San Diego vs Portland

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Better beer city: San Diego or Portland?

  • San Diego

  • Portland


Results are only viewable after voting.
how about all the people that live in San Diego and Portland send me samples of the best the perspective cities have to offer and I will evaluate them and report back.

This sounds fair don't you think? ;)

They will also need to send a backup sample to my attention in case the primary sample is lost, damaged, or adulterated. Better safe than sorry I always say! :mug:
 
I don't know. I mean if you guys want to use indicators like number of breweries, depth of beer culture or quality of beer, well I guess that's alright... but I'd prefer to see some hard data on prevalence of liver disease and gluten allergies per capita if I'm really going to be convinced either way. ;)
 
I don't feel like anyone's fighting, and I think this is a great discussion. We just need to make sure we are comparing apples to apples. For example the SDBG site was mentioned. Of the 25 or so breweries on there only 7 are actually in San Diego. The short list of brewers I listed are actually in the city limits of Portland. Go to the Oregon Brewers Guild site and there are 21 breweries listed in Portland (that is Portland addresses vs San Diego addresses). Both counts by the way only count unique brewery names...so those with multiple locations only get 1 count.

But are we just going off numbers? Quality of the beer produced? Culture? etc?

This conversation is quite easy to keep civil and a great way to learn about the scene in other cities.
 
I don't know. I mean if you guys want to use indicators like number of breweries, depth of beer culture or quality of beer, well I guess that's alright... but I'd prefer to see some hard data on prevalence of liver disease and gluten allergies per capita if I'm really going to be convinced either way. ;)

I think the BMC capitals have the winners in that scenario.
 
This conversation is...a great way to learn about the scene in other cities.

Agreed on that, but why do these threads always need to be titled "vs." in these cases. Sure, you could argue that is indiciating a comparison between the two, but the threads alway degrade into, "Oh yeah!!! Well, here's why your town sucks!!" :D

As far as beer goes, I would be happy to live in Portland or San Diego and bask in the wealth of good beer, but I'm also pretty danged excited about the options in my area.
 
"I'd love to see a definitive list of what is considered a SD brewery, then we can noodle over the names to see what's legitimately a recognizable brewery."

This is why this **** is stupid. You have no clue what you're even fighting over. If you weren't so blatantly ignorant of the breweries outside of your city, you might be able to convince me of something... If you didn't even make it to the San Diego Brewer's Guild site, you really didn't look.

I did visit the SD Brewer's Guild site before I posted. And I stand by my assertion that there are far less nationally recognizable names in SD than in PDX.
 
I think every beer geek in the country knows Stone, Port Brewing/Lost Abbey, Gordon Biersch (we are counting sattelite restaurant breweries, right?), Green Flash, Ballast Point and AleSmith, at a minimum.

So this is verses Deschutes, Full Sail and Rogue (none of which are really from Portland) and Widmer and Bridgeport and maybe Hopworks.

Sounds about even to me, but if you don't grasp at credit for breweries that are really from somewhere else, San Diego is ahead.
 
I think every beer geek in the country knows Stone, Port Brewing/Lost Abbey, Gordon Biersch (we are counting sattelite restaurant breweries, right?), Green Flash, Ballast Point and AleSmith, at a minimum.
I was not counting national chains such as GB or Rockbottom.

but if you don't grasp at credit for breweries that are really from somewhere else, San Diego is ahead.

And if you're counting satellite restaurant breweries you can not make the above statement...Deschutes, Rogue, Full Sail, Pyramid etc all have production facilities in Portland. If you count GB, you have to count them.


San Diego is ahead.
If we're going solely off number of breweries IN A CITY (that is with a San Diego or Portland address) I don't see how you can say that. 21 vs 7 isn't even close.
 
I think every beer geek in the country knows Stone, Port Brewing/Lost Abbey, Gordon Biersch (we are counting sattelite restaurant breweries, right?), Green Flash, Ballast Point and AleSmith, at a minimum.

So this is verses Deschutes, Full Sail and Rogue (none of which are really from Portland) and Widmer and Bridgeport and maybe Hopworks AND PYRAMID/MACTARNAHAN'S.

