rubber stopper imparting bad flavor?

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tartrazine

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Hello,
I'm pretty new to wine making and have been doing a lot of fruit wines. I have a 3 gallons of blueberry, 3 gallons of crabapple, a gallon of blackberry and a gallon of strawberry going.

Anyway I've been using rubber stoppers with holes in them for airlocks on my secondary fermenters. These things are the kind of rubber that smells like rubber, and with all the sampling I've done it seems like there is a distinct rubber taste in my wine. Am I imagining this? If this is really the case I can't imagine why anyone would ever use rubber stoppers??

My LHBS is midwest supplies as they have a large storefront at their warehouse. I see there are plastic ones available so I guess I'll be getting those but was wondering if other people noticed a similar thing?
 
I use rubber stoppers for my air locks and I havent noticed any flavor leaching into my wines. It might be something that your brain is associating with the smell and thus the taste. When I get new stoppers I boil some water remove from heat and soak for an hour, I've always done that and don't know if others do. I would think if it was an issue that it would be standard practice BUT maybe your sensitive to rubber or something.
 
The only way the stoppers would effect your wine is if it comes into contact with it. That means you fill the carboy to full. Have done that as when racked it was not touching and then the next day it was so. In that case get a turkey baster and pull some out....
 
tartrazine said:
Hello,
I'm pretty new to wine making and have been doing a lot of fruit wines. I have a 3 gallons of blueberry, 3 gallons of crabapple, a gallon of blackberry and a gallon of strawberry going.

Anyway I've been using rubber stoppers with holes in them for airlocks on my secondary fermenters. These things are the kind of rubber that smells like rubber, and with all the sampling I've done it seems like there is a distinct rubber taste in my wine. Am I imagining this? If this is really the case I can't imagine why anyone would ever use rubber stoppers??

My LHBS is midwest supplies as they have a large storefront at their warehouse. I see there are plastic ones available so I guess I'll be getting those but was wondering if other people noticed a similar thing?
Click to expand...

I've never made wine, but I think I know exactly what you mean by the rubber stopper smell- and just recently had been having this problem with some of my beers. I've gotten advice from possible oxidation, to infection, to using a rubber stopper without soaking it in something first.

And after trying a couple of test batches and constant searching on the forms, it seems the answer for me is fermentation temperature: too high.
The rubber stopper (or what I called burnt plastic as well) smell seems to be an off-aroma/ flavor from sulfur compounds given off by the heat stressed yeast. Low and behold, after I fermented at 18-19C instead of 20-23C. The problem was solved.

Possibly this could point you into the right direction to fix your wine as well? The good news (so I've read- I dumped my rubbery pale ale) is that the yeast will clear it up if given long enough:)

Hope this helps! Best of Luck!
 
tartrazine said:
Hello,
I'm pretty new to wine making and have been doing a lot of fruit wines. I have a 3 gallons of blueberry, 3 gallons of crabapple, a gallon of blackberry and a gallon of strawberry going.

Anyway I've been using rubber stoppers with holes in them for airlocks on my secondary fermenters. These things are the kind of rubber that smells like rubber, and with all the sampling I've done it seems like there is a distinct rubber taste in my wine. Am I imagining this? If this is really the case I can't imagine why anyone would ever use rubber stoppers??

My LHBS is midwest supplies as they have a large storefront at their warehouse. I see there are plastic ones available so I guess I'll be getting those but was wondering if other people noticed a similar thing?
Click to expand...

I've gotten that off flavour in wine & mead before, tastes just like a rubber stopper smells; I'm convinced it's due to high fermentation temps. Those are fusel alchohols causing it, but the good news is that they'll age out; might take a while, but they do indeed age out.

The only way I've found to avoid this is to control the temp during fermentation. Try to keep the temp closer to the low end of the suggested temp range on the yeast packet/vial. Keep in mind that the actual temp of the fermentation will be a few degrees higher than the stick-on thermometer strips on the outside of the carbouy indicates. The yeast actually generate heat during fermentation.
Hope this helps. Regards, GF.
 
