Shame in chucking?

[Homercidal]

I think a valid point being made by Demus is that, some of the more experienced brewers, that do have yeast starters/pitching, ferm. temp control, recipe calculation, etc. Etc. down to a fine art, would be well justified in dumping a batch that doesn't hit their level of expectation, but a novice brewer would probably benefit from allowing a bit more time for their brews to age because not having some of the fundamental processes well controlled can lead to a beer that might well overcome those shortcomings after some more maturation.

This. I agree with those who say give your beer time to improve. This is great advice to the newer brewers who are unsure or inexperienced and may have brewed too warm or underpitched, etc. Some of that can clear up and some doesn't.

I've still got a Witbier recipe that I've found tastes better when a few weeks matured. Most of my Pale Ales and Stouts were fine right away.

 

[BrewRock_54]

If it is beginning to annoy you looking at a non drinkable beer then throw it away. Take pleasure in the fact that you are making room for a beer that you want to drink.

 

[ktblunden]

I've only dumped one batch, an IPA that missed OG by over 20 points and was hopped as originally intended. It was so overbearingly bitter with no flavor to back it up that it went down the drain. Looking back, my only regret is that I didn't save some of it for cooking.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Is there shame in throwing away a drinakable beer that gives you no pleasure?

Well, no, if you have no fear of the Beer Gods smiting you, then go right ahead and pour that beer right down the drain without a single care in the world. La de dah! Here we go, wasting beer that I believe is beneath me to put to my lips! Billions and billions of yeasts gave their lives to make me this beer, but I don't care, because I am a heartless beer snob! Wheee!

 

[Pappers_]

Well, no, if you have no fear of the Beer Gods smiting you, then go right ahead and pour that beer right down the drain without a single care in the world. La de dah! Here we go, wasting beer that I believe is beneath me to put to my lips! Billions and billions of yeasts gave their lives to make me this beer, but I don't care, because I am a heartless beer snob! Wheee!

What if you have a memorial service for the yeast?

 

[LandoLincoln]

What if you have a memorial service for the yeast?

Certainly some kind of recompense or display of remorse is warranted for this heresy.

 

[Shooter]

I had one batch early on that I should have dumped, it wasn’t completely undrinkable, but it was also not even decent. I’d be hesitant to dump now, not so much for cost, but for the amount of time I had into the beer. After a long brew day, I would likely keep it and with every sip think about what went wrong…so that it would never happen again. I’ve been lucky so far and never really had that issue. Some are better than others, but all are drinkable. I can, however, imagine beers I would dump. I’ve tasted some from new brewers that I probably wouldn’t keep.

Also, the yeast bite can be an issue. I prime my kegs with sugar. I transfer them to the keezer and try to let them sit for a couple of days to let the yeast settle back down. The first pint I dump, lots of yeast, but I can still taste yeast settling out for another day or two, not so much that I pour them out, but I can taste it.

 

[nickmv]

I had one batch early on that I should have dumped, it wasn’t completely undrinkable, but it was also not even decent. I’d be hesitant to dump now, not so much for cost, but for the amount of time I had into the beer. After a long brew day, I would likely keep it and with every sip think about what went wrong…so that it would never happen again. I’ve been lucky so far and never really had that issue. Some are better than others, but all are drinkable. I can, however, imagine beers I would dump. I’ve tasted some from new brewers that I probably wouldn’t keep.

Also, the yeast bite can be an issue. I prime my kegs with sugar. I transfer them to the keezer and try to let them sit for a couple of days to let the yeast settle back down. The first pint I dump, lots of yeast, but I can still taste yeast settling out for another day or two, not so much that I pour them out, but I can taste it.

Once you brew enough, it all blends together and is a long blur. I dont miss the batches I dumped, because I had 2-3 other batches just waiting to be tapped.

 

[weirdboy]

Sometimes brewers equate 'green' with 'young' or 'not ready' beer, but that's really not accurate. Green is often a short-hand for a green apple flavor, kind of tart, a little edge to your teeth. Acetaldehyde is usually the cause. It is a fermentation product, a precursor to ethanol if I'm remembering right.

In any case, the key to not having acetaldehyde (or perceivable amounts of it) in your beer is fermentation management - enough healthy yeast pitched into oxygenated wort at the right temperature will usually avoid this problem.

If you end up with acetaldehyde, though, after active fermentation, the yeast will continue to work and will sometimes absorb some of it back. But its not perfect and if the acetaldehyde is prominant, longer aging will usually make the beer more palatable but will not get rid of the green apple flavor entirely.

Hope this helps!

