lmerg
Well-Known Member
Hi,
[This is a long post, and I apologize. If I ask about sanitation, it seems like I should describe my process.]
I'm hoping to crowd source possible sources of a light wild yeast infection in my last beer kit. A bit of background: we brewed a few batches last year until we infected 20g with very incompetently washed yeast. Our first batch this summer is now mildly infected. This is disheartening and frustrating. I suspect the causes are different and that this recent infection is due to poor bottle or yeast starter.
1. Cleaning. I soak all the equipment in Oxyclean after the brew day. Usually I eyeball the concentration. It usually get rinsed and put away within a few days. We just transitioned to diptubes and hoses, so I'll need to be more careful about how they get cleaned. We don't have a pump, so no circulation cleaning that way. Usually I try to submerge them for cleaning, but I just set up a hose nozzle attached to a sink to run clean water through the hoses.
Cold side cleaning: Carboys get soaked in oxyclean then upended to soak the top half in Oxyclean. They get rinsed with a bottle jet and inspected. Our autosiphon gets soaked, then wiped down with a cloth or kitchen sponge, rinsed and dried. Only two batches have run through our ball valves, so I haven't disassembled the Blichmann (used as boil kettle) to clean. I am assuming the heat sanitizes the valve.
2. Boil to Carboy: We were attaching a hose to the kettle before the boil to save our fingers. I sanatize the hose in a bucket of star san and leave the end in the bucket during the boil. Obviously the top half of the hose is dry and exposed to the air. We don't have a gravity stand so we do a lot of lifting and moving, which can bump the hose against something if we're not careful. I try to resanitize, either using a spray bottle of Star San or resubmerging it in the bucket. (I'm very worried that my hands are not very sanitary, but my brewsistant assures me hands wet with Star San are fine.) I may now wait until we are done whirlpooling to attach the hose.
The Carboy is filled with room temp water and 1 oz of Star San. About 15 minutes before we fill it, I empty the carboy and upend it in a filled, sanitized bucket to fully sanitize the opening and collar of the carboy. Also, upside down makes it harder for stuff to fall inside.
We now have a lid for our boil kettle, so it stays as covered as possible while we whirlpool. (We really suck at that too.) All brew day stuff happens outside. I prefer to do it on the back porch rather than in the oil-soaked garage.
Airlocks have been cleaned by soaking in Oxyclean, rinsing, and storing in a box. They spend most of the brew day soaking in a measured solution of Star San. I can't see how these are my problem, unless I let them become too low during fermentation.
3. Fermentation occurs in an unfinished basement bathroom using swamp coolers. I've learned to dump some Star San in the cooler to prevent growths or film on the surface. Either way, I'd hope the airlock was working. I've started periodically spraying down the top of the Carboy with a solution of Star San to 'knock down' the amount of bacteria growing near the beer. I doubt this has any practicable effect.
We cold crash in a refrigerator. It has started growing mold on wood used to create a platform for the carboys. This concerns me if the airlock, now being sucked in, doesn't provide enough protection.
4. Yeast starters are made in old growlers. I clean and sanitize the growler. Make the starter while keeping all utensils in the star san, including a SS funnel. The starter is stored downstairs (i.e. at fermentation temperature). We usually sanitize a plastic sandwich bag and put a rubber band lightly around it to seal the top. Here, Im trading oxygen for a bit less contamination from the basement. The starter for the recent IPA was kept upstairs, at slightly warmer than fermentation temps with more shaking. I have a cat upstairs, so maybe thats an issue; of course there are dogs downstairs so pick your furry contamination. I used aluminum foil to seal the top of that starter.
5. Bottling. I think this is the problem but we didn't have issues with previous batches.
The bottling spigot is difficult to clean. Today I ran water through it backwards via the sink and a hose clamp. But what is lurking inside? Anyway, I let that sit in star san for a few minutes (at least three by the podcast on Sanitation) before I move the valve back and forth and install it. Here I have my hands inside the bucket, so this comes before I fill it with star san.
