Second Mead Batch, Want to use Champagne Yeast, advice?

[Damgaard]

Hi all, thank you for the amazing information you provide, I've spent hours pouring through the threads and have learned quite a bit through them. I am starting a new batch today and have a couple of questions.

I racked my first batch of mead into the secondary fermentation carboy and it seems to be coming along nicely (started on March 3rd, racked today, March 16th). The first batch was the very simple recipe from stormthecastle.com using bread yeast. Since I didn't own a hydrometer when I put it together I don't know what the initial readings were, so I have to kind of guess where I am...so for that batch I'm kind of just feeling around in the dark

For this next (one gallon) batch I'm planning on using the following:

3 Pounds Raw Clover Honey
30 Raisins
1/5 Package (approximately one gram) Red Star Champagne Yeast (package says it will do up to five gallons, so I figured I would just reduce it accordingly)

After initial fermentation / racking I want to add two split vanilla beans to the party to add a finish of vanilla flavor.

My questions are:

Is the the appropriate amount of yeast, and should I rehydrate before pitching? (I assume I would have a problem if I added too much?)

Since I'm not using any orange fruit / rind / etc. will the 30 raisins provide enough nutrients for the yeast?

My thoughts on the vanilla is that the flavor would be better if I added it into the secondary, rather than at the beginning. Am I wrong on this?

Thank you for the patience with my questions, I'm thoroughly enjoying this new hobby...and it's teaching me lessons in patience


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[Damgaard]

I'm sorry, did I say I was learning to be patient? I'm also failing at that...miserably.

I went ahead with a different method after looking more through the threads. I want to drink this before a year or more, so I opted to go with what I had, which was fleishmans yeast.

Final recipe:

32 Ounces Mountain Ridge Raw Honey (it's nice and dark with a nice flavor)
12 Ounces Organic Raw Wildflower Honey
50 Raisens
1 package Fleishmans Yeast
Spring water to top to 1 Gal.

Beginning specific gravity of must: 1.112

I'm going to introduce two split vanilla beans when I rack it into secondary fermentation.

Here she sits, started bubbling less than an hour after I got the airlock on




American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[IJesusChrist]

auxillary flavorings are best added to secondary, there might be some exceptions that I'm not aware of. So you're right there.

I have no idea how fleischmanns is going to turn out. I'm guessing its going to be very fast, and you should rush to a brew store and pick up yeast nutrient.

I haven't done it with raisins, but if your goal is to save money - don't get into brewing. Good product and saving money don't go in the same sentence. I've tried, we all have, and those of us who are still here learned about it .

Also, you should only rack after hydrometer readings of the primary read the same thing for 2 or 3 consecutive days, otherwise you're not really doing anything, except losing potential mead at the bottom of every rack!

Patience.
The key to overcoming the patience issue isn't to rush a batch. Its to distract yourself by starting more ;D

 

[Damgaard]

auxillary flavorings are best added to secondary, there might be some exceptions that I'm not aware of. So you're right there.

I have no idea how fleischmanns is going to turn out. I'm guessing its going to be very fast, and you should rush to a brew store and pick up yeast nutrient.

I haven't done it with raisins, but if your goal is to save money - don't get into brewing. Good product and saving money don't go in the same sentence. I've tried, we all have, and those of us who are still here learned about it .

Also, you should only rack after hydrometer readings of the primary read the same thing for 2 or 3 consecutive days, otherwise you're not really doing anything, except losing potential mead at the bottom of every rack!

Patience.
The key to overcoming the patience issue isn't to rush a batch. Its to distract yourself by starting more ;D

Thanks for the reply buddy, I appreciate it.

I have another batch in secondary now that used Fleishmans per the recipe located at stormthecastle.com which included the raisins for their nutrient value. The reviews for the simple recipe are very good and the logic appears sound...plus it was something very easy to start with.

The specific gravity of the one I put together two weeks ago and just racked is sitting at 1.132 today. It is happily bubbling away again in its new carboy.