Sounds about even to me, but if you don't grasp at credit for breweries that are really from somewhere else, San Diego is ahead.

Fixed that for you.

Actually, Gordon Biersch definitely shouldn't count, it's a brewpub chain from San Jose - just as I wouldn't count the BJ's nor Rock Bottom chains, both of which we also have in PDX. I already responded to the Deschutes/Rogue question (they bottle specific beers that are only brewed at their PDX locations for nationwide distribution, so they legitimately count).

I'm a bit of a beer geek and have never heard of Ballast Point nor Green Flash, and I've traveled all over the USA to drink beer and snoop around in bottle shops. The July/August 2009 Zymurgy had the reader-voted poll for best beer in America, and it included some other interesting tidbits: 2 of the top 10 breweries in America were Rogue (#7) and Deschutes (#10). Stone was #2, but there were no other SD-area breweries in the list (top 25). In the "Spirit of Homebrew" list, Hair of the Dog got #2, and Alesmith and Port/Lost Abbey were #3 & #5, respectively. So there's that, seems like a fairly even ranking overall.

There's simply no way that SD has any sort of claim to "Beervana". Portland's Widmer Brothers invented a style now recognized in the BJCP: American Wheat. The McMenamin brothers pioneered the brewpub concept, and were the first to legally produce a fruit beer (Ruby Ale). Our own local Beer God, Fred Eckhardt, created the classification of beer styles that later was developed into the BJCP. Many of the most positive developments in brewing since 1978 started here in PDX, and we're continuing the evolution with the move to recognize a distinct style of "Dark IPA" (working name: "Cascadian Pale Ale"), using darker malts and the "C" hops.
 
Do tell me where and what I should get, I'd like to try, don't get me wrong! I don't recall seeing any of their stuff at Saraveza, but I can definitely head out to John's Marketplace or Belmont Station to pick some up, with some good recommendations.

I'm all for good beer, so please educate!
 
I agree that this discussion/argument is pretty pointless. I mean, both cities have great beer and culture.
+1 to not knowing green flash or ballast point. I've had both while visiting portland.
last point....
the whole "most SD breweries aren't really in SD" argument doesn't really make sense. Anyone who is at all familiar with how socal is organized knows that we have many many cities within a very short distance. I can literally drive less than 10 minutes in any direction and be technically in a different city. well, except west or I'd be in the ocean. Anybody who lives in la mesa, el cajon, la jolla, escondido, etc will say they live in SD if asked by anyone outside of SD. just like anyone who is from torrance, carson, santa monica, etc, will say they live in LA. Maybe the PDX area is like that too, but I don't know it well enough to say.
 
Any bottle shop here should have some Green Flash. I know for sure John's and Belmont do. My favs are the Hop Head Red, West Coast IPA, Imperial, and Barleywine.

And it sounds to me like arturo is trying to start something that isn't there. ;)
 
The McMenamin brothers pioneered the brewpub concept.

Not to get nit picky but that was Bert Grant that did that.

From McMenamins:

Soon after the Barley Mill Pub's opening, Oregon law changed to allow breweries to sell beer on the same property as it was brewed—thus was born the brewpub concept. The now-famous microbrew revolution took over the Pacific Northwest. In fact, the first brewpub to start brewing its own beer in Oregon was McMenamins Hillsdale Brewery & Public House in southwest Portland in 1985.

Bert's brewpub opened in 1982. He also revitalized the IPA category and RIS. Check out this good read from the real Michael Jackson:
http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-001575.html
 
This is a tough argument to have because there are different things you can measure. The problem with trying to rate Portland and Oregon is that we drink most of the beer that gets produced here. If you don't live here or travel here, you haven't experienced it and won't be able to give it a fair shake. Oregon has the highest draft beer % and the highest craft % in consumption in the country, and the bulk of beer produced in Oregon gets drank in Oregon. Like was said earlier, there might not be the nationally sought after cache brands like Russian River and DogFish Head, but good beer is part of every day life. Every crappy dive has multiple good local beers. The chain restaurants have 10 oregon beers on tap. The crappy quickymart has 20 different local six packs. The most popular micros around town aren't available outside of the city let alone the state. You can't get Amnesia, Upright, Laurelwood, Roots,Lompoc, Lucky Lab, or Double Mountain if you aren't around here. McMenamins doesn't sell anything outside of their establishments, they just have dozens and dozens of pubs, brewpubs, event halls, movie theater pubs, and converted schools you can hang out it in. It's more of a "vibe" thing than can be quantified by comparing breweries.

