Secondary. I just don't get it

[redking11]

All I see in secondary is an increased risk of infection and air damage. what are the alleged Benefits. What are the guaranteed benefits?

 

[unionrdr]

Nothing is guarenteed or absoluter in brewing,first of all. If you're carefull with sanitiartion & cleaning EVERYTHING,& use a racking tube,then it's safe.
I don't bother with it,unless oaking or something like that. I even dry hop in primary. Secondary just isn't what the old timers thought it was. Not nowadays anyway.

 

[Yooper]

For beers that you want to age, especially on oak, it's nice to rack a clear beer out of the primary and onto the oak. (All of the trub can coat the oak).

If you want to age a long time without picking up yeast character, a clearing vessel ("secondary") is helpful.

Some people like to rack to a carboy after fermentation slows, but the beer isn't ready to package, to free up a primary fermenter.

When I have a yeast strain that I want to rinse and save, and I'm dryhopping, sometimes I'll rack so I can harvest that yeast without adding hops debris to it.

 

[Arg1129]

Though I am new to brewing I like to use the secondary for two reasons.

1) I like to dry hop in it. I am able to get the beer off the main yeas cake and trube and onto fresh hops.

2) I also like to use it to clear longer aging beers and free up my only 6.5 carboy.

To reduce the risks you just need to be diligent with sanitizing and co2 purging. If you purge the vessel and hoses first you are not going to oxidize your beer. At least I have yet to on the 3 batches I have used a secondary on. Then again I am impressed with my other three batches that I did not use a secondary on.

Sorry to muddy the water a tad...

 

[redking11]

My kit recommended secondary, and I used to be a big fan of it based on the books that I initially read, but after being around a little while i kept hearing that it really does;t improve the quality of your beer. I was also sold on really aging my beer, keeping it in secondary for several weeks after fermentation had stopped. I went out and bought 2, 5 gallon carboys just for secondary and now I don't use them. Anyone want to buy them . As for aging, I still like to let the beer sit around for a week or two after fermentation stops, I also like them to age in the bottle for 2-3 wees as well. Don't ask me why, I just think it improves flavor and balance.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

My kit recommended secondary, and I used to be a big fan of it based on the books that I initially read, but after being around a little while i kept hearing that it really does;t improve the quality of your beer. I was also sold on really aging my beer, keeping it in secondary for several weeks after fermentation had stopped. I went out and bought 2, 5 gallon carboys just for secondary and now I don't use them. Anyone want to buy them . As for aging, I still like to let the beer sit around for a week or two after fermentation stops, I also like them to age in the bottle for 2-3 wees as well. Don't ask me why, I just think it improves flavor and balance.

save those 5's for small batches or mead! there will be a point where you'll regret getting rid of them.

 

[bobmcstuff]

I don't usually secondary, except when I'm intending to add additional flavours or ingredients. I often rack onto the additional ingredient.

The whole thing about yeast autolysis, which is supposedly one of the major downsides of not using a secondary, strikes me as being a massive homebrewer's myth (along with a number of others).

 

[Billy-Klubb]

I don't usually secondary, except when I'm intending to add additional flavours or ingredients. I often rack onto the additional ingredient.

The whole thing about yeast autolysis, which is supposedly one of the major downsides of not using a secondary, strikes me as being a massive homebrewer's myth (along with a number of others).

autolysis is real. but you gotta forget that beer in primary for quite a long time. it tastes (to me) like rotting meat. I haven't forgotten a batch since.

 

[fizgig]

Yeast available to home brewers and proper pitch rates have gotten a lot better as well, years back low quality stressed yeast was a real problem.

 

[Avocet]

Man I just like really clear beer-so I always go to secondary and then add gelatin at cold crash-then keg. Stuff that looks as clear as commercial brew just seems that much better to me.

 

[bobmcstuff]

autolysis is real. but you gotta forget that beer in primary for quite a long time. it tastes (to me) like rotting meat. I haven't forgotten a batch since.

Yeah I don't doubt that it can happen, but as you say it does take a while and for most homebrewers who do primary/secondary ferms of only a few weeks at most it isn't the bogeyman it's made out to be.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

Yeah I don't doubt that it can happen, but as you say it does take a while and for most homebrewers who do primary/secondary ferms of only a few weeks at most it isn't the bogeyman it's made out to be.

I agree.

 

[bovineblitz]

Racking onto fruit/massive amounts of dry hops are the only reasons I do it. I probably do it 2-3 times a year max.

 

[boydster]

Man I just like really clear beer-so I always go to secondary and then add gelatin at cold crash-then keg. Stuff that looks as clear as commercial brew just seems that much better to me.

I've got a pale ale that is as clear as any commercial brew I've ever seen - including the "great" American lagers. Primary only, pellet dry hops added to primary 5 days before bottling, no gelatin or other finings... just malt, hops, water, and yeast. Good technique and process can result in very clear beer without the need for secondary.

