Samiclaus Clone - Stuck at 1.050

[mscrowley]

I decided to go for a big beer this time, and brew one of my faves. I bought AHS' Samiclaus (Dopplebock) Clone. My OG was right on target, 1.140. I got a good double batch of yeast starter going (WLP838), pitched it, and let it sit for a few weeks. The instructions were a little confusing on when to lager, when to ferment at 60-70 degrees, etc, and what I did was a bit of a long story. Suffice it to say, it fermented at 60-70 degrees for a while, it lagered at 40-50 degrees for a while (still bubbling away).

After 5 weeks, it was down to 1.072. After 8 weeks, it was at 1.050, and had stalled. It was about three weeks later before I could add the champagne yeast. I hydrated the first batch of champagne yeast with water, and pitched it. But I forgot to check temp, and two days later I realized I had pitched the champagne yeast at 50 degrees. Oops. =[

Ok, so I couldn't get ahold of more champagne yeast locally, so I had to wait for AHS to send me another few packets. This time I started the yeast in a cup of the beer, diluted with a cup of water. I boiled this mix for a few before cooling back down to room temp and adding the yeast, then let that sit for a couple of hours before adding it to the brew.

Nothing. Happened. Not a single bubble.

Now I have a third try at nudging this brew along. I've taken a cup of beer, a cup of water, cooked it together, cooled it back down to room temp, and added two packs of dry champagne yeast. I'm going to let it sit overnight, and then pitch it. The brew is about 65-70 degrees right now. Which brings me to my question - does this seem like the right approach? The beer tastes great. Flat, of course, but it's right along where I would expect it to be. I was planning to experiment with oak on a couple of gallons of the brew, and I'm sure it's not too late to save, I just don't know exactly what to do. Any thoughts?

 

[Calder]

Why would you expect Champagne yeast to do anything?

Your primary yeast consumed all the simple sugars. Champagne yeast does not work on complex sugars.

You should have kept all the simple sugars out of the boil, let the primary yeast go at he complex sugars and then add the champagne yeast and simple sugars later.

You can try adding a high gravity ale yeast, but since you have added the wine yeast, it might not work: Wine yeast will kill ale yeast.

 

[mscrowley]

I used the champagne yeast for three reasons -

First, the Samiclaus recipe calls for it at the end just before bottling, although it's not clear exactly when.

Second, the Champagne yeast has a high enough ABV tolerance that I thought it would survive the process.

Third, the guys at AHS recommended it.

What do you mean by "keeping the simple sugars out of the boil"? I have not added the priming sugar, if that's what you meant. I simply boiled some of the existing beer with some water to help the champagne yeast attenuate faster, similar to starting yeast with DME. Although now that I think about it, the purpose of boiling the DME is homgenization, and I would expect the cup of beer to already be homogenized, so maybe I messed up by boiling the beer before starting the yeast?

 

[ChillWill]

Simple sugar as in shorter chain sugar from the mash.

I don't know about the kit, but generally the champagne yeast is used for bottle conditioning, as it can handle the higher alcohol and process the simple priming sugar better than the stressed ale yeast.

Also, you want to rehydrate dry yeast in water or a 50:50 water:wort mix (regular strength wort, like 1.040), for 30mins, then slowly add your beer to get it used to the alcohol.

 

[jtejedor]

How big was your starter? According to mrmalty that beer would need 2 vials going into an 11 liter starter. I have wanted to make this beer but would never even attempt it unless I had a yeast cake to pitch on. At this point that might be your best bet since your already at 12% alcohol. Also dropping the temperature on the yeast probably contributed to them stalling out.

 

[mscrowley]

Ah, so the champagne yeast is really only for the pruning sugar, and it likely won't do much with the wort. Sounds like I do need to get a high gravity Belgian or ale yeast to finish it out, then use the champagne yeast just before bottling. But I will have to siphon back over to a clean carboy so the champ yeast doesnt kill the beer yeast.

Sigh. As much as I like the folks at AHS, their instructions are a bit lacking on some of this stuff.

My starter was big, biggest I've ever done, but I'm sure it wasn't 11 liters big. That's half the size of my fermenter! I think I made 8 cups of starter.

Thanks everybody.

 

[ChillWill]

Can you crash cool? I'd do that to get as much champers yeast out of suspension, although you'll never really get rid of all of it (and I don't know anything on the subject of wine/champagne yeast fighting ale yeast thing).

If you can pitch more ale yeast, I'd try WLP099, heard good things about that for finishing high gravity beer. Make sure you make a decent starter though!

Maybe you could make a starter of WLP099 and add small abouts (like 500ml, 1000ml, 2000ml over 24 hours), then add 1g a day? Then it wouldn't get as stressed from all that alcohol, all at once. Also, you won't require need as much growth, which you wouldn't get much of unless you add more oxygen. I dunno, just throwing out ideas.