Also, I think the SD breweries have done a better job of creating "buzz beers" and created more of a national desire for their bottled beers. The Oregon breweries have largely kept their "buzz beer" kind of beers in the local draft beer scene, while companies like BridgePort and Widmer have gone national with affordable six-packs, not trying (until recently) to compete nationally with Russian River, Dogfish Head, etc.
 
the whole "most SD breweries aren't really in SD" argument doesn't really make sense. Anyone who is at all familiar with how socal is organized knows that we have many many cities within a very short distance. I can literally drive less than 10 minutes in any direction and be technically in a different city. well, except west or I'd be in the ocean. Anybody who lives in la mesa, el cajon, la jolla, escondido, etc will say they live in SD if asked by anyone outside of SD. just like anyone who is from torrance, carson, santa monica, etc, will say they live in LA. Maybe the PDX area is like that too, but I don't know it well enough to say.

To your point we can do the same in Portland. I can drive 10 minutes and be in Milwaukie, Clackamas, Oregon City, Lake Oswego, Tualitin, Hilsboro, Beaverton, Tigard, Wilsonville, West Linn, etc etc. And to take it a step further, I can be in the following WA towns, Vancouver, Camas, Battle Ground.

But that's what I'm saying. All the shops mentioned are actually in Portland, not a surrounding town that claims to be Portland (or San Diego).
 
This is a tough argument to have because there are different things you can measure. The problem with trying to rate Portland and Oregon is that we drink most of the beer that gets produced here. If you don't live here or travel here, you haven't experienced it and won't be able to give it a fair shake. Oregon has the highest draft beer % and the highest craft % in consumption in the country, and the bulk of beer produced in Oregon gets drank in Oregon. Like was said earlier, there might not be the nationally sought after cache brands like Russian River and DogFish Head, but good beer is part of every day life. Every crappy dive has multiple good local beers. The chain restaurants have 10 oregon beers on tap. The crappy quickymart has 20 different local six packs. The most popular micros around town aren't available outside of the city let alone the state. You can't get Amnesia, Upright, Laurelwood, Roots, or Double Mountain if you aren't around here. McMenamins doesn't sell commercially, they just have dozens and dozens of pubs, brewpubs, event halls, and converted schools you can hang out it in. It's more of a "vibe" thing than can be quantified by comparing breweries.

Also, I think the SD breweries have done a better job of creating "buzz beers" and created more of a national desire for their bottled beers. The Oregon breweries have largely kept their "buzz beer" kind of beers in the local draft beer scene, while companies like BridgePort and Widmer have gone national with affordable six-packs, not trying (until recently) to compete nationally with Russian River, Dogfish Head, etc.

that is a very good point, for example jubelale in a bottle down here tastes great in it's own right, but tastes like piss compared to on cask at the deschutes pub. Same is true about a 2 month old bottle of pliny compared to having it off the tap in Santa Rosa.
 
I'm a bit of a beer geek and have never heard of Ballast Point nor Green Flash, and I've traveled all over the USA to drink beer and snoop around in bottle shops.


There's simply no way that SD has any sort of claim to "Beervana".

and we're continuing the evolution with the move to recognize a distinct style of "Dark IPA" (working name: "Cascadian Pale Ale"), using darker malts and the "C" hops.

1. If you've never heard of Green Flash or Ballast Point, you're really not paying attention. They've been out there for a good while and they get a ton of press.

2. Your opinion is just that and you're pretty silly for thinking that when you haven't even had two of the best breweries in San Diego.

3. Look up "San Diego Pale Ale" and we can talk about developing styles. Plus, we've had black/dark IPAs down here for plenty of years. Good for you guys for wanting to claim it. It is very much known that craft beer is deeply embedded in the Portland culture, and San Diego is finding its way still. So what?