The original recipe called for 25 raisins plus one orange. I doubled it to 50 for this batch since I omitted the orange.

I actually like the thought of the raisins quite a bit since it gives the nutrients for the yeast naturally rather than from a packet. I'm liking mead for a number of reasons, but chiefly from a heritage standpoint. I am going to lean toward natural and hopefully historically available ingredients without additional additives if possible. Expense isn't the issue, nor is product availability (I live in Tampa and have several excellent brew supply stores handy).

We'll see how they turn out...and yes...I like the idea of turning my attention to new batches, I now have two empty carboys calling for ingredients. I have lots of ideas begging for oxygen


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[fatbloke]

Champagne yeast isn't bad......it's good at what its been developed for i.e. producing bland white wines but with a higher tolerance so it can be used to carbonate with the appropriate process.

its good for blowing aromatics and VOC's straight out the airlock.

HBS who recommend it are often mis-guided fools using sweeping generalisations due to the high sugar load of a mead must.......which is equally mistaken.

the must will be as high or low as you want it.......

as for picking and choosing ingredients ? Both Wills ones at StC or the JAO one are like that i.e. bread yeast, orange, raisins etc, usually to achieve a specific flavour profile and/or easy to make for a guaranteed result so its repeatable.

"cherry picking" the ingredients should be done with care as it can create unconsidered problems, maybe in the ferm management maybe in the secondary process or resulting flavours........

 

[Damgaard]

I initially went toward champagne yeast to try and get higher alcohol content, but as I researched it more it seems to come at the expense of length of time before the mead is drinkable. Since I'm doing 1 gallon batches I really don't want to wait that long before I can enjoy the "fruits of my labor" so to speak

I think I'll try Lalvin D-47 yeast next just to get away from bread yeast and hopefully improve alcohol percentage.

I understand "cherry picking" the ingredients may yield different results and/or cause some problems I'm admittedly not really prepared to handle...but generally that's the way I like to learn (aka "the hard way"). I figure if I get stuck I'll research my way out of it or ask for help on the boards . I'm taking copious notes, so of I do screw something up I'll be sure to figure it out and not repeat it.

The other nice thing for me anyway is that I'm doing small enough batches that it won't kill me if I mess something up.


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[butterpants]

Add Fermentaid K or DAP and yeast nutrient. Why beat around the bush with archaic methodology.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Home Brew mobile app

 

[fatbloke]

Ok, well that's a laudable attitude/approach to take, well done you....

So I'll throw you a bit of a "curved ball" then......

D47 is a good yeast......but........

its been found to produce higher levels of fusels when fermenting honey musts at over 70F/21C. So if you're in a warm(ish) location then that needs consideration/temp control.

There are better choices, that have track record at doing well with meads (and warmer temps/locations). K1-V1116 always comes to mind as it has both a high tolerance as well as a wide/higher temp range......

butterpants suggestion of using FermaidK/DAP will also ease your technique of aiming for a higher % ABV as well as making the ferment progress more smoothly/quicker (usually).

I think the gotmead NewBee guide is still down (it lives on the main gotmead site and Vicky has been working on that), but keep an eye open as its worth the read when it comes back and should resolve many new maker type questions you may have......

I initially went toward champagne yeast to try and get higher alcohol content, but as I researched it more it seems to come at the expense of length of time before the mead is drinkable. Since I'm doing 1 gallon batches I really don't want to wait that long before I can enjoy the "fruits of my labor" so to speak

I think I'll try Lalvin D-47 yeast next just to get away from bread yeast and hopefully improve alcohol percentage.

I understand "cherry picking" the ingredients may yield different results and/or cause some problems I'm admittedly not really prepared to handle...but generally that's the way I like to learn (aka "the hard way"). I figure if I get stuck I'll research my way out of it or ask for help on the boards . I'm taking copious notes, so of I do screw something up I'll be sure to figure it out and not repeat it.

