Should I increase grain amounts by 10% for first all grain batch

[stevehardt]

After 20 extract batches, I'm finally ready to start my first all grain batch. Is it a good idea for a beginning all grain brewer to increase the grain amounts by 10% to compensate for efficiency issues? My mash tun is large enough to accomodate the increase volume.

Am I correct in assuming if a person does this they should leave thier mash in and sparge water volumes the same.

Thanks!

 

[BrewerBear]

I would not try to compensate for efficiency issues you don't even know if you have yet. I would brew and then see where you are at first.

Your mash and sparge water volumes should stay the same as the recipe.

 

[Varmintman]

I would say no and no. You need to find out what your system is capable of before changing the grain bill and if I understood correct you are asking if the strike water remains the same no matter the grain bill? You should be mashing with a set amount of water per pound of grain. You will get different ideas from what other people suggest but I would suggest using beer smith to get your volumes.

 

[stevehardt]

I would not try to compensate for efficiency issues you don't even know if you have yet. I would brew and then see where you are at first.

Your mash and sparge water volumes should stay the same as the recipe.

This makes perfect sense when you put it this way. Excellent point.

Thanks!

 

[Terek]

I would not try to compensate for efficiency issues you don't even know if you have yet. I would brew and then see where you are at first.

Your mash and sparge water volumes should stay the same as the recipe.

First part is true. I did a lot of research and built my own mash equipment tailored to how I brew and what I use, i got %76 eff. My first all grain. If I had added 10% I would have had a whole new set of problems.

Second part, you would up your water bill. You should use a certain amount of water per grain weight. Then, you just boil longer before hop additions to loose the extra volume. I have done this when I got a bad crush and a very low eff. I sparged an extra 2 gallons and boiled down to get the last little bit of sugars. Brought my pre boil from 1.035 to 1.044 which was a great help considering it was supposed to be 1.054

 

[beergolf]

Brew the recipe as it is. Then calculate your efficiency. After a few brews you should have a good handle on what your efficiency is and you can adjust accordingly. You want to aim for good constant efficiency. It is better to have a lower efficiency than to get 85% one time and 65% the next.

Using my LHBS crush I get 73% almost every time. I set my efficiency in my brew software and it works just great. I hit my OG numbers almost right on the money so I am happy with that.

 

[kanzimonson]

I'll be a dissenter and say I think you might be onto a good idea here. Many first time brewers take a recipe they find online from an experienced brewer with a dialed in system, brew it, and then find that their efficiency was way lower than the original brewer. My first AG was about 67%, but once I learned my system it went up to 75-78%.

Instead of boosting everything by 10%, just use a brewing calculator and choose something like 65-68% for your expected efficiency. Then make what it tells you. Make sure to take a preboil gravity so that if you're high/low, you can pour wort out/add DME.

 

[jCOSbrew]

IMO it would be useful to plug the recipe into one of the online apps to determine the efficiency of the recipe as designed. I would design recipe for the 70% efficiency range for the first couple batches.

Also plan to measure volumes and gravity pre and post boil so you can calculate your brewhouse efficiency.

 

[progmac]

the question isn't 'should i increase grain by X%'

the question instead should be, 'what efficiency should i target?'

i'd recommend targeting 70% efficiency. but keep a bag of DME on hand. if you are more than 5 points off your expected OG, add enough DME directly to the fermenter as needed to get to your expected OG.

 

[carton132]

I'll just offer my own little anecdote here and say it's not a bad idea. My first all-grain brew I was worried about efficiency and didn't want to end up with a really weak brew. I wanted to make an IPA, so I went ahead and bought enough ingredients for a double IPA. I knew if my efficiency was bad I'd still have a nice IPA; if my efficiency was good, well, I'd have a nice double IPA. Win either way. It turned out my efficiency really was lower than I wanted but I ended up with a great 7% IPA and I was extremely happy with the end product.

I guess I'd just ask a question: Would you be more upset with a low OG or a high OG? I erred on the side of high and it worked out in my situation.

 

[max384]

I don't think it's a bad idea to adjust the recipe for a lower expected efficiency. I'd probably adjust the recipe for a 60-65% efficiency for your first batch. If you're fly sparging, you can check the pre-boil wort gravity as you're going (even better if you have a refractometer for this), and stop the sparge early if you overshoot your expected efficiency. My first couple of AG brews I was around 50% and didn't know or think of adding DME, so I had some really light beers.

If you keep some DME on hand, it wouldn't be much of a problem to way undershoot the recipe's efficiency, since you can get your OG right where you want it regardless.

 

[heckler73]

my experience going from 35 Extract batches to my first few AG's, is that my OG is spot on, but my volumes are to be improved. I'm still ending up with too much head space in my secondary, even though I've been maxing out my mash water volume (5 Gal drink cooler) and increasing the sparge volumes to amounts that seem like lots, but I have yet to bottle a full 5 Gallon batch.

 

[Croyzen]

Don't expect to understand your efficiency issues by taking a hydrometer gravity reading right before pitching yeast and discovering you are low, high, right on. A refractometer is a required piece of equipment in my opinion. Get used to taking readings on your batches as you learn your system. I would highly advise using beersmith and using the default efficiency as a start which is in the low 70s. Take refractometer readings during first runnings, the sparge(s), pre-boil, and before pitching. There are places in beersmith to add these values. If you brew a recipe from beersmith you can see how you stack up against the original. You can go back to recipes and check on progress. After several brews you can then set your efficiency based on collected data. You'll know what that is after some time on your system.

I would only use the grain called for in the recipes. If you're low and you have some gravity readings you can then begin to troubleshoot. Maybe the sparge runnings are lower than they should be. You can then look at that part of your technique. There are a bunch of things that can help your gravity come up. Looking at water, the crush, technique (huge), and more practice on your system are a few things that will boost your efficiency. If you throw more grains at the problem, do that when you are consistently hitting efficiency numbers and you're happy with it.

 

[dobe12]

the question isn't 'should i increase grain by X%'

the question instead should be, 'what efficiency should i target?'

i'd recommend targeting 70% efficiency. but keep a bag of DME on hand. if you are more than 5 points off your expected OG, add enough DME directly to the fermenter as needed to get to your expected OG.

This ^^^^ is sound logic.

You can't compensate for efficiency loss (or gain for that matter) without knowing what type of efficiency you get with your system. And really, you won't know that until you've brewed several batches with varying grain amounts.

Get your recipe set using 70% efficiency and see where you are from there. Then brew another and another with roughly the same size grain bill. Then try a batch with a smaller grain bill (maybe 2-4lbs less) then try another with a larger grain bill (2-4lbs more) and see what you get. You have to learn your system and work out any kinks to see where you are. Then you can start making adjustments. But again, you want to adjust your efficiency numbers to get your recipe where it should be for a certain beer. You don't just want to start upping the grain bill by 10% without having any prior knowledge of what you may get in the end.

 

[JR_Brewer]

Here's yet another point of view...

Why don't you brew per the recipe, and have 1-2 lbs of DME standing by in case your efficiency is far off. Calculate after your mash, and compensate with the DME as required late in the boil. If you end up not using the DME, it will save and you can use it in a starter in the future.

But do what you're comfortable with... there's no wrong answer here. High/low SG beer is still beer, you'll still learn about your system, and you'll be in a better place to plan your future brews.

Good luck!

 

[divrguy]

Do you have Beersmith or something else as good? I would brew it as is according to the recipe. Use your closest equipment profile and take a lot of notes. Use the default efficiency and see where you end up. One thing at a time is the simplest and easiest way to begin brewing. If you know your stuff and it's a fairly simple recipe, you should be fairly close.



Cheers!