You're sooooo proud of your town, but you're bordering on arrogant and it is offputting. I'm going to go put a bottle of Black Butte XX in the fridge next to my bottle of Alesmith Grand Cru and when I'm drinking it tonight, I won't remember how pointless and silly it is to argue such things. Thank God I'm not too much of a jackass to appreciate every town for its merits and enjoy each for their strengths and weaknesses.
 
But that's what I'm saying. All the shops mentioned are actually in Portland, not a surrounding town that claims to be Portland (or San Diego).

There are, for lack of a better term, towns that comprise San Diego city. The majority of the populated areas in SD county will put 'San Diego, CA 9xxxx' on their address. Areas have names, but they are not independent cities. There are some further north in the county, such as Escondido, that are independent cities, which that happens to be where Stone is located.
 
Look out folks. Now they've brought geography into the debate!

This is turning into a real donnybrook...

I'm just clarifying for the non-San Diegans. I'm relatively neutral in this debate, with my only sway towards San Diego being that I live here and have never been to Portland...
 
Until my main points are refuted, there is nothing more to say, this conversation is indeed totally pointless.

Many here are doing a great job of nitpicking around the edges, and missing the content. That's cool, if that's your modus operandi, but it isn't intelligent conversation. I particularly enjoyed the charge of being "arrogant and offputting". That's rich.

Here's a little something to take you into the new year:
http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

Movin' on.
 
To your point we can do the same in Portland. I can drive 10 minutes and be in Milwaukie, Clackamas, Oregon City, Lake Oswego, Tualitin, Hilsboro, Beaverton, Tigard, Wilsonville, West Linn, etc etc. And to take it a step further, I can be in the following WA towns, Vancouver, Camas, Battle Ground.

But that's what I'm saying. All the shops mentioned are actually in Portland, not a surrounding town that claims to be Portland (or San Diego).

Bah, Camas, why would you ever want to go to Camas?!?!? Do they still have the papermill...or was that in Washougal?!?!?
 
I was not counting national chains such as GB or Rockbottom.



And if you're counting satellite restaurant breweries you can not make the above statement...Deschutes, Rogue, Full Sail, Pyramid etc all have production facilities in Portland. If you count GB, you have to count them.



If we're going solely off number of breweries IN A CITY (that is with a San Diego or Portland address) I don't see how you can say that. 21 vs 7 isn't even close.

21 where nobody really cares about 18 of them...
 
drinking hop head red from green flash right now so i have to say san diego. although i dont know why you couldnt include a colorodo city in this debate
 
got to represent the PNW. It might rain non-stop up here but that just gives us more time indoors to fine tune our hobbie.
 
Can we just get to the drunken brawl scene or what?! It's NYE, kids. Belly up, have a brew.


(said the San Diegan.)

No!! Not San Diego!! Carlsbad!! :p

As soon as I saw this thread I thought, "Uh oh, here we go again..."

I see it like this: Both towns have great beer communities.
I think Portland's is a little more established and SD is trying to make it's mark and doing a damn good job at it!

To me the argument is kind of stupid and that's why I dropped out of the last one.

In all seriousness, it's kind of the same as arguing local sport's teams.
You really don't have anything to do with it, so why are you getting all puffed up about it?

But... the Chargers are going to win the Super Bowl this year so.....
 
I see it like this: Both towns have great beer communities.
I think Portland's is a little more established and SD is trying to make it's mark and doing a damn good job at it!

Thank you. This is the heart of what I want to convey, but the ****ing Portland people (person) are way too stubborn and ignorant to hear anything else. "I've never heard of it" is a horrible benchmark for anything.

We both have AMAZING beer, some of the best in the world. This isn't a dick-out contest. This is beer. FUN, WONDERFUL BEER. There are no sides, there are no winners and losers, save for the ****ty breweries. We all get good beer and we all win, even if captain ********* wants to keep pretending people didn't bring up several GREAT SD breweries. OH NO, they're not in his bottle shop so they're terrible! Tell that to Bell's, Founders, New Glarus, New Holland, etc. You don't know JACK, buddy. Good luck with your boring, narrow outlook on life.

Straight ignorance.
 

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