Racking the beer out of primary and/or cold crashing too soon can leave your beer with acetaldehyde...the yeast tend to clean up those flavors in the latter stages of fermentation.

 

[Shooter]

Once you brew enough, it all blends together and is a long blur. I dont miss the batches I dumped, because I had 2-3 other batches just waiting to be tapped.

That is true, sometimes I look back at my brewing log and can't believe I've brewed and drank all this beer and I'm not brewing every week or anything. It has been an interesting four years, that's for sure!

 

[AnOldUR]

Racking the beer out of primary and/or cold crashing too soon can leave your beer with acetaldehyde...the yeast tend to clean up those flavors in the latter stages of fermentation.

I don't think that anyone would argue this point. The debate seems to be over what constitutes "too" soon. I'm in the camp that says that 1-3 days after fermentation has ended is enough to clean up acetaldehyde and other “green” flavors in most well-made average gravity beer. Three to four weeks should not be necessary and is a disservice to some styles.



edit:
That reminds me. I have an Ordinary Bitter brewed nine days ago that really should be in a keg. I'm not waiting for it to get better, just being lazy.

 

[Clonefan94]

I think my big concern is more with why the OP is producing so many beers he deems undrinkable? I started back in August as well and have produced roughly the same amount of 5 gallon batches. I only have had one that was "Bad" and a couple of others that were drinkable, the rest have all been pretty good, at least to my palette. The thing is, aging my beer didn't improve them, bettter techniques, filtering water and good practices did.

OK, aging may have helped some of the OP's beers, but in reality, if they don't taste good with my final gravity sample, then I would assume the beer isn't going to be good. So what is the part/parts of his process that are causing him to produce bad beer? And honestly, the only beers I've really had improve with age, are the two porters I've brewed so far.

 

[ktblunden]

I think my big concern is more with why the OP is producing so many beers he deems undrinkable? I started back in August as well and have produced roughly the same amount of 5 gallon batches. I only have had one that was "Bad" and a couple of others that were drinkable, the rest have all been pretty good, at least to my palette. The thing is, aging my beer didn't improve them, bettter techniques, filtering water and good practices did.

OK, aging may have helped some of the OP's beers, but in reality, if they don't taste good with my final gravity sample, then I would assume the beer isn't going to be good. So what is the part/parts of his process that are causing him to produce bad beer? And honestly, the only beers I've really had improve with age, are the two porters I've brewed so far.

That's a pretty good point. I've produced about the same number of batches and only had the one that really ended up undrinkable. The rest I have enjoyed quite a bit (other than the Wit I made for my wife, I hate the style but she loves that batch). Some I found to be "pretty good" but a few have turned out excellent. The single change I made that made the biggest impact on the finished product was temperature control during fermentation. My Bourbon Stout and my Wee Heavy continue to improve with age, but I can definitely notice a dropoff in flavor with most of the others as they age.

 

[AnOldUR]

It's not that they were undrinkable. But a man can only drink so many beers, so I chose to drink commercial beer instead.

I think that Ugly Baby Syndrome is rampant among new homebrewers. Apparently the OP is not affected by it. :cross:

 

[Roadliner]

Shame??? not in getting rid of it. absolutely not. I've only ever dumped my first batch.. cause it was, quite frankly, awful. I waited for almost a year and it still sucked. so I dumped all but the 6 bottles i'd tried through the year. But either way, like others have said. it's your beer, do with it as you please.

however shame in dumping.. YES!!!!! There are friends, family, random strangers, and children in India who would love to drink the beers that you said weren't bad! Give it away!

in all seriousness though... do with your beer what you please and enjoy the hobby.

 

[nickmv]

I don't think that anyone would argue this point. The debate seems to be over what constitutes "too" soon. I'm in the camp that says that 1-3 days after fermentation has ended is enough to clean up acetaldehyde and other “green” flavors in most well-made average gravity beer. Three to four weeks should not be necessary and is a disservice to some styles.

This. I kegged BierMuncher's Blue Balls Belgian Wit after 6 days, and it was delicious. Most beer is clear of acetaldehyde well before a week.

 

[nickmv]

Shame??? not in getting rid of it. absolutely not. I've only ever dumped my first batch.. cause it was, quite frankly, awful. I waited for almost a year and it still sucked. so I dumped all but the 6 bottles i'd tried through the year. But either way, like others have said. it's your beer, do with it as you please.

however shame in dumping.. YES!!!!! There are friends, family, random strangers, and children in India who would love to drink the beers that you said weren't bad! Give it away!

in all seriousness though... do with your beer what you please and enjoy the hobby.

