Single tier flame issue

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Nickeldeposit

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I know this has been gone over multiple times but each project is different so where’s the problem on my brew rig? My single tier with 3 BG14 banjo burners doesn’t put out close to the power I’ve seen some on here when it comes to flame intensity. As for the setup from the LP tank, starts with a 30psi regulator into ½” hard pluming, that leads to each (3) gas valves that are rated up to 300k btu (very sim to oven valve) w/ ball valve mounted on top, that then leads to ½” yellow flex rated up to 75k btu and those go directly into the BG14’s. I drilled out one of the orifices to 1/16th and one to 3/32nd (one remains as is) both have improved flame height and amount but the flame still isn’t intensely coming out of the burners. Where have I gone wrong?
 
Got a new reg that can go up to 200k btu and hooked it directly from lp tank to BG14 and still low weak flame, what gives? Shouldnt the flame be more "jet" like?
 
The problem is in your pipe sizing.

According to the Bayo Classic website this burner can produce up to 210K btu

Your flex lines are only rated to 75K in addition your 1/2 hard line is under sized for the load you should be using at least 3/4". a 1" manifold stepped down at the burner would be even better.
 
Over the weekend I upgraded the flex lines to 5/8” with a 130k capability and the flame still wasn’t any stronger. Once I drilled the orifice to 3/32” the flame is now say 4”-5” tall but not really with much intensity. ½” black pipe is the standard size in the residential industry and should be more than enough to supply a few burners. Should the BG 14 have an intense flame or just a lot of blue is how it should be?
 
Sometimes when you open your tank when everything is wide open, it locks up. Some sort of a safety mechanism. Close all valves, open tank, and see if that helps.
 
Over the weekend I upgraded the flex lines to 5/8” with a 130k capability and the flame still wasn’t any stronger. Once I drilled the orifice to 3/32” the flame is now say 4”-5” tall but not really with much intensity. ½” black pipe is the standard size in the residential industry and should be more than enough to supply a few burners. Should the BG 14 have an intense flame or just a lot of blue is how it should be?

You upgraded the flex lines, but they are still being fed by 1/2 pipe. The 1/2" pipe will not be able to support the 3 burners.

1/2" is not the standard in the residential industry. I'm a general contractor an build houses for a living. All new homes are built with 3/4" or 1" gas lines. They may be stepped down to 1/2" near the point of connection, but only for low demand appliances. High demand appliances such as your furnace and range will run 3/4 to the appliance.
 
I Think I'm having a similar issue. I just bought the bayou classic kab6. rated at 210k. I fired it up and was not that impressed. I thought it would also be more jet like. Would this be because of the flex line that comes with it?
 
Many of Brutus type systems have been built using 1/2" piping, if even running one burner at a time that should supply plenty of LP. I hooked the new 200k btu capable regulator to the full LP tank and bypassed the rest of the setup and screwed the regulator hose into the (drilled to 3/32”) orifice of one BG 14 burner and the flame was no different. Do these burners just not have much intensity and have a lot of heat just by their size?
 
[...]As for the setup from the LP tank, starts with a 30psi regulator into ½” hard pluming, that leads to each (3) gas valves that are rated up to 300k btu (very sim to oven valve)[...]

Tell us about those valves, because I'm betting they're the cause of your frustration...

Cheers!
 
Overall back side of stand

image.jpg
 
Uh huh. Thought so.
Read the labels on those gas valves...

Cheers!

That's what I thought also with the 3.5 wc but they have been converted to lp at 11" wc. Also I've hooked the burner directly to the hose and regulator and the burner is still pathetic compared to some videos I've seen, makes no sense.
 
