot of the body. Thanks again

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

There are several things you can do:

*use more crystal malt
*mash higher
*use flaked barley or wheat
*carbonate lower

I think you would have been ok using more crystal instead of munich/as much munich and mashed higher.

 

[shaggybudd]

When going for more body and mouthfeel I've found what works for me is definately mashing at a higher temp around 156F or even a couple degrees higher, and throw in a pound or so of Flaked Oats. I have a smoked porter on tap right now that has a very nice mouthfeel and thickness to it. I ended up putting 3lbs of Flaked oats in my recipe. I might back down on that on the next go-around.

*edit* as far as coffee flavor goes I've always steeped some coffee grounds for 15-10 min. at the end of the boil. Worked well for me. Just remember to use a light or medium roast to avoid as much of those awful oils as you can.

 

[944play]

I wouldn't worry too much about the FG. Get some dextrins in there, either from higher mash temp, maltodextrin powder, or both. Those long, unfermentable sugars don't really come across as sweet, but they do add to a perception of a softer texture and a visual thickening that makes beer seem to glisten as it pours.

 

[Boy]

I think a higher mash temp is going to be the key. Crystal and non fermentables are already at 20% and the beer does taste incredible already. I got a score of 31 from a professional brewer on it and his biggest comments and knock downs were all body. I don't really want to play with the recipe more than just adding that crucial factor. Plan is to next time mash at 156 and use a little less coffee. I drink turkish fine grind french press so I only get a hint of coffee, where as my score sheets were covered with coffee notes.

 

[Boy]

To add though about carbonation. The head disappears within 5 minutes. I thought carb levels would help this. That is why I carbed higher. Help here would be greatly appreciated. I carb all my beers between at 3/4 of the recommended max from the tasty brew priming calculator. Most have an incredible head that last til the end. Any tips here for good lacing and head retention?

 

[shaggybudd]

If you bottled; it could be that there were bubbles while you were bottling. Those proteins that make the head of the beer only bubble once.

For a 5 gallon batch of this beer planning on bottling the whole batch, I'd recommend using 3/4 cup of priming sugar in the mix at bottling stage. For kegging, 1/3 cup.

 

[cjb]

One thing you may not have thought of - double check your thermometer. I was struggling with similar issues until I found my dial thermometer was off by >5deg at mash temperatures. A ~$30 investment in a good, calibrated digital thermometer has definitely paid off.

 

[jfr1111]

To add though about carbonation. The head disappears within 5 minutes. I thought carb levels would help this. That is why I carbed higher. Help here would be greatly appreciated. I carb all my beers between at 3/4 of the recommended max from the tasty brew priming calculator. Most have an incredible head that last til the end. Any tips here for good lacing and head retention?

The coffee was probably the culprit. That stuff has a lot of oils in it that can mess up head retention. Torrified wheat, flaked barley and cara type malts all aid with head retention. I would include some flaked barley next time since it can add to the body.

Higher carbonation also doesn't mean you'll have great head retention.

 

[shaggybudd]

The coffee was probably the culprit. That stuff has a lot of oils in it that can mess up head retention. Torrified wheat, flaked barley and cara type malts all aid with head retention. I would include some flaked barley next time since it can add to the body.

Higher carbonation also doesn't mean you'll have great head retention.

Right. Just head formation.

 

[edb23]

sounds to me like maybe the oil from the coffee was causing the problems? I'd replace some of the munich (maybe a pound) with some crystal 80L