The other nice thing for me anyway is that I'm doing small enough batches that it won't kill me if I mess something up.


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[fuelish]

Patience.
The key to overcoming the patience issue isn't to rush a batch. Its to distract yourself by starting more ;D

Amen to that

 

[Damgaard]

Ok, well that's a laudable attitude/approach to take, well done you....



D47 is a good yeast......but........



its been found to produce higher levels of fusels when fermenting honey musts at over 70F/21C. So if you're in a warm(ish) location then that needs consideration/temp control.




I ferment in my pantry. The median temp is around 73-78 degrees F. What yeast do you think would be best for that temp range?

Alcohol content is great, but I would lean toward faster drinkability, honestly. I'll focus on longer aging and honing my skills as I progress.



American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[IJesusChrist]

As a general rule (not for all yeasts) 68-72 is good, with 68 being preferred.

Higher temps cause fermentation to go much quicker, however, while yeast grow quicker, they tend to get stressed, as they are eating everything near them, and then suddenly it's all gone! Then they start pooping out stuff you don't like - at least this is how I think of it in my head, heh.

One way to test if this were true is to have two meads, both on stir plates.
One is held at 80 (or even higher, if you don't care about a possible waste), and the other at 68. Both receive standard nutrient additions - start and every 1/3 mark of sugar.

I'm willing to bet both will turn out very similar but the 80 will finish sooner. While the same experiment minus the stir plates will have you cursing the 80 degrees for a year.

But I'm just a noob.

 

[noblesquirrel]

As a general rule (not for all yeasts) 68-72 is good, with 68 being preferred.

Higher temps cause fermentation to go much quicker, however, while yeast grow quicker, they tend to get stressed, as they are eating everything near them, and then suddenly it's all gone! Then they start pooping out stuff you don't like - at least this is how I think of it in my head, heh.

One way to test if this were true is to have two meads, both on stir plates.
One is held at 80 (or even higher, if you don't care about a possible waste), and the other at 68. Both receive standard nutrient additions - start and every 1/3 mark of sugar.

I'm willing to bet both will turn out very similar but the 80 will finish sooner. While the same experiment minus the stir plates will have you cursing the 80 degrees for a year.

But I'm just a noob.

I'm an advocate for 64F as a fermentation temp, using 71B. It's tried and true. I think there are basically 4 camps of yeast users, some use Champagne (red star or lalvin), some use 71B, some use K1-V1116 (though I've only seen that on here for the most part) and some use D47. I find 71B to have a balanced ester profile and it ferments vigorously. I've gotten 18% with no problems, super clean. Just my $.02.

 

[IJesusChrist]

thanks squirrel

 

[Damgaard]

Thanks for the great info guys, while I'd love to say "it all makes sense"...it doesn't...yet...

I live in FL and air condition close to 10 months of the year. Generally I set my thermostat at 74 but do t run it during the day, which takes it up to around 78 before the air switches on again in the late afternoon.

What yeast would be best for that temp range with the quickest "drinkability"?


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Thanks for the great info guys, while I'd love to say "it all makes sense"...it doesn't...yet...

I live in FL and air condition close to 10 months of the year. Generally I set my thermostat at 74 but do t run it during the day, which takes it up to around 78 before the air switches on again in the late afternoon.

What yeast would be best for that temp range with the quickest "drinkability"?


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

Search the forum for " BOMM "- You can get up to 12% abv and a drinkable product after 1 month, with no low-temp requirements.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Wyeast 3787
Wyeast 1388

Currently I'm trying an Irish Ale yeast with my braggot - it doesn't look like 1 month will be enough time though - quite disgusting at the moment. Very 'green'.

 

[Damgaard]

Search the forum for " BOMM "- You can get up to 12% abv and a drinkable product after 1 month, with no low-temp requirements.

I saw that one yesterday, I think I'll give it a shot for my next batch...thanks!


