Rye Saison - recipe help

[dawn_kiebawls]

Hey guys and gals, I'm putting together a Rye Saison recipe and am looking for some advice.

So far what I have is:

Fermentables:
62% German Pilsener
20% Malted Rye
08% Crystal 60L
08% Thyme Honey (added to primary after ~80% attenuation)
02% CaraMunich III (added just for color)

Hops:
1oz EKG at 60
1.5oz EKG at 10

Yeast:
The Mad Fermentationist Saison blend (Sacch, Brett, assorted bugs)
Fermented at room temp (~72F)

Extras:
1# Rice Hulls
Whirflock

Mash:
Single infusion, 60 minute mash at 154F

Questions:
Having never used Rye, I'm not sure which variety to go with. I would like a more pronounced flavor but have been reading horror stories about stuck mashes. Malted Rye sounds like it's what I need for the flavor compared to Flaked Rye, but Flaked seems to be easier/less hazardous to work with. Any thoughts?

Rice Hulls - I've never used rice hulls but have heard some conflicting information on how to use them. Some say to stir the hulls into the mash, but an article by BYO says to just create a 'bed' of hulls at the bottom of my MT. Is one method better than the other? My concern with making a bed in my MT would be when I stir the mash during batch sparge that I would just stir it all together.

Do I need to consider any specific water profile? I'll be using 100% Distilled and adjusting for pH using Brunwater. Would a standard Saison profile work well for this?



I think that's all I've got for now. As always, thanks for any and all help. Cheers!

 

[thehaze]

The rice hulls are a nice addition and useful. I like the honey in there, but not the crystal malts. They do not belong in a Saison. Simply go for 70% Pilsner + 30% Rye malt and you'll have a very nice beer. I don't see any IBUs, but as long as you are in the 30s, it should be fine.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

The rice hulls are a nice addition and useful. I like the honey in there, but not the crystal malts. They do not belong in a Saison. Simply go for 70% Pilsner + 30% Rye malt and you'll have a very nice beer. I don't see any IBUs, but as long as you are in the 30s, it should be fine.

Calculated IBUs are 27. I may tweak that just a little, but I was wanting a little bitterness to accentuate the honey aroma and the dry hops.

I brew a lot of Saisons and I agree that Crystal doesn't belong. One article/recipe I read said they include a small % of crystal 'to round it out'. Seemed strange to me so I thought I'd throw it out there and see what anyone else thought. I will probably take it out, but keep the CaraMunich III though. For some reason, when I hear Rye I want it to be dark. I'm weird like that though.

Would you make the 'bed' of rice hulls or mix them into the mash?

Thanks for the help. Cheers!

 

[thehaze]

30 IBUs are somewhat minimum what I would go for in a Saison, but you can definitely go lower. Do soak the rice hulls a bit before mixing them with the malts. I would not use the hulls to make a bed for the malts. As rye contains more beta-glucans or something, they will make for a slimey/sticky mash. So you want teh rice hulls to " fluff " up the malts, so that the wort ( either when reciruclating or sparging ) can run through the grains... easier. I've brewed with rye and I haven't experienced extreme issues with stuck mashes, and I've used up to 40% Rye. Sure, the sparge was slower, but it didn't bother me.

As for the crystal malts: if you really want a bit more colour in there, you can maybe squeeze 2-3% C-60, but not much more. At 10% as your recipe is seen above, seems a bit much. And of course, I don't want to tell you how to brew your beer or how it should turn out. I believe that when you have rye malt and a delicious thyme honey in the same recipe, you would want to showcase these. You would want these two ingredients to be perceived, even if subtle, along with the esters and phenolics of the yeast. I feel that rye and honey are better suited for a saison and for any refreshing (summer/year long ) beer, than crystal malts. And crystal malts - just as they also do in hoppy beers - tend to muddle/cover some of the finer aroma and flavour.

Cheers.