I've recently experienced this myself in a costco wine kit. After some research it does seem that temperature can be responsible for this (I was hitting just over 80*F which is a bit high, but i'm not sure if this is stressing my lavlin 1118). Another possibility is the lack of nutrients for the yeast - apparently low nutrients may cause them to produce more H2S or similar...I've repeated another batch of similar wine and this taste (and smell!!) isn't there after adding the appropriate amount of nutrient a couple of days after pitching (ideally you should add it before - but i didn't...)

Here's a website that outlines ways to get rid of this taste using copper sulfate (not sure how easy this is to get but I work in a lab so I have access) and ascorbic acid. it didn't work for me, but I didn't increase the amount of CuSO4 as they recommended...

http://www.vawa.net/winemaking-articles/hydrogensulfide.html
 
yes costco! it's great because they have double kits (to make 60 bottles) for about $75. Really cheap!

I think I'll experiment with different amounts of CuSO4 to see if I can rid of this odor...I'll let you guys know!
 
You can find their kits on the website, which includes shipping and handling. I just got a green apple reisling for $45! Apparently very goood...

They get their stuff from Paklab which is located in quebec. they also offer free shippng, at least at the moment for me in ontario. their prices are similar to costco's so you might want to check that out (plus lots of variety!)
 
:off: Sorry to hack your thread, but I went to Costco's website and can't find any wine kits. Can you post a link. The Green apple reisling sounds great! Thanks!-Giddy
 
Thanks for the info. I'm glad it sounds like I'll be able to avoid this in the future.

It's interesting to note that most people I've had sample my wine can't taste the rubbery off taste that I notice but its very distinct to me.

Any thoughts on how long this will take to age out? Should I leave it in a carboy until it improves or age it bottled?
 
The smell of the rubber stoppers sold at my local brew supply shop make me physically ill. It's not just "rubber smell" but a very strong synthetic rubber smell (much like brand new car tires). In my opinion these are highly toxic and would definitely impart a "rubber" smell to your beer or wine, simply by off-gassing. With all due respect to the other posters, nothing to do with fermentation temperature.

My stopper was so bad, I wrapped it in a plastic baggie to avoid it contaminating my cider. I thought I was safe but then noticed the smell was actually passing through the plastic baggie. At that point I through the stopper in the trash and simply put a screw lid loosely on jug and crossed my fingers (it turned out all right!)

Since then, I've been searching desperately for "non-toxic" rubbber stoppers, or even cork, which led me to your post.

Good luck, and please let me know if anyone knows of alternatives to these awful, toxic stoppers!
 
notoxChris said:
The smell of the rubber stoppers sold at my local brew supply shop make me physically ill. It's not just "rubber smell" but a very strong synthetic rubber smell (much like brand new car tires). In my opinion these are highly toxic and would definitely impart a "rubber" smell to your beer or wine, simply by off-gassing. With all due respect to the other posters, nothing to do with fermentation temperature.

My stopper was so bad, I wrapped it in a plastic baggie to avoid it contaminating my cider. I thought I was safe but then noticed the smell was actually passing through the plastic baggie. At that point I through the stopper in the trash and simply put a screw lid loosely on jug and crossed my fingers (it turned out all right!)

Since then, I've been searching desperately for "non-toxic" rubbber stoppers, or even cork, which led me to your post.

Good luck, and please let me know if anyone knows of alternatives to these awful, toxic stoppers!
Click to expand...


I have to ask when I read this: Toxicity is a completely different question from whether or not something is pleasant. What do you think is in there that is toxic?

Also, when I read that the smell is passing through a plastic baggie, I have to wonder if another process creates a similar smell that can be mistaken for the smell from the stopper. I really am having a difficult time seeing how enough of a complex molecule to cause a rubber smell can pass through something as impermeable as a plastic baggie. Maybe I'm not understanding your setup, but I'm having trouble finding an explanation I can trust with this.

All of my equipment is fairly new since I'm a pretty new vinter. I have not yet had anyting resembling a rubber stopper smell in my wine. I'd tend to think that something in the process going bad is much more responsible for such a smell. But as I said, I'm still pretty much a novice, so I'm open to instruction/correction.
 
notoxChris said:
The smell of the rubber stoppers sold at my local brew supply shop make me physically ill. It's not just "rubber smell" but a very strong synthetic rubber smell (much like brand new car tires). In my opinion these are highly toxic and would definitely impart a "rubber" smell to your beer or wine, simply by off-gassing. With all due respect to the other posters, nothing to do with fermentation temperature.