 

[bovineblitz]

I've got a pale ale that is as clear as any commercial brew I've ever seen - including the "great" American lagers. Primary only, pellet dry hops added to primary 5 days before bottling, no gelatin or other finings... just malt, hops, water, and yeast. Good technique and process can result in very clear beer without the need for secondary.

I make a beer where part of the procedure is to drop the temp, rack the 5gal onto 5oz pellet hops, let the temp rise back up, then cold crash it again before bottling. It seems to brighten the hop flavor quite a bit. In general I just dry hop in primary but I think there can be a benefit.

 

[brewcephus]

New brewer here, but I'll chime in. I've only brewed 4 batches thus far, brewed 2 today but they don't count in these numbers.

Of the 4 batches I've brewed I racked 3 to the secondary. The 4th batch was an oatmeal stout, so imo there was no need to secondary as it was a very dark beer so it doesn't really matter for clarities sake.

Back to the point though, I will only secondary when I dry hop.

just my 2 cents

 

[Dirty25]

I only secondary when I need my 2 6.5g fermenters for something else. A quad or a RIS benifits from aging so I will do it in a secondary vessel to free up my fermenters. Also sour beers need that 12+ month aging so I do it in secondary fermenters.

I have to make wise use of my carboys. I would just get more 6.5g carboys if I could but shipping to Germany is expensive....

 

[Yooper]

Here's something to consider, for those who value clear beer. I want clear beer, always, but I don't use finings since I'm an old hippie type who won't use gelatin or other non-vegan ingredients.

This picture is of a dryhopped, primary only, 3 week old beer. No finings, except for whirlfloc in the kettle. It was in primary 7 days, then dryhopped in that primary for 7 days, then kegged. Here it is, less than one month after brewing:



It seems to me that it's pretty clear, less than a month after brewday.

 

[bovineblitz]

Here's something to consider, for those who value clear beer. I want clear beer, always, but I don't use finings since I'm an old hippie type who won't use gelatin or other non-vegan ingredrients.

This picture is of a dryhopped, primary only, 3 week old beer. No finings, except for whirlfloc in the kettle. It was in primary 7 days, then dryhopped in that primary for 7 days, then kegged. Here it is, less than one month after brewing:

View attachment 125805

It seems to me that it's pretty clear, less than a month after brewday.

Yeah, my conclusion after having read the arguments a thousand times over is that primary vs secondary has little to zero effect on clarity.

 

[Billy-Klubb]

Here's something to consider, for those who value clear beer. I want clear beer, always, but I don't use finings since I'm an old hippie type who won't use gelatin or other non-vegan ingredients.

This picture is of a dryhopped, primary only, 3 week old beer. No finings, except for whirlfloc in the kettle. It was in primary 7 days, then dryhopped in that primary for 7 days, then kegged. Here it is, less than one month after brewing:

View attachment 125805

It seems to me that it's pretty clear, less than a month after brewday.

I don't know. I can't make out that word under "Hatchery".

 

[hampshirebrewer]

I only use a secondary fermenter when "dropping" a pilsner a day after pitching to move the beer off the trub or if I am using the yeast cake in the primary for a bigger beer. Like this month's Wee Heavy.

It seems a secondary might be a good idea to limit hop debris in the bottling bucket for huge dry hopping like the Surly Furious clones out there calling for 8 oz of hop pellets (dry hop in primary then rack to secondary).

 

[mamies]

I like to secondary when dry hopping. I re-use my yeast so dry hopping in secondary means that I have less hop matter to seperate from the yeast.

 

[unionrdr]

I dry hop in primary,but I use hop sacks to contain the debris.

 

[Avocet]

See Yooper my beer is so clear I can translate Miami newspapers to English thru my Sam Adams Turbo glass!!!

I don't always use gelatin-always use Irish moss or Whirfloc in boil and Isinglass when I go to secondary. I like to use gelatin to "sink out" hops when I dry hop in secondary.

And I am a yeast re-user as well so secondary leaves me a cleaner, more viable slurry to work with.

I'm sure a million other people got a million other methods-but I'm a stubborn German so I will stick to what works for me!

 

[Yooper]

See Yooper my beer is so clear I can translate Miami newspapers to English thru my Sam Adams Turbo glass!!!

I don't always use gelatin-always use Irish moss or Whirfloc in boil and Isinglass when I go to secondary. I like to use gelatin to "sink out" hops when I dry hop in secondary.

And I am a yeast re-user as well so secondary leaves me a cleaner, more viable slurry to work with.

I'm sure a million other people got a million other methods-but I'm a stubborn German so I will stick to what works for me!

Yep, whatever works is the "best". I don't use Isinglass due to its origin, but many people do.

