Scoresheet Feedback Questions

[Gameface]

I participated in a local beer comp and I have a few questions about the feedback I got on my scoresheets.

I entered 8 beers into 10 different categories. I did really well and overall I'm very happy with my results and feel like the notes align with my impressions of the beers for the most part.

My first question. I have read here that using honey in a beer doesn't impart much if any honey flavor and that if you want honey flavor you're better off using honey malt or adding honey at some point other than the boil. I used honey in a British Golden Ale. I didn't really want honey flavor, I just wanted to use a fermentable that would not add much color and would ferment out almost completely to provide a light dry finish to the beer. One judge seemed overwhelmed by the honey flavor and aroma. I have three scoresheets and the scores are 35/30/28, but I can see that the 35 had been erased and the previous score was 40-something. I really liked the beer and I can't personally taste the honey, but it seems like it pretty much ruined it for one of the judges.

It was a simple recipe:
12lbs MO
24oz Orange Blossom Honey
2oz EKG FWH
2oz EKG @ 10min
1.5oz EKG WP

O.G. 1.041 F.G. 1.007 SRM 3.6

So I guess the popular wisdom that honey doesn't actually provide honey flavor or aroma isn't entirely true? At least not in such a simple beer?

Second question, I submitted a Scottish Export Ale. The judges took note of a smokey flavor and said that it is not appropriate to use smoked/peated malt in this beer. I DID NOT use any smoked malt. I used 1728 Scottish Ale yeast and fermented very cold, 53F for three days until raising the temp to 60F. I have found that fermenting that yeast cold produces a very nice, very subtle smoky flavor.

Scores 36/32/35/33

Should I email the judge and let them know that I didn't use smoked malt and that it's possible to get a smokey flavor from the yeast itself?

15lbs MO
1lb carastan 35L
8oz chocolate malt 450L
8oz Brown Malt 65L

0.75oz Magnum 60min
1oz EKG 10min

O.G. 1.046 F.G. 1.010 SRM 15

I also got dinged for astringency on a few different beers. Even on some that got good scores and won medals. Could the astringency have to do with my water chemistry and the amount of hops I used? Can using acidulated malt produce astringency?

I don't sparge hot, always less than 168F.
Maybe I'm oversparging and not correcting the pH of my sparge water?

Also, I think I'm "blind" to actual bitterness. I pick up on bitterness but I think I do it through second-hand ques. The judges said a few of my beers were more bitter than appropriate for the style, on English Bitter beers, but I thought they weren't bitter enough and the IBUs on beersmith were not outside the guidelines. In the past they have told me those beers were not bitter enough, even though I thought they were plenty bitter.

 

[mabrungard]

Actually, you may have used a smoked malt. Some maltster's brown malt can have smoky notes that can come through into the beer. I use Crisp Brown malt to that effect in my Scottish ales.

As you allude to, Scottish yeast can sometimes throw a smoky note into the beer. But it is a rare occurence. I'm not sure how that yeast does it, nor do I understand how to get it to produce it, but I have tasted a beer with no smoked malts that was fermented with the Scottish strain and it did have a notable smoke note...so it can happen. I argued long and hard while we in BJCP were formulating the latest style guidelines so that smoke was listed as a possible component in Scottish styles. There were too many contributors that didn't understand this phenomena, so it didn't make it.

If your tap water is fairly alkaline, the use of acid malt does not solve the sparging water alkalinity problem. That is a big reason why acid malt use is an unwise panacea for brewing. Using a liquid or solid acid to neutralize your water alkalinity is a much smarter way to solve both water problems (mash and sparge). By the way, oversparging is much more likely to pull in tannins and silicates that create astringency in beer. Temperature and pH have far less effect.

Don't bother emailing the judge. We taste dozens of beers in a contest and figuring out which one you are referring to is just not going to happen. In my opinion, look more closely at the judge's qualifications. Certified or higher judges are more likely to be reliable. Take the observations of less qualified judges or pro brewers with a grain of salt. Do sit down with your beer and taste it while reading the comments. Maybe you will be able to pick up those notes or flaws that they cite. It's a good way to help calibrate your palate and recognize your beer's faults.

 

[Gameface]

Actually, you may have used a smoked malt. Some maltster's brown malt can have smoky notes that can come through into the beer. I use Crisp Brown malt to that effect in my Scottish ales.

As you allude to, Scottish yeast can sometimes throw a smoky note into the beer. But it is a rare occurence. I'm not sure how that yeast does it, nor do I understand how to get it to produce it, but I have tasted a beer with no smoked malts that was fermented with the Scottish strain and it did have a notable smoke note...so it can happen. I argued long and hard while we in BJCP were formulating the latest style guidelines so that smoke was listed as a possible component in Scottish styles. There were too many contributors that didn't understand this phenomena, so it didn't make it.

If your tap water is fairly alkaline, the use of acid malt does not solve the sparging water alkalinity problem. That is a big reason why acid malt use is an unwise panacea for brewing. Using a liquid or solid acid to neutralize your water alkalinity is a much smarter way to solve both water problems (mash and sparge). By the way, oversparging is much more likely to pull in tannins and silicates that create astringency in beer. Temperature and pH have far less effect.

Don't bother emailing the judge. We taste dozens of beers in a contest and figuring out which one you are referring to is just not going to happen. In my opinion, look more closely at the judge's qualifications. Certified or higher judges are more likely to be reliable. Take the observations of less qualified judges or pro brewers with a grain of salt. Do sit down with your beer and taste it while reading the comments. Maybe you will be able to pick up those notes or flaws that they cite. It's a good way to help calibrate your palate and recognize your beer's faults.

Thank you very much for your response! I realize my post was long and it's very hard for someone to give me useful feedback based just on my post.

I hadn't considered the brown malt. The scottish ale, while somewhat dark and with some interesting flavors, is actually very clean and easy to pick out individual flavors. So maybe whatever amount of smokiness was in the Brown malt came through. It doesn't hit you over the head with a hammer, though. It's very light and pleasant. You've kind of got to be looking for it to taste it, imho.

I plan to start using RO water very soon. I'll have a lot more control over my water chemistry then.

I guess I'll start testing the gravity of my wort towards the end of the sparge and stop when it gets too low. I suppose I can just add water straight from my HLT to the BK to get my desired volume at that point?