You need to remember how many people you don't realize have dumped the beer you gave to them. Ive been given 2L of beer before by a homebrewer, tasted it, and immediately dumped it because it was horrible.

I'm not going to tell him that because it's crappy to do, so he'll never know I dumped it. But keep that in mind when you say "other people will drink it".

If YOU are the one that made it and you STILL wont drink it, other people surely aren't going to either.

 

[Teromous]

My philosophy is that if you are thinking about whether or not to dump a beer you've poured, you've already come to the conclusion that you don't like it. Unless there's some other use for it, or reason why you should keep drinking, you should pour it. Your drinking experience should not be hampered by a bad beer, let alone a mental debate.

 

[nickmv]

My philosophy is that if you are thinking about whether or not to dump a beer you've poured, you've already come to the conclusion that you don't like it. Unless there's some other use for it, or reason why you should keep drinking, you should pour it. Your drinking experience should not be hampered by a bad beer, let alone a mental debate.

You pretty much nailed it. You're not going to think about dumping a batch unless you're pretty damn certain you're going to NOT drink it.

 

[AnOldUR]

Hey nickmv, I want my growler back.

 

[IffyG]

Is there shame in throwing away a drinakable beer that gives you no pleasure?

There is no shame in dumping your beer. I dump quickly and mercilessly as I only have enough space in my kegerator for one 5g and two 3g cornies. If i'm not drinking and my roommate doesn't like it either, out it goes in favor of something else. Life is too short to drink ****ty beer just because you made it.

 

[harrymanback92]

Dumping is fine.

However, the beers I made that are just "meh" I use to cook with. That way I still get something out of it, if I need the bottles, the beer has a date with the drain.

 

[sid_marx]

Thanks for all the replies and the wide range of viewpoints expressed

Chimay Blue, St Bernardus ABT 12, Westmalle Trippel and similar examples are my benchmarks and they're what I measure my own beers against. They are the beers I love to drink and when I have a beer I want be to drinking it because the experience is awesome. There is no room in my life for un-awesome beers!

Here's why I dumped my beers:

Beer 1: Chimay Blue clone attempt

• I didn't notice the dry extract was "hopped", I then went and added 3 times the weight of hop pellets the recipe called for because the cheap scales I used were horribly inaccurate.
• Used dehydrated yeast - Safale WB-06 because I didn't know how to bottle culture and didn't know liquid yeast was available.

Beer #2 Another try using White Labs Chimay strain and LME instead of DME

• Undercarbed
• Overpowering banana flavour
• Weird chalky mouthfeel
• High terminal gravity

Beer #3 Another LME attempt, same yeast

• High terminal gravity
• Very malty, very sweet

Beer #4 Another LME attempt at Chimay

• High terminal gravity
• Thick oily mouthfeel
• Sweet and cloying

Beer #5 Achel Bruin Extra clone attempt - BIAB/LME and bottle cultured yeast

• Tasted like a Belgian stout

Beer #6 Trippel attempt - BIAB/LME, bottle cultured yeast, spices

• Spices (particularly the citrus peel) were overpowering
• High terminal gravity

Beer #7 Pious New World Westvleteren clone attempt with White Labs Westmalle yeast (AG)

• Overshot OG by a huge margin
• Underpitched yeast
• High terminal gravity
• When I couldn't get the gravity down I did some crazy sh*t that I don't have time to explain right now

...this one I haven't dumped, but that's because it was a big batch and opening and emptying corked 'n' caged bottles is hard work.

My biggest problem, with the benefit of hindsight, is that I just couldn't make a strong dry beer with LME. They all finished up way too sweet and heavy. Aging would not have made them more digestible. I tried for Trappist and ended up with flawed Abbey or worse.

Beers I haven't dumped and don't intend to:
#8 Another, more successful, attempt at Pious New World Westvleteren clone (AG)
#9 Belgian Golden Strong Ale (AG)
#10 Pious Traditional Westvleteren clone (AG)
# 11 Belgian Quad split batch using Chimay and Unibroue strains (AG)
# 12 Saison with du Pont strain (AG)

13 - 16 are in various stages of not ready yet, but I have a fairly high level of confidence that they'll be fine.

I've learned a lot making my first 16 batches and have identified flaws and made process improvements at pretty much every step along the way. I still consider myself very much a novice beer maker with a lot to learn.

Thanks for the good ideas for what to do with beer you don't want to drink:

• Water the garden
• Make stew
• Marinate meat
• Spritz the BBQ

Any other ideas?

 

[Pappers_]

Thanks for the good ideas for what to do with beer you don't want to drink:

• Water the garden
• Make stew
• Marinate meat
• Spritz the BBQ

Any other ideas?