I fill the 7g bottling bucket with a measured amount of star san -- .5 oz for 2.5 gallons. I use a clean wash cloth or sponge to scrub the sides and top. I've purchased a Lowes bucket lid to keep debris out while bottling and I sanitize that too. The autosiphon is soaked in star san, and I make sure that all four sides (two inside, two outside) make contact with the sanitizer. I pump the star san through the hose as well to ensure I don't leave air pockets while it soaks.
We have a bottling extension, which includes a spring and a pressure switch thing. I have to disassemble this to ensure that it is clean.
Because were using gravity to transfer volumes, there is a bit of movement. Since the bottling bucket spigot is attached during the transfer, there is a chance for contamination when we move the bucket. Every time the autosiphon leaves the star san, Im petrified that its picking up contaminants from the room. (Ive developed this fear after 25 gallons of infected beer. I think thats a healthy thing.)
Bottles have been soaked or rinsed beforehand. They are run through the dishwasher using a high temp wash and a sanitary rinse cycle. They stay upside down and inside until we are ready to bottle. Caps are inspected for rust and left under an inch of star san. Bottling takes less than 1.5 hours. I've decided to turn off the A/C and ceiling fans per the advice of the White & Zainasheff Yeast book, which I did prior to bottling my mildly infected ale.
I wipe the counter with Bleach wipes and try to clean the surfaces around me. A large problem is that we have limited power over the spaces in which we work. Our kitchen floor, for example, is covered in grossness and dog hair. Our fermentation room has dust, exposed wall studs, some insulation. Although one member of my family has/had debilitating asthma, we pretend that the HEPA filter magically removes all dust in the house. In short, its pretty much the opposite of an ideal clean bottling or fermentation environment.
I am conscious that people have made beer in worse conditions, with less ability to control contaminants. So I ask you, what am I missing?
Thanks in advance (even for just reading this far)!
- Luke
[This is a long post, and I apologize. If I ask about sanitation, it seems like I should describe my process.]
I'm hoping to crowd source possible sources of a light wild yeast infection in my last beer kit. A bit of background: we brewed a few batches last year until we infected 20g with very incompetently washed yeast. Our first batch this summer is now mildly infected. This is disheartening and frustrating. I suspect the causes are different and that this recent infection is due to poor bottle or yeast starter.
1. Cleaning. I soak all the equipment in Oxyclean after the brew day. Usually I eyeball the concentration. It usually get rinsed and put away within a few days. We just transitioned to diptubes and hoses, so I'll need to be more careful about how they get cleaned. We don't have a pump, so no circulation cleaning that way. Usually I try to submerge them for cleaning, but I just set up a hose nozzle attached to a sink to run clean water through the hoses.
Cold side cleaning: Carboys get soaked in oxyclean then upended to soak the top half in Oxyclean. They get rinsed with a bottle jet and inspected. Our autosiphon gets soaked, then wiped down with a cloth or kitchen sponge, rinsed and dried. Only two batches have run through our ball valves, so I haven't disassembled the Blichmann (used as boil kettle) to clean. I am assuming the heat sanitizes the valve.
2. Boil to Carboy: We were attaching a hose to the kettle before the boil to save our fingers. I sanatize the hose in a bucket of star san and leave the end in the bucket during the boil. Obviously the top half of the hose is dry and exposed to the air. We don't have a gravity stand so we do a lot of lifting and moving, which can bump the hose against something if we're not careful. I try to resanitize, either using a spray bottle of Star San or resubmerging it in the bucket. (I'm very worried that my hands are not very sanitary, but my brewsistant assures me hands wet with Star San are fine.) I may now wait until we are done whirlpooling to attach the hose.
The Carboy is filled with room temp water and 1 oz of Star San. About 15 minutes before we fill it, I empty the carboy and upend it in a filled, sanitized bucket to fully sanitize the opening and collar of the carboy. Also, upside down makes it harder for stuff to fall inside.
