Roselare blend starter to increase sourness in first pitch

[robotinc]

I have read that one shouldn't make starters with mixed cultures as the ratio of the various yeasts/bacterias get unbalanced. I have also heard that the first beer made with the roselare blend won't be as tart as subsequent beers tossed on the yeastcake.

I am planning on a sour with an og of 1.090. I was planning on multiple smack packs due to the og, but thinking about the above makes me lean towards starters.

Thoughts? Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[poeq]

you're not gonna have enough information on all the particular strains that produce sour and funky flavors rate of growth to have any idea/control of whether or not you're going to make the beer more sour or less sour with a starter. idk how you decided pitching on yeast cake is the same thing as making starter.

also you're probably going to have a really hard time getting a really sour beer with an og that high no matter what. i would re adjust the recipe to something less alcoholic, with low ibus and just pitch the pack straight. you really never see commercial examples of boozy sours because the environment of a beer high in alcohol is a totally different animal and doesn't work with the funk and sour bacteria.

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

Bugs take a while to do their thing. When "they" say the second pitch is aore sour profile, what may or may not be understood is that the second pitch generally does not happen for many months after the fact. Sometimes 3-12 months later. During this time, the process is roughly, yeast ferment and settle out in the 2-4 week range, after that the bugs start to take hold and multiply. Since the yeast are dormant, and the bugs can feed on food sources the yeast simply cannot, given enough time they outnumber the yeast, thus creating that sour profile.

By making a starter you are not giving the bugs enough time to do their thing, but the yeast only needs a relatively short time to do its thing. You are therefore increasing the population of yeast, but not bugs.

Now could this work for a high gravity beer that you are proposing? I have never tried it, but I would say yes and no. Yes, in the fact that you are increasing the yeast cell count, which is something that you definitely need to do, in a big beer, if you expect to get fermentation.

No, in the fact, that, in a high alcahol environment, you are not providing the bugs a medium which is conducive to their multiplication.

So,'while you may achieve a big beer that ferments fully,'it will probably not develop the sourness you are looking for

 

[TommyTbar]

I used the roselare blend on a sour beer with an og of 1.080 first pitch with two packets also an addition of two bottles worth of Jolly Pumpkin dreggs. Wyeast doesn't recommend a starter as it will throw off the ratios of bugs giving you a unknown outcome. That beer was definitely "sour" not acidic sour from to much oxygen/ acetic bacteria, also i have brewed other high OG sours with great "sour" results so i have to disagree with the last post. The second beer i pitched on the cake was definitely more sour tho. i would also recommend leaving the beer on the primary yeast cake for as long as possible this will speed up the sour factor. No worry for yeast autolysis roselare has two strains of brett that will east dead yeast cells. If you use the cake more than two times i would recommend pitching more brewers yeast as sacc will die well before the other bugs. Also mash high even on a beer with that high of an og, the unfermentables will give the bugs more to feed on helping the souring process and will still result in a low og. brett will eat just about anything you give it. So dont make a starter there is other things that can help resulting in a more sour beer. and dont worry about cost if your making sour beer

 

[robotinc]

Thanks for the reply all. The recipe is based of one from wild brews and one from American sours, so I'm not worried about the og. I have sour cascade dregs that I'll add to a double pitch of whichever culture I end up using. Thanks all

 

[masonsjax]

I've got a 1+ year old first pitch Roeselare carbing up on tap now that is pretty tasty, but barely sour. I would definitely add some dregs at the very least. I'd probably go ahead and make an anaerobic starter and see what happens if I were to use a fresh pack of Roeselare again.

 

[inhousebrew]

several years ago when I made my flanders red I used that yeast/bug blend and after six months it wasn't very sour at all. I read up that it may just take time or that with a first pitching it may not get too sour at all so I got a couple bottles of Jolly Pumpkin's La Roja and tossed those in there. End result is pretty dang tart.