Give to your enemies. Wait, doesn't everyone have an enemies list?

 

[jmh286]

Shame...not technically....but I think you're just being impatient. 16 batches in 7 months hardly gives time for the beer to ferment and age properly. Calm down and stop expecting the beer to be awesome 2 seconds after brewing it. I am glad I couldn't brew more than two beers a month when I first started, because it made me HAVE to wait for it to finish because I couldn't afford to buy beer. Beer isn't good after a week, even commercial brewers know this. :fro:

 

[Tizzomes]

There's no problem with dumping! I mean it's not like your flushing someones ashes down the toilet. As long as your enjoying the process ( which takes a long time) then live and learn. Nothing worse then trying to relax with a crappy brew. Cheers!

 

[Leadgolem]

Use it as slug/snail killer.

Slugs are attracted to beer. Set a small amount of beer in a shallow wide jar buried in the soil up to its neck. Slugs will crawl in and drown. Take the jar lid and prop it up with a small stick so rain won't dilute the beer. Leave space for slugs to enter the trap.

Also, no shame. Though I always find it interesting to keep a couple of bottles of even a horrendous brew, just to see if it does anything with time.

 

[Ogri]

Chimay Blue, St Bernardus ABT 12, Westmalle Trippel and similar examples are my benchmarks and they're what I measure my own beers against. They are the beers I love to drink and when I have a beer I want be to drinking it because the experience is awesome. There is no room in my life for un-awesome beers!

Here's why I dumped my beers:...........................................

I suppose it's understandable now. Quite a high goal to set for your first few brewing achievements. Probably well on your way to being able to open your own brewpub down there with that resume:rockin:

 

[sudbuster]

Thanks for all the replies and the wide range of viewpoints expressed

Chimay Blue, St Bernardus ABT 12, Westmalle Trippel and similar examples are my benchmarks and they're what I measure my own beers against. They are the beers I love to drink and when I have a beer I want be to drinking it because the experience is awesome. There is no room in my life for un-awesome beers!

Here's why I dumped my beers:..............
Any other ideas?

Well, sid, you are a brewer after my own heart, as they said once long ago. You have the taste you are after and are practicing and perfecting your brewing skills to achieve your goals. Any failed experiment is just that and no more. Your sights are high, which is good. Best of luck to you in your quest for beer of the utmost quality. I'll be looking for your name in the winners for future contests........

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

If you dump a bad beer, and there is no other homebrewer around to see it, did you really dump it at all?

I would suggest that you keep it untill you need the bottles/keg? If it still isn't good and you need to buy bottles for a new batch, ditch it. Just make sure no one else is watching!!!

That's exactly what I did with a batch I had that just didnt turn out. I stored em away seeing if they'd get any better and one day I knew I needed bottles. So I tried one, it hadn't got any better after 6 months, so I dumped it and used the bottles for a much better beer.

 

[Demus]

Thanks for all the replies and the wide range of viewpoints expressed



Beer 1: Chimay Blue clone attempt

Beer #2 Another try using White Labs Chimay strain and LME instead of DME

Beer #3 Another LME attempt, same yeast

Beer #4 Another LME attempt at Chimay

Beer #5 Achel Bruin Extra clone attempt - BIAB/LME and bottle cultured yeast

Beer #6 Trippel attempt - BIAB/LME, bottle cultured yeast, spices

Beer #7 Pious New World Westvleteren clone attempt with White Labs Westmalle yeast (AG)

...this one I haven't dumped, but that's because it was a big batch and opening and emptying corked 'n' caged bottles is hard work.

My biggest problem, with the benefit of hindsight, is that I just couldn't make a strong dry beer with LME. They all finished up way too sweet and heavy. Aging would not have made them more digestible. I tried for Trappist and ended up with flawed Abbey or worse.


I've learned a lot making my first 16 batches and have identified flaws and made process improvements at pretty much every step along the way. I still consider myself very much a novice beer maker with a lot to learn.


Any other ideas?

Sid, a few things occurred to me as I read your list. First, you picked some pretty ambitious beers to "cut your teeth" on. You really jump in head first! Are there any more basic styles that you enjoy? You can learn a lot more about brewing when you brew simpler styles because it's easier to pinpoint how each ingredient influences the flavor, not to mention your chances for success go up dramatically.
Most of your issues are fermentation related with under attenuation being your main complaint (too sweet). The recipe can help with added simple sugars but your biggest friend with any beer is the yeast. Make them happy, especially Belgian strains, and they'll easily attenuate well into the 80% + range. I've have saison strains hit 90% attenuation! Complex, spicy clove notes and nice and dry. The key is pitch rate, proper nutrition, and temperature control. The most important nutrient is oxygen, so your aeration technique plays a huge factor in the final gravity and performance of the yeast. When you can make a simple style with confidence, go back to your advanced Belgian styles and I bet you'll be a lot happier with your results...