We now have a lid for our boil kettle, so it stays as covered as possible while we whirlpool. (We really suck at that too.) All brew day stuff happens outside. I prefer to do it on the back porch rather than in the oil-soaked garage.
Airlocks have been cleaned by soaking in Oxyclean, rinsing, and storing in a box. They spend most of the brew day soaking in a measured solution of Star San. I can't see how these are my problem, unless I let them become too low during fermentation.
3. Fermentation occurs in an unfinished basement bathroom using swamp coolers. I've learned to dump some Star San in the cooler to prevent growths or film on the surface. Either way, I'd hope the airlock was working. I've started periodically spraying down the top of the Carboy with a solution of Star San to 'knock down' the amount of bacteria growing near the beer. I doubt this has any practicable effect.
We cold crash in a refrigerator. It has started growing mold on wood used to create a platform for the carboys. This concerns me if the airlock, now being sucked in, doesn't provide enough protection.
4. Yeast starters are made in old growlers. I clean and sanitize the growler. Make the starter while keeping all utensils in the star san, including a SS funnel. The starter is stored downstairs (i.e. at fermentation temperature). We usually sanitize a plastic sandwich bag and put a rubber band lightly around it to seal the top. Here, Im trading oxygen for a bit less contamination from the basement. The starter for the recent IPA was kept upstairs, at slightly warmer than fermentation temps with more shaking. I have a cat upstairs, so maybe thats an issue; of course there are dogs downstairs so pick your furry contamination. I used aluminum foil to seal the top of that starter.
5. Bottling. I think this is the problem but we didn't have issues with previous batches.
The bottling spigot is difficult to clean. Today I ran water through it backwards via the sink and a hose clamp. But what is lurking inside? Anyway, I let that sit in star san for a few minutes (at least three by the podcast on Sanitation) before I move the valve back and forth and install it. Here I have my hands inside the bucket, so this comes before I fill it with star san.
I fill the 7g bottling bucket with a measured amount of star san -- .5 oz for 2.5 gallons. I use a clean wash cloth or sponge to scrub the sides and top. I've purchased a Lowes bucket lid to keep debris out while bottling and I sanitize that too. The autosiphon is soaked in star san, and I make sure that all four sides (two inside, two outside) make contact with the sanitizer. I pump the star san through the hose as well to ensure I don't leave air pockets while it soaks.
We have a bottling extension, which includes a spring and a pressure switch thing. I have to disassemble this to ensure that it is clean.
Because were using gravity to transfer volumes, there is a bit of movement. Since the bottling bucket spigot is attached during the transfer, there is a chance for contamination when we move the bucket. Every time the autosiphon leaves the star san, Im petrified that its picking up contaminants from the room. (Ive developed this fear after 25 gallons of infected beer. I think thats a healthy thing.)
Bottles have been soaked or rinsed beforehand. They are run through the dishwasher using a high temp wash and a sanitary rinse cycle. They stay upside down and inside until we are ready to bottle. Caps are inspected for rust and left under an inch of star san. Bottling takes less than 1.5 hours. I've decided to turn off the A/C and ceiling fans per the advice of the White & Zainasheff Yeast book, which I did prior to bottling my mildly infected ale.
I wipe the counter with Bleach wipes and try to clean the surfaces around me. A large problem is that we have limited power over the spaces in which we work. Our kitchen floor, for example, is covered in grossness and dog hair. Our fermentation room has dust, exposed wall studs, some insulation. Although one member of my family has/had debilitating asthma, we pretend that the HEPA filter magically removes all dust in the house. In short, its pretty much the opposite of an ideal clean bottling or fermentation environment.
I am conscious that people have made beer in worse conditions, with less ability to control contaminants. So I ask you, what am I missing?
Thanks in advance (even for just reading this far)!
- Luke