The banjo burners on low pressure lp are not going to burn like the setups on high pressure, flames of 2-4" are normal. The gas jets need to be drilled out to at least 3/32", and after testing the burner and the air shutter in not more than 75% open to get yellow flame tips to turn blue, increase jet opening by stepping down 1 number drill size. When the burners are tuned correctly they are nearly silent and have all blue flames with hint of yellow at tips and produce a lot of heat.
A practical guide to burner sizing is about 5,000 btu's per inch of pot diameter, more fire is usually counter productive. Mega burners typically heat slower because flames are up the sides not under, and destroy all the flammable bits hanging in the flame path. A 10" burner with 3/32" gas jet opening and 12-13" Wc pressure will hit 80,000+ btu's, more than enough for half barrel systems.
Do not go crazy with pipe manifold size, size charts are for piping systems are meant for appliance services with more than 2-3' of pipe, and 1/2" pipe is more than enough to feed 3- 3/32" gas jets. More common problem is insufficient gas regulator capacity, 160,000 capacity is a minimum size, 200-250,000 is large enough, more than that and pressure can be unstable at low fire levels. Remember that only one burner will be wide open at a time, others will be at 25-50% in use at a nominal load of 120,000 btu's.
This information has been proven on quite a few Brutus style builds with 10" cast burners over the years, both LP and NG fueled.
 
makes sense just seems odd that I have to ahve the air intake full open and stil have orange flame and burner flame is like a big cig lighter
 
If you're getting orange flames, you haven't tuned the burners yet. At full power on 11" WC I have seen videos with nearly blue ~4" flame.

I still question whether those valves will work reliably considering the regulator feeding them is rated for over 60 times the valve's max input pressure rating. I'm pretty sure I've heard of folks having problems with that configuration. You should probably consider getting a high volume/two 11" WC stage regulator.

Otherwise, 11" WC is like .4 psi, so it shouldn't be all that surprising that a casting that was designed for up to 30 psi is acting wimpy. But, as kladue said, there are plenty of folks successfully running low pressure propane and natural gas with the 10" banjos, and from the videos I've seen there looks to be plenty of power available...just not the massive inferno the burners can produce on high pressure gas...

Cheers!
 
Been here, done that. It's a pita. My valves are Honeywell, wished I had gone with a "dumb" valve, but anyways...

I had mini jet burners and the castings failed multiple times, so I went to a banjo burner designed for low pressure (from brewers hardware). I had a heck of a time getting them to burn well for me. Lets not even talk about wind. I went back to mini jets and still had weak flames, but overall significantly improved. Also swapped marshall 290 series two stage regulator to a Reco 450k btu rated on the manifold (1/2" like yours) fed by 3/4" buried line to twin 250gal tanks. Measured pressure on valves and with more than one open I was getting drop in pressure (on the manifold side) with two burners simultaneously, all three was even worse. Very frustrating. Eventually I heeded some advice with great reluctance I finally gave in to the frustrations and bought a welding style regulator. Mine is actually an acetylene regulator. I have aborted the buried tank temporarily and use a portable cylinder now (until I can finish the next mods to the manifold to connect to both the buried cylinders or the portable cylinder, with intent on using the portable cylinder to run the boil kettle for some brews). I found my boil off rate insufficient for boiling off the DMS in brewing 10-11 gallon lager brews, but oddly, worked just fine in doing ales when connected to the buried tanks using that Reco regulator.

What I found was that I could adjust the manifold pressure on the fly with the acetylene regulator connected to the portable tanks. I found that my low pressure mini jet burners like a little higher pressure than the 11" WC that they are supposedly calibrated for. I found that with pressure over 4.5psi that the Honeywell valves wouldn't open and some difficulty getting the pilots to light. 1 psi per active burner seems to work pretty well, though I could run the boil burner at 2-3 psi and it seemed very effective getting the boil rolling. Seems that your high pressure regulator should be able to do the same thing, but the valves may not tolerate as much psi as my Honeywell are able to. Also you don't appear to have a pressure gauge on your manifold or regulator to see what you are running at. Could be that your regulator is not up to snuff. I would consider a welding type regulator. If using an acetylene regulator bothers you they make them for propane as well, just harder to find. I bought my regulator on amazon, its a medium duty Hobart brand I believe. Reverse thread connected directly to the portable cylinder. Another forum member helped me with all the fittings that he had spare from his build, so that I could connect to the manifold on my rig. At this point, what have you got to lose in trying this.

