Rye flaked or malt?

[TrustyOlJohnson]

I am putting together a roggenbier recipe that has 36% rye malt and 6.7% rye flaked.. for reasons outside of this recipe, I am consider using no rye malt and 42.7% rye flaked.. how would that affect the recipe, If at all?

 

[TrustyOlJohnson]

Found it.. flaked grains have no diastatic power.. so.. no

 

[Yooper]

Found it.. flaked grains have no diastatic power.. so.. no

But most base malts have enough excess DP to convert adjuncts. I didn't do the math, but if you have 40% non-DP grains and 60% two-row or six-row you should have more than enough DP for conversion. You'd want at least a DP average of 30. I don't think you'd have any problem with that.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

But it does pose an interesting question...what is the difference between flaked and malted rye in the end product?

 

[JohnSand]

They differ in taste.
More importantly, a brew made with 43% flaked rye will result in the mother of all stuck mashes. That stuff really soaks up water.

 

[BigEd]

40%+ rye whether malted or not is a very high percentage. Most traditional rye beer recipes top out at 25-30% rye. If you go beyond that amount you could run into a stuck mash or a flavor & texture in the beer that will tell you why 25-30% is the usual max amount of rye. As always YMMV.

 

[Yooper]

40%+ rye whether malted or not is a very high percentage. Most traditional rye beer recipes top out at 25-30% rye. If you go beyond that amount you could run into a stuck mash or a flavor & texture in the beer that will tell you why 25-30% is the usual max amount of rye. As always YMMV.

I had a friend who did a 100% rye beer.

It tasted, well, not as bad as I thought it would. It was thick, though- "viscous" would not be too strong of a word for the texture.

I think 20% or so has a definite spicy note that I love, 25% is more of the same and I can only drink one of those usually.

I have seen quite a few recipes for roggenbiers that top 40% rye, but I've never had the urge to try one.

 

[Lefou]

But most base malts have enough excess DP to convert adjuncts. I didn't do the math, but if you have 40% non-DP grains and 60% two-row or six-row you should have more than enough DP for conversion. You'd want at least a DP average of 30. I don't think you'd have any problem with that.

I use Brewer's Friend online calculator.
One of their latest updates includes a diastatic number directly related to your grain choices. It's a neat widget for new brewers or people playing with the grist ratios to see how grain choices can affect mash conversion.

 

[Lefou]

Oh, just something I thought I'd pass on ... seasoned and experienced brewers probably already know this, though, but I'll put it out there anyway for new brewers.

Unmalted adjuncts require extra enzymatic content from base malts to convert. Let's take wheat, for example. If you substitute malted wheat in place of umalted wheat, your DP conversion level will increase. Some lightly kilned wheats can have a higher amylase content than an equal amount of barley Pilsner malt.
This means a higher DP level will increase conversion rates. If you mash at a lower temp, fermentability increases and you can get a drier beer. An online calculator may not reflect that reality, so don't be surprised if your beer's measured final gravity is lower than what software predictions may lead you to believe. I've seen a few new brewers comment about final gravities below what they'd calculated, then seem surprised their beer finished faster with no problems.

It happened to me. Knowing this, you can intentionally create some very nice, light dry beers gained from a flash of new insight. At one point, I added malted wheat, ground it to near flour, AND added amylase enzyme to my mash.
What happened? I hit my mash temperatures and original gravity numbers, but the final gravity before bottling was almost 10 points off.
Then it hit me what I'd done. At first, there was some confusion, then it dawned on me what happened. Later on, it hit me how I could leverage that to make better beer.

 

[Denny]

But it does pose an interesting question...what is the difference between flaked and malted rye in the end product?

Malted rye has much more flavor than flaked.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Hi Denny! More "spiciness" flavor? What other flavors do you get from malted vs flaked rye?
I also wonder how much malted rye contributes to the gummy, sticky mess that brewing with rye can turn into vs the flaked. I live nowhere near a brew supply but can get flaked rye at the health food CoOp so I tend to use it a lot

 

[mongoose33]

I do a rye beer with 9# maris otter, 3# rye malt, 4 oz flaked rye, and 6 oz chocolate wheat.

I wouldn't go any more rye than that. I happen to like the flavor but people either do or don't--I don't find a lot of people ambivalent about it. It has a very rich mouthfeel.

I probably could live without the flaked rye, but the beer is so good (to me) that I'm not fooling w/ the recipe. BTW, I use Wyeast 2112 as the yeast, ferment at 64 degrees.

 

[Denny]

Hi Denny! More "spiciness" flavor? What other flavors do you get from malted vs flaked rye?
I also wonder how much malted rye contributes to the gummy, sticky mess that brewing with rye can turn into vs the flaked. I live nowhere near a brew supply but can get flaked rye at the health food CoOp so I tend to use it a lot

Definitely more spiciness, but also more rye flavor...kinda like "breadier" but not exactly.

I've used as much as 60% malted rye with no problems. Wasn't a huge fan of the beer with that much, but no lautering issues. But that will largely depend on your lautering system. With my braid, I never get stuck runoffs.

 

[mattech]

The other day I tried a side by side batch I made, one with flaked rye and the other with rye malt. I found the flaked one to have a thicker mouthfeel, and a raw spiciness. The malted one was a little smoother, both in taste and mouthfeel. No less spicy, just a little more well rounded.

I'd use them interchangeably on most beers.