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[Damgaard]

I picked up a couple of yeasts today:

Lalvin K1-1116 & a Lalvin D47

Of the two, clearly the D47 is going to be the best as it is a product of Denmark

Went to get the ingredients to make the BOMM recipe but the yeast they called for (Wyeast 1388) only comes in a packet for a five gallon batch. I didn't know what to do so I just left it there...

When making a one gallon batch do yuk go ahead and use the whole package or split it up??


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[RegarRenill]

For dry yeast, Use the whole thing. It will just decrease the lag phase. With liquid yeasts, make a starter and pitch half (make at least a 1 L starter, i make a 2L), keep the other half in the fridge until your next batch and repeat. Those smack packs aren't cheap!

 

[IJesusChrist]

Yeah, you can always save liquid yeast... which is why the vials are nicer. The packs you have to transfer to a sealable, sterile container.

 

[Damgaard]

They told me at the brew shop that you couldn't save the rest of the package due to contamination...ahhh the joys of capitalism.

Guys, I also bought some Wyeast Nutrient. It calls for 1/2 teaspoon for five gallons. I'm brewing two one gallon batches currently. How much do I add?

I see tons of posts for five gallon batches using five teaspoons of nutrient...how much nutrient for a one gallon batch?


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[IJesusChrist]

That nutrient isn't labelled for mead. 1 tsp to each, divided up into 3 or 4 and spaced out over time will do great.

If it were me though, I would be lazy and add 1 tsp at the start, and if I get any sense of off-aromas or slow fermentation, I'd add another tsp.

 

[Damgaard]

That nutrient isn't labelled for mead. 1 tsp to each, divided up into 3 or 4 and spaced out over time will do great.

If it were me though, I would be lazy and add 1 tsp at the start, and if I get any sense of off-aromas or slow fermentation, I'd add another tsp.

Perfect. As I am also lazy I will add 1tsp with some warm spring water to each batch. Thanks for the fast response!


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[IJesusChrist]

My life right now is avoiding work and reading on mead.

 

[TheZymurgist]

This should help.

View attachment Mead_Maker_of_the_Year_Panel.pdf

 

[Damgaard]

This should help.

Broken link Zymugist


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[IJesusChrist]

worked for me

 

[Damgaard]

My life right now is avoiding work and reading on mead.

That's pretty much been mine since I started my first batch...which was a scant three weeks ago. At this rate I'll lose my job, get divorced, and live out of my car with my collection of bubbling carboys.


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[Damgaard]

worked for me

Evidently no bueno on ipad.


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[IJesusChrist]

That's pretty much been mine since I started my first batch...which was a scant three weeks ago. At this rate I'll lose my job, get divorced, and live out of my car with my collection of bubbling carboys.


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

Cool, we should share parking spaces.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Evidently no bueno on ipad.


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

Hmm, it's a PDF of notes from Mead Maker of the Year. I'll see if I can find where I got it from.

 

[Damgaard]

Hmm, it's a PDF of notes from Mead Maker of the Year. I'll see if I can find where I got it from.

I got it Zymurgist, I searched the file name and it came right up. I have it bookmarked now. Great info!


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[Damgaard]

Wow...I racked this batch today, airlock activity had gone to nil. SG is at 1.000, started at 1.110. By the calculator I use it says it is sitting at 14.4% ABV. Tastes like rocket fuel with a dash of honey.

I added yeast nutrient and energizer about a week ago and things got very active before dropping off virtually all at once.

After racking to a new carboy I gave the beast about 1/4 cup honey dissolved in 2oz warm water and added one Vanilla Bean, split lengthwise.

I'm thinking this batch is going to have to sit for a while to tame? It really tastes like **** right now...

Thoughts?


American by Birth
Viking by the grace of Odin

Seeking peace through mead.

 

[IJesusChrist]

yeah, will take a long time.
One possible (highly experimental) would be to degas using negative pressure (a vacuum).

Of course only do this if you understand that, and don't eve use it in a glass carboy.