Russian Imperial Stout Water Profile

[jbrew87]

I will be brewing a russian imperial stout this week and built the following water profile:
5 Gallon Batch
2 Row Pale Ale Malt 13.2
CaraRed 1.6
Roast Barley 1
Black Patent Malt 1
DME 2

I'm using RO water. I'm using EZ Water Calculator 3.0.2
5.5 Gallons Mash
3.5 Sparge

For Mash:
Gypsum 1G
Calc Chlo 3.5G
Epsom 3G
Baking Soda 1G

For Sparge:
Same ratios as above adjusted for 3.5 Gallons

Result:
Ca 57
Mg 13
Na 13
Cl 81
SO4 83
Cl/So4 .98

Est PH 5.51

Is anyone else using Ez_Water_Calculator3.0.2?
What are you using for water profiles, calculations?
It seams that the lactic acid addition calculation is way off
I rarely need to do any PH up according to the spreadsheet.
I don't have a pH meter, I had pH strips, but they were wildly inaccurate.

Any help appreciated.

 

[Dgallo]

***deleted by mistake*** hopefully got a chance to read it

 

[Dgallo]

I just noticed something though.... are you sure you only need 1g of baking soda in a RO Russian imperial stout. I start with my tap that already has a 120 bicarbonate and with that I still need 5 gr in mash to get the ph back up in a good spot. Unless I’m missing something here, 1gr isn’t nearly enough

 

[jbrew87]

I just noticed something though.... are you sure you only need 1g of baking soda in a RO Russian imperial stout. I start with my tap that already has a 120 bicarbonate and with that I still need 5 gr in mash to get the ph back up in a good spot. Unless I’m missing something here, 1gr isn’t nearly enough

See that's what I'm confused about. Most recipes I saw show more baking soda, but if I put that into the calculator the pH estimate is really high. The calculator shows me 5.5

 

[Dgallo]

See that's what I'm confused about. Most recipes I saw show more baking soda, but if I put that into the calculator the pH estimate is really high. The calculator shows me 5.5

Have you entered the grainbill in to the program correctly, including the correct lovibond of the grains?

 

[jbrew87]

Have you entered the grainbill in to the program correctly, including the correct lovibond of the grains?

I do and it shows 5.52pH if I didn't add anything.

 

[Dgallo]

I do and it shows 5.52pH if I didn't add anything.

They don’t tell you what the lovi of the roasted grains are? If I were you I’d download Bru’n water and plug it all in because there is no way no adjustments would give you a 5.5 in RO water. With out a buffer, 2 lbs of roasted grains will certainly pull your ph farther down than that. Even a pale grainbill would be near tht with RO

 

[jbrew87]

No, it treats all roasted grains the same. Crystal you can enter the lovi. I just plugged into Bru'n and yes results are very different. I will play with that to come up with something.

 

[cire]

Whatever your conclusion for baking soda, you won't need any in the sparge liquor. That would raise pH of your runnings to potentially extract tannins etc as the gravity and buffering influence of the remaining sugars fall.

My stouts are always chloride forward to avoid over-dry beers.

 

[jbrew87]

Thanks for the tip, I will not be adding baking soda to the sparge liquor. Using Bru'n, here is what I came up with:
5.5G Mash w/
CaSO4 1.4G
CaCl 1.7G
MgSO4 1.4G
NaHCO3 8.3G

3.5 Sparge w/
Gypsum .9G
CaCl 11.1G
MgSO4 0.9G

Est. pH Result: 5.49

These results are quite a bit different from EZ, however they seem to make more sense. Do these numbers seem more in-line?
I need to invest in a decent pH meter so I can verify things in my own setup.

 

[Dgallo]

Yes, those number look very typical for a stout that is starting out with RO water. I would go with it. I’m sure someone will chime in and tell you that you na is too high but I can promise you that it is not. (Seems high but it will not come across as a salt flavor at all, it’s below that threshold for mostly everyone)

 

[cire]

Thanks for the tip, I will not be adding baking soda to the sparge liquor. Using Bru'n, here is what I came up with:
5.5G Mash w/
CaSO4 1.4G
CaCl 1.7G
MgSO4 1.4G
NaHCO3 8.3G

3.5 Sparge w/
Gypsum .9G
CaCl 11.1G
MgSO4 0.9G

Est. pH Result: 5.49

These results are quite a bit different from EZ, however they seem to make more sense. Do these numbers seem more in-line?
I need to invest in a decent pH meter so I can verify things in my own setup.

It's difficult to determine a suitable level of alkalinity without knowing the precise recipe, but even so I'd not expect that much alkalinity in an RIS.

I'm in UK where the overwhelming majority just treat their water supply for brewing. My water has an alkalinity level similar to what you are proposing for your mash, but I would always reduce its level when brewing stouts. AMS is commonly used here for that purpose and this data sheet contains typical ion levels used for various styles in UK.

I wouldn't necessarily suggest that level of sodium was excessive, but it will however influence the taste which sometimes can be beneficial in darker beers.

I don't use software to predict mash pH as each seem to give different answers.

Good luck with your brew.