Sam Adams Noble Pils clone

[wildwest450]

Can someone post it?

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[mrduna01]

can someone post it?

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+1

 

[azscoob]

I can post the recipe tonight if nobody has posted it yet.

 

[wildwest450]

Cool, I need to brew this again.

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[azscoob]

Here is the recipe copied from Zymurgy for 5 US gallons:

7.2 lb 2-row
2.4 lb pils

2 oz hallertau 4.6%aa (60 min)
.5 oz saaz 4%aa (5 min)
.25 oz tettnang 4%aa (5 min)
.8 oz tettnang (dryhop)
.6 oz saaz (dryhop)
.4 oz spalt (dryhop)
.2 oz hersbrucker (dryhop)

lager yeast (Wyeast 2206)

OG 1.049
FG 1.012
IBU 24
SRM 5
Eff 70%

Mash in at 122 degrees for 10 min, raise to 154 degrees for 15 min, then raise to mash off of 170 degrees.

60 min boil
Ferment at 50 degrees until complete
Rack and lager at 32 degrees for 4 weeks

 

[wildwest450]

Thanks, we weren't even in the ballpark.

A definite re-brew is in order. That mash schedule looks a tad suspect (so does the ibu's), but I know what I need to do with it.

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[winvarin]

Does dry hopping a lager differ from dry hopping an ale? I would think you need to hop longer because of the cooler temps. But when? After racking to secondary? And how long?

 

[azscoob]

I dryhop lagers just like I do ales, I Dryhop in my keg with hop bags for a week, remove them and finish out the lagering.

 

[BenS]

Mash in at 122 degrees for 10 min, raise to 154 degrees for 15 min, then raise to mash off of 170 degrees.

Are those mash times correct?? Seems really short!

 

[azscoob]

Are those mash times correct?? Seems really short!

It is exactly as printed from the magazine, I thought it was odd myself, it may be that if you do a conversion test, it is fully converted at that point. Odd schedule though. Personally I would just finish out a 60 minute mash at 154°

 

[jkarp]

The way I read it was 15 @ 154 and then an hour ramp to 170. With these malts the vast majority of the conversion would happen in 15 minutes and the ramp would definitely convert anything left.

 

[BenS]

The way I read it was 15 @ 154 and then an hour ramp to 170.

I wonder if that's how they achieve the mouth feel without doing a decoction mash?

 

[wildwest450]

This looks like a good recipe to bust out the 131-145-158 step mash that Strong talks about, he says it's a good alternative to a decoction.


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[BenS]

I'm very interested in making this beer as well and was thinking of just doing a decoction from 122-154-170. Have you ever done the Gordon Strong step mash wildwest?

 

[wildwest450]

I'm very interested in making this beer as well and was thinking of just doing a decoction from 122-154-170. Have you ever done the Gordon Strong step mash wildwest?

Yup, I like it. I get better than normal attenuation from it, with decent body. My system recirculates, so it's perfect for step mashes.

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[BenS]

To be honest, I don't have a recirculating or direct fire mash so I've never done a step mash. I have done many many decoction mashes though. How does the final product from step mash compare to decoction or infusion mashing?

 

[wildwest450]

I haven't done a side to side comparison but i'd be willing to bet their similar. You can easily do step mashes with infusions in a cooler. If you're comfortable decocting and have the time, why not? I just don't care to take the time on one unless it's a big German malt bomb.

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[BenS]

I think I'll brew this using an infusion mash over the 4th of July weekend. Would have loved to have this recipe 2 months ago so I could be drinking it this weekend instead of brewing it.

 

[wildwest450]

Depending on where you live it will be sweltering hot come mid August, perfect time for a Pilsner.


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[BenS]

sweltering hot come mid August

Too late, here in Lubbock TX, I can't remember the last day that was under 100F.

 

[azscoob]

Too late, here in Lubbock TX, I can't remember the last day that was under 100F.

Yeah, we have been sweltering for a while here too.

 

[jgourd]

And, wow, were our guessed recipes off. I'm shocked it's 75% pale 2-row...

Actually, I'm kind of not. The Pilsner malt has a very unique flavor and aroma, and both times in my brew it was very noticeable. This is something I never particularly noticed in the SA version, but it's a Pilsner so I never thought to "break the rule."

 

[jgourd]

I wonder if we all shouldn't decide on a weekend to brew this and then exchange some of our Noble Pils clones. I wouldn't mind sending a 6-pack or two to others also brewing if I get some in return. It would be interesting maybe.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

If I brew it, I am definitely not using 2 row. I will try the hop schedule though...My last attempt wasn't even close.

Edit--Anyone run the color and come close to 5? I get about SRM of around 3.44 (even with the 2 row) in BeerTools.

 

[wildwest450]

I got 3.4 with BS2.

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[Koz]

Has anyone brewed this yet?

 

[jkarp]

Has anyone brewed this yet?

Many times. There's several recipes in this thread.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

Ok, I am going with the zymurgy recipe as closely as possible.

No time for step mashing, but this step may not be necessary anyhow.

I imbibed a few last night and I have to say: I don't think the SA recipe is 100% Pils. I am going to brew this up with proportions of 2 row and Pils as listed above.

Mashing in 30 minutes

PS-Love working from home and brew days--it's like getting paid to brew!