Did have a quickie question. About my buried tanks. As I understand they are coming off the primary tank regulator set at 10 psi through about 25 feet guesstimate of 3/4" piping, to a QD with locking ball-valve connection, that I connect to my brew rig with rubber some flex hose 15'. Right now this is disconnected from my rig, but I plan to connect it back up, and attach on the opposite end of the manifold, another ball valve and then plumb in the new acetylene regulator so that I can do my mash and all that jazz (or even run the boil all off my buried tanks) and reserve the portable tank use for boiling lagers or even just getting the boil started. So the question relates to my Reco regulator, which is an integral or two stage regulator, with 1/4" inlet and 1/2" outlet. . I was wondering since I already have the primary regulator on the buried tanks, if using this two stage regulator is an incorrect application or not.

I find it inexplicable that when I measured pressures on my manifold with this 450k btu rated regulator, that it couldn't maintain 11"WC with two valves open. Somewhere I along the propane pathway there has got to be a restriction. Guy who plumbed the line to the tanks said it was 3/4" Line and certainly looks to be at least 3/4 where is come out of the ground. He knew what my brew rig specs were, and I believe he said it is plumbed to the primary tank regulator set at 10 psi, and I believe is rated to 500k btu minimum ( also connected to generator, grill side burner, two gas fireplaces, pool heater, spa heater, but I believe these appliance all have their own secondary regulators at their installed locations, and usually are not operating while I am brewing). In essence then when I am plugged into the buried tanks, the propane is going through three stages of regulation, and I was curious if that integral / two stage reg on my manifold should really be swapped to a single stage?

TD.
 
Ok so back to the topic, any reason the burners don’t even run well connected directly to the tank w/ orifices drilled to 3/32”?
 
Ok so back to the topic, any reason the burners don’t even run well connected directly to the tank w/ orifices drilled to 3/32”?

Connected through your 30 psi regulator, the orifice is now over-size for high pressure propane. I expect the burner would run rich - tending towards yellow instead of blue.

Do you have an original, un-hacked, high-pressure orifice to try?

Cheers!
 
For the Reco 2 stage regulator, if connected down stream of the primary regulator the first stage orifice will be way too small for full flow with 10 Psi input. It would be expecting 100+ Psi input and should have stable outlet pressure when directly connected to the tank. If using a primary regulator at the tank for 10 Psi delivery, you need a secondary regulator meant for 10 Psi inlet pressure with larger regulator orifice.
Orange flames on a new burner are normal, that is the oils and casting scale coming off the new burner for the first hour or so, lemon yellow flames are insufficient air and air shutter should be opened to where they turn blue.
 
kladue said:
For the Reco 2 stage regulator, if connected down stream of the primary regulator the first stage orifice will be way too small for full flow with 10 Psi input. It would be expecting 100+ Psi input and should have stable outlet pressure when directly connected to the tank. If using a primary regulator at the tank for 10 Psi delivery, you need a secondary regulator meant for 10 Psi inlet pressure with larger regulator orifice.
Orange flames on a new burner are normal, that is the oils and casting scale coming off the new burner for the first hour or so, lemon yellow flames are insufficient air and air shutter should be opened to where they turn blue.

Thank you!
 
low pressure syatem drill orifice to 3/32 on BG-14 flame sucks and soots the keggles black as night. took an hour to get to boil with such a weak flame.
 
Did you figure the problem out yet? I'm curious as I'm having a little trouble with my similar 2 burner set up.
One burner is fine, but the other produces a very yellow flame even with the air manifold wide open. I can improve the blue-ness of the flame by closing the flow valve down a bit, or by actually blowing into the air intake on the manifold! I'm using low pressure valves from homebrewstuff.com , 1/2" BIP service from a two stage regulator on a 40lb tank of propane. The Camco 59333 regulator is rated for 160,000 BTU/hr and the rubber supply hose from there to the BIP is likely a little restrictive as it's only 3/8".

As I write this it occurs to me that maybe I should disassemble tomorrow and look for an obstruction in the orifice.

If anyone out there had suggestions on way to improve my flame quality I'm all ears. The BG 14 burners are ok on LP, but not really any more output than I saw with the HP 6" burner I used previously. It still takes me an hour to heat my HLT to mash temperatures.

Chris
 
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