Saving a bad beer?

[Dfinnegan]

Rookie mistake on my part... I kegged my last brew into a ball lock keg I just picked up on CL.
I wasn't aware that I only had pin lock connectors hanging around.
So I said to myself,"self... go get a ball lock connector tomorrow at the LHBS.
Well one day turned into 3 and. Is my beer is like apple cider-ish.
Any chance of saving this one? Should I tell myself I brewed a sour apple beer and make myself enjoy it? What do you think?

 

[Braufessor]

Are you thinking there was a correlation between the disconnects and your beer not tasting the way you wanted??? I don't understand that part.

*Couple thoughts -

1.) Tell me about your fermentation.... How long did you primary, secondary??, Temperature, yeast, temp of beer last few days after you kegged it. The reason I ask is this - is the taste "cider" or apple/kind of tart. It is possible that what you have is acetaldehyde - which can taste apple like. Sometimes if you don't let your yeast finish things up, or they drop out part way through, this taste ends up in your beer. Sometimes, just setting the keg at 70 degrees for a week or so can let the yeast still in the beer clean that taste up, and your beer ends up perfectly fine with a bit more time at 68-75 degrees..

2.) Did you do a good job of taking that keg apart and soaking all the parts in PBW or another cleaner before using it.... just making sure that your keg purchase was sanitary to begin with.

3.) One thing I have done to "save" beers ... generally lighter color type beers .... is to bottle them, and use a pipette to add about 1ml or so of Brett Claussenii to each bottle. The Brett will eat what is left in the beer for sugars and basically give you kind of a tart, crisp Saison type beer. Gotta be a little careful doing this as far as how much gravity is still left in the beer in regard to carbonation generated in bottle.

4.) Don't be afraid to dump a batch of beer if it is truly actually "ruined." I have never been one to go in for the whole "never dump a batch of beer - just choke it down." If I have a beer that I don't like, I will dump it and get another batch going.

 

[ajdelange]

"Apple ciderish" is rather vague. Three possibilities come to mind
1)You used cane sugar as a fermentable. That leads to a ciderish quality in the beer and there isn't much you can do about it except resolve not to use cane sugar in future brews
2)The beer is simply 'green'. Green beer contains more acetaldehyde than fully mature beer. if this is the case use of 'tincture of time' will fix things up. Any yeast in the keg will reabsorb the acetaldehyde.
3)You have an infection with an acetaldehyde producer such as Zymomonas. If this is the case the acetaldehyde level is likely to be much stronger than what one usually describes as apple like or cidery. I remember one case where the beer tastes positively aldehydic.

So hope it is No. 2 and be patient.

 

[Dfinnegan]

Thank you gentlemen for the quick responses .
I brewed a pale ale smash with all Idaho seven hops .
My fermentation took place in the mud room of my house which normally stays between 65 and 70 however, we had a heat wave where it hit 90 for 3 days in a row. The mudroom hit 78° one of two of those days . I'm really worried that the oxygen in the keg made it go bad... Being that I did not purge with CO2 for three solid days . It's under pressure right now and sitting in the fermentation fridge at 45° I guess we'll just see how it turns out as of now it taste like sour apples.

 

[passedpawn]

Dump it. In theory, healthy yeast will finish the job and get rid of the apple taste. In my experience, this doesn't happen. I think anything other than dumping is throwing good money (or time) after bad.

I've had this a couple of times (long time ago) and it was awful - I can still taste it. I kept waiting/hoping for it to get better. Great day when I put it on the lawn. Mine was caused by infection (I think).

I'm not sure what AJ's talking about above. Cane sugar is fine in beer, assuming it's not a majority of the fermentables.

 

[wishingiwasfishing]

Let it go and give it a try. While I'm not opposed to dumping a bad beer, which I've had to do. I would suggest keeping it a while, even if you detect off flavors. For me, I find value in identifying off flavors in beer...and keeping one of my own and giving it time to get worse is of value to me.


I'm a little confused by your initial post...did you try it and it's cidery, or are you concerned it may be???

 

[Dfinnegan]

I did try it right after kegng and it was not what it should be.
Pretty sure it too much oxegen over those 3 days.
So the question is, can oxegen contamination be reversed?

 

[kh54s10]

Oxidation would give a wet cardboard smell and taste. I don't think your problem has anything to do with the delay in getting co2 in there. It would be very similar to doing a secondary and oxidation is no necessarily an issue.

What I do see is that the beer is green and more detrimental is it got WAY to hot during fermentation. Even the normal temperature of that room is too warm. Look into getting some temperature control. You want to keep the temperature of the wort itself in the mid sixties during fermentation for most ale yeasts.

Sadly, I would say that this one is a dumper.

 

[ajdelange]

I'm not sure what AJ's talking about above. Cane sugar is fine in beer, assuming it's not a majority of the fermentables.

Cane sugar is famous (or rather infamous) for the cidery quality it lends to beer made with it as an appreciable part of the fermentables. Kits used to be sold with a can of extract which the brewer added to water with a couple of cups of white sugar (which actually today would more likely be beet sugar) prior to the boil. The resulting beers often had a cidery taste. The fix was to use DME instead of the cane/beet sugar.

 

[Dfinnegan]

The more I read about fermentation temps, the more I think your right. Maybe I'll just convince myself I brewed my first sour... sour's are all the rage these days.

 

[ajdelange]

If it's really sour rather than cider like then you should be thinking about lactobaciilus contamination rather than zymomonas or green beer taste. If that is present you should also have turbidity (of course unsettled yeast in new beer may also cause turbidity). Time will not fix a lactobacillus infection.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Heat and oxidation are not a good combo. You didn't make a sour beer in the three days you had it hot with o2. What probably happened is the yeast cells ruptured from the heat releasing the off flavors you taste. Unless your using a saison yeast which can function well at elevated temps. That was compounded further by oxidation of those byproducts. As much as it sucks to lose a batch I'd cut my losses and move on.

 

[ajdelange]

He's not describing flavors that suggest either cell lysis or oxidation.

 

[frettfreak]

Lots of great advice in here. Only a couple of thoughts here.

1. this is NOT from oxidation. You basically secondaried your beer. Not the issue.
2. Get some temp control ASAP OR, brew beers with yeast that function in that range. Saison / farmhouse, sours, etc.

3. Is it sour or cidery? those are completely different in flavor and are caused by different things.

Certain strains of brett can take care of certain off flavors, but at that point, you might as well pitch some lacto and pedio as well and let it sit for a few months!

Good luck!

 

[Dfinnegan]

"3. Is it sour or cidery? those are completely different in flavor and are caused by different things. "

It's kinda like both. Like a sour apple flavor.

I'm getting a beer fridge ASAP. I should have watched the weather forecast and used a saison yeast. I used Safale Us-05.

If I pitch some saison yeast at this point and let it sit will it turn out like a saison?

 

[passedpawn]

throwing good money after bad

 

[Dfinnegan]

"Patience is a virtue". So after a couple more weeks under pressure and in the fridge, this beer seems ok.
I mean it's still off a little, but it's now drinkable. I told my quests last weekend it's a mild sour and they seemed to like it.
It's all perception I suppose. Thanks for all your input.

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, tincture of time is a powerful remedy though it is, of course, what ultimately does us all in.