 

[BenS]

Awesome shroomz. I really can't taste the pils malt in this beer either and was going to make it using all 2row as soon as I can source all the different hops used in this recipe, which I think are much more important in cloning it.

 

[jgourd]

I'm putting it on the back burner as I have events to brew ales for in the early fall. I think I will try the Zymurgy recipe when it gets colder.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

Maybe in the future, I'll mess around with that mash schedule...seems awful short though. I mashed for 60 mins at 151.

Using a Pilsner yeast too=WLP800.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Anyone tried the decoction mentioned at the beginning of this thread? I'm pretty sure only 20% of the grist at 1.25 qt/lb won't even come close to raising the rest of the grist (also at 1.25 qt/lb) to 153* F. And the BBC guy emphasized 'quickly'...it's almost as if he's toying with people.


Also; from earlier itt:

Umm, I would venture that all beer drinkers but the most clueless BMC kind would know the difference between a two-row and pilsner based beer. Pretty basic stuff there chap.

Clueless BMC chaps are people too.

 

[bh10]

Thanks, we weren't even in the ballpark.

A definite re-brew is in order. That mash schedule looks a tad suspect (so does the ibu's), but I know what I need to do with it.

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With the IBU's he must of copied it done wrong, its actually 34 IBU's not 24 (looking at the Zymurgy issue now). Hopefully no one made it shooting for 24 IBU's.

As for the mash schedule, depending on the malt some can convert in 15 minutes when mashing at high temp's, 156-160º. Id just do an iodine test though.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

Ok, just finished up. Busy day today. Had a big customer escalation right around chill time..LOL. (Three cheers for the Plantronics CS50 headset!)

Beer Tools pro calc'd IBUs in the 38 range for me. Color says 3.2 SRM, though they always look darker in the fermenter.

Pretty close on OG at 1.048. Should be pitching in an hour or two. I'll check back in around a month and let you know how it tastes!

 

[shroomzofdoom]

I had this on the gas for about 5 days now and poured a glass. It came out a bit more bitter than SA NP, which I attribute to a a mistake in my hop additions. Color is pretty accurate to the original, but hazy--I am still waiting for the Pilsner yeast to settle out. A month lagering will do the trick. Overall though, the aroma is pretty close. I do think that using some Pale Malt is key, even though I dissed it earlier on this thread. I used the breakdowns provided above for grain. Instead of the step mashing I mashed at 152. I must say that this is pretty close to the original in terms of overall character and aroma. I am very happy with the results. I may need some more tweaking in terms of hops additions.

 

[jgourd]

Cool! I am scheduled to brew this one in a few weeks.

 

[shroomzofdoom]

Beer came out OK, hop profile was pretty close-not exact. Had some off flavors which I attribute to yeast/stress or a minor infection that didn't rear it's head until kegging. Overall, a very good beer and was a big hit. Just kicked it this past week. Making another shortly.

 

[Koz]

Has anyone brewed this lately. I did it several months back and I don't really think the hop charachter came out right, any other observations??

 

[ericwatkins_utk]

I'm actually going to attempt this one tomorrow or Sunday, depending on how the yeast starter goes. I'm going to stick pretty closely to the Zymurgy recipe and see how it turns out.

 

[steveschulte34]

Here is the recipe copied from Zymurgy for 5 US gallons:

7.2 lb 2-row
2.4 lb pils

2 oz hallertau 4.6%aa (60 min)
.5 oz saaz 4%aa (5 min)
.25 oz tettnang 4%aa (5 min)
.8 oz tettnang (dryhop)
.6 oz saaz (dryhop)
.4 oz spalt (dryhop)
.2 oz hersbrucker (dryhop)

lager yeast (Wyeast 2206)

OG 1.049
FG 1.012
IBU 24
SRM 5
Eff 70%

Mash in at 122 degrees for 10 min, raise to 154 degrees for 15 min, then raise to mash off of 170 degrees.

60 min boil
Ferment at 50 degrees until complete
Rack and lager at 32 degrees for 4 weeks

Bringing this one back because SA Noble Pils is just TOO good for us not to perfect this for all home brewers.... I'd be really curious to see what someone's opinion is who followed the Zymurgy recipe exactly.

So Two things -
1.) I saw earlier in this post someone mentioned that the exact grain used in SA NP was "Weyermanns Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner Malt", but then talk of using this was abandoned. Any reason? Is it possibly Zymurgy's recipe is close but was missing this as the primary grain?

2.) I know there was some confusion and questions around the mash profile, as did people on other forums, I dug this nugget up from Gordon Strong (Zymurgy's technical editor) - http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=8178.0 -
"That's what was in their original recipe. Seemed short to me; my system would need at least 30 minutes at that temperature, but conversion speeds vary. I'm guessing the difference is that on professional systems, they likely achieve a much more complete grind of the grain so that the starches convert quickly. On the average homebrew system, that duration is likely too aggressive. I would extend the 154F rest to 45 minutes to be safe. The 122F rest is a protein rest; 10 minutes is fine. The mash out temp (170F) is fine. The 154F rest is the last saccharification rest, so brewers should always interpret a recipe to include the phrase "or until conversion is complete" on the last rest. That's similar to a food recipe saying "cook until done" after giving a time estimate. An iodine test can confirm, but most mashes will fully convert in 30-60 minutes at the homebrew level. So, that's a good catch, and shows a difference between what can be accomplished on a professional system vs. the average homebrew system."

Hope that helps!!