PS- If you like hefeweizen they are pretty easy. I do a "lazy man" hef in the summer with nothing but wheat extract, some noble hops and a good Bavarian wheat strain. Turns out great and my friends who know I'm an all grain brewer can't tell the difference!!

 

[progmac]

i have twice dumped half a beer at bottling. i knew it was never going to be good, but could maybe be drinkable eventually. so i saved half the batch in each case to mellow and drink when supplies got low.

it takes some time to learn which flavors mellow and which don't.

i have also dumped a full 5 gallon carboy once.

 

[nickmv]

Hey nickmv, I want my growler back.

You can pry it from my cold, hoppy hands.

 

[nickmv]

Thanks for the good ideas for what to do with beer you don't want to drink:

• Water the garden
• Make stew
• Marinate meat
• Spritz the BBQ

Any other ideas?

Yeah use it for food. It'll easily come in handy. For my chili I make from scratch, I refuse to add water, and only add stouts for liquid.


Also, as the guy above mentioned, I think a lot of your problems with dumping batches is that you're trying to make high-ABV Belgians, etc. For a newcomer to brewing, that's usually a suicide move, and will end their interest. Luckily, it seems to only have spurred you on.

If you like low ABV styles, you really need to try to brew some. I didnt get into high ABV stuff til my 6th or 7th beer, and even then, it wasn't great because I didn't understand just how important temp control was.

My advice: try to cool it with the crazy Belgians for a while, and get to the basics, brew some wheats, maybe some pales, etc, and learn how to perfect the easy stuff. It'll make life with high gravity so much easier.

 

[Piratwolf]

Beer isn't good after a week, even commercial brewers know this. :fro:

This is the mentality that Yuri and others were trying to combat at the start of this thread, and with which I strongly disagree as well. I'm not coming at you personally. It's just that this is one of those old homebrewing wives' tales that simply isn't true.

A beer made with a solid recipe, process, and fermentation control actually tastes delicious in the hydrometer sample. For my New Year's Eve party, I served a Rye Mild that was 9 days old--delicious!

All that being said, it can certainly be true that highly complex beers may taste BETTER after aging. I made an experimental Tart Cherry Farmhouse Braggot that was discordantat the start but has mellowed over six months into something that looks like it will be amazing. But if they taste terrible from the start, aging is unlikely to do more than take the edge off.

Again, nothing personal here. I'm just against the "all beer must be 1-3 months before you even think about drinking it" mantra that persists in the face of empirical evidence.

 

[nickmv]

A lot of the reason a brew can be ready in 7 days at a commercial place is the massive amount of filtration and cleaning processes they have for the beer, not to mention that when it's produced in mass quantities, beer fermentation tends to go much quicker.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Ever heard the saying cook with wine you'd drink? I think its the same when using beer as an ingredient in my food. If its not good enough to drink then the flavor isn't going to be good for cooking with either. Would you use chicken broth that tasted gross to make chicken soup?

 

[nickmv]

Exactly. After a week, nothing's going to change the overall flavor of the beer.

At best, it's going to slowly blend and mellow out, which will enrich/enhance the flavor, but the idea that aging a beer will transform it from something that sucked to something great is usually very rare.

 

[AnOldUR]

Ever heard the saying cook with wine you'd drink?

This and also how much beer can you use for cooking?

I've been kegging for over four years. I have a batch of bottles of an IPA from before that. Tasty beer, but for some reason it never carbed. Didn't really matter. I had other beer and moved on. We've been using it for cooking when needed all this time and there's still a few bottles left.

 

[IffyG]

A beer made with a solid recipe, process, and fermentation control actually tastes delicious in the hydrometer sample. For my New Year's Eve party, I served a Rye Mild that was 9 days old--delicious!

...

Again, nothing personal here. I'm just against the "all beer must be 1-3 months before you even think about drinking it" mantra that persists in the face of empirical evidence.

I agree with this viewpoint. If your beer (speaking of standard gravity beers) needs some age on it to be palatable, you have done something wrong. I'm drinking my my pale ales within 10-14 days of brewing 95% of the time.

The only exception I've noticed is for beer with darker grains as a large portion of the grain bill or high gravity beer. Those usually need to sit in the keg for a week or two of cold conditioning before they taste great to me. I should also add the caveat that sours DO need the extra aging to develop.