My stopper was so bad, I wrapped it in a plastic baggie to avoid it contaminating my cider. I thought I was safe but then noticed the smell was actually passing through the plastic baggie. At that point I through the stopper in the trash and simply put a screw lid loosely on jug and crossed my fingers (it turned out all right!)

Since then, I've been searching desperately for "non-toxic" rubbber stoppers, or even cork, which led me to your post.

Good luck, and please let me know if anyone knows of alternatives to these awful, toxic stoppers!
Click to expand...

You are correct here. It has nothing to do with fermentation.
I have a the same #6 stoppers and the smell will just about make you gag. I took mine out of my 1 gal. wine jugs and managed to shove a 5 gal. carboy stopper in there that has no smell. In the meantime, I'm going to look for a smaller stopper that is made out of the same material as the carboy stopper.
 
Please, Wolverine can you give me any information about the brand or supplier of the stoppers that you say have no odor? The smelly ones I have access to are white rubber... It seems to me when I was brewing 15 years ago I had kind of pinkish, non smelly rubber ones. I suppose the difference now is that most are made in China...

SteveHoward, I appreciate your feedback. You're right I don't know they are toxic, I'm just guessing that because they make me feel ill (I know, I know, natural stuff can make you ill too!) But toxic or not, you don't want to put anything with an offensive smell in direct or even air contact with your brew; if you do, you're likely to get some off-tastes (that not everyone would notice.) I would just ask you, take one of your (newer) stoppers and give it a good smell. Does it have a strong, unpleasant smell or not? If not, please let me know where you got it so I can try to get one of the same! Thanks to all, Cheers
 
The stoppers I use are these: Universal Stopper Large Solid

The smallest size at Mountain Homebrew is the one I use as it fits my carboys just fine. There is no real small that I can detect. All I did prior to first use was to sanitize using potassium metabisulfite.

Mountain Homebrew is not the cheapest place by far. They're just located conveniently for me, so that's who I've used.
 
I don't see how the rubber stoppers can impart a smell if they're not even in contact with the wine..? And your claims of toxicity are unfounded! Don't put crazy things in people's heads. I doubt they would sell a product that is used in making booze that is outrageously toxic. Coincidentally I hear alcohol is pretty toxic too ;)

BTW, I came to terms with the smell of my rank merlot as being due to the age of the wine. The kit was packaged in early 2009. 2 years old! I'm certain that this had something to do with this off-taste. However the other kit that was provided (it was a double - a cab. sauv.) tastes fine but also has this dark almost brown color much like the merlot.
 
Thank you Steve. Yes, in fact I have seen these, and you're right: they are not very smelly at all. I could totally live with these, but the one I tried was wrong size and I didn't think to look for other sizes (in fact I wasn't really sure what this type of stopper was intended for--my brew store is not full service, just a liquor store with basic supplies.)
The ones giving me grief (and perhaps Wolverine and other too?) look like these: http://milehibrewingsupplies.com/me...eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/t/stopper_7.jpg
(Mind you I say "LOOK like these"; I am not in any way suggesting this vendor has stinky stoppers!!!)
I guess the moral is... when posting about specific products send a picture so everyone knows what's what. And I pledge to avoid using the word "toxic" whenever not absolutely required!
Thanks for very helpful replies. Glad I signed up for this forum.
 
I am not sure of the manufacturer of these #6 stoppers. I bought them loose from my LHBS from a small bin. I believe there was a small bar code sticker on it but that was all. These are very porous, unlike the larger carboy stoppers, which I believe helps to emit that car tire rubber smell.
For the $1 I spent (for 2) it's not a big deal to retire them but from now on, I will watch what I buy.....or at least smell them first.
 
The same problem with some Mulberry wine I made but left in the carboy for one year. I think the wine condensated on the rubber and then fell back into the wine. Unfortunately it ruined my first batch of Mulberry wine. I replaced my stopper with one that does not have the rubber smell or taste. You're definitely not imagining that flavor. It tastes terrible.
 

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