I just don't use finings (except for whirlfloc) at all, even in winemaking. Although I had some dandelion wine that just would NOT clear, so I used sparkelloid. It works "ok", probably not as good as isinglass, but I don't have any objection to the sparkelloid like I do with isinglass, gelatin, or KC superkleer finings.

I usually don't bother with a secondary, but sometimes I do if I want to harvest the yeast and don't want 2 more ounces of dryhop material in the trub.

Either way, the beer ends up tasting and looking the same in the end.

 

[Avocet]

Wow no fish products either?

Guess I won't prod you for jerky recipes!!!

Rock on chick! And more power to ya!!!

 

[kingogames]

Everyone knows this topic has been beat to death, but every time there is a primary v. secondary thread, I always read it!

 

[Yooper]

Wow no fish products either?

Guess I won't prod you for jerky recipes!!!

Rock on chick! And more power to ya!!!

Oh, I eat meat and lots of it! It's just that I want my beer and wine "vegan friendly" because they won't be expecting fish bladders and cow hooves in those products. Unlike a big hunk of meat on the grill- that's sort of obvious!

 

[Demus]

I think a big benefit of primary only is a simpler process with less opportunity for mistakes. I wish the beginners kits and literature (kit instructions) would be revised but I don't think the retailers want to give up the sales of those extra carboys!

 

[ObsidianJester]

I've adjusted what I brew but when I see the need for a secondary I look at the length of the aging I will be doing. If I'm doing a bigger beer that will age for more than two or three weeks on the primary yeast cake then I would want to pull it. Anything that is going to be bottled before five weeks I leave alone in the primary ferment bucket. I have two or three primary fermenting buckets going at times so space is not an issue but I would see pulling something If I needed a bucket.

Really though if it is something that benefits in aging then I would use the secondary. Otherwise I leave it alone.

 

[Avocet]

OK well let me add this to my thoughts of using secondary-I have 3 refrigerators so space is NOT a problem. In fact one can hold three 6.5 gallon carboys--so I'm not jammed up for space-oh yes I'm a single man too and I can do things like dry out lines by hanging off ceiling fan, or have a carboy in house frig to cold crash (well only other things in there are like mustard , bbq sauce, pickles) so I have less limited constraints than many others.

I just am going to stand pat although I have a buddy using low P.S.I. gas in Corny now as secondary so I am going to check out his results.

 

[pjj2ba]

All I see in secondary is an increased risk of infection and air damage. what are the alleged Benefits. What are the guaranteed benefits?

Not a benefit to some, but the flavors are a bit different when comparing primary only to secondaried beers. This is more evident the lighter the beer style. If one really prefers the flavor of secondaried beers, then they will figure out a way to minimize the risk of infection, O2 exposure etc. For many others, it is not worth the bother. Still though, the flavors do change with the two methods

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

I do secondaries on things that I'm aging, but I use a purged corny for the job rather than a carboy, that way I have no more O2 pickup than when I normally keg, and I can do a simple closed transfer to a serving keg when I'm done aging. Most beers though go right into the serving keg from my primary.

 

[McBrewskie]

Yep, whatever works is the "best". I don't use Isinglass due to its origin, but many people do.

I just don't use finings (except for whirlfloc) at all, even in winemaking. Although I had some dandelion wine that just would NOT clear, so I used sparkelloid. It works "ok", probably not as good as isinglass, but I don't have any objection to the sparkelloid like I do with isinglass, gelatin, or KC superkleer finings.

I usually don't bother with a secondary, but sometimes I do if I want to harvest the yeast and don't want 2 more ounces of dryhop material in the trub.

Either way, the beer ends up tasting and looking the same in the end.

Yoop, what are your objections to these finings? Just interested as you mention origins and such.

 

[unionrdr]

Isinglass is made from fish trim bladders. Odd to me...I use super moss instead.

 

[McBrewskie]

Isinglass is made from fish trim bladders. Odd to me...I use super moss instead.

So someone is putting fish bladders to good use? Nice. Not trying to offend Yooper, I just had no idea and being someone who hunts and fishes the more of the animal that can be put to use the better.

 

[unionrdr]

Agreed. But I'd have never thought that one up,& I'm German...

 

[McBrewskie]

Agreed. But I'd have never thought that one up,& I'm German...

Well being Scottish I'm surprised I haven't tied one on and thought "beer is good, haggis is good, I should throw animal intestines in the primary!".

 

[unionrdr]

I'm a little Scotch & Irish myself. The story goes that one of my German ancestors got mixed up with some highlanders & married into the family of an Irish warlord to keep the peace around Sir William's time. Then toss an Apache chief in there with some Slovak. not even a drunken German gynocologist could've thought this one up!...
So maybe I should brew an altheavytizwin in a haggis???

 

[NewJersey]

ive always racked to secondary, but i have three beers currently fermenting that i am not going to rack to secondary. will be dry hopping in primary too.
im interested to see how theyll turn out