Rookie needing some advice

[paulmichele1210]

As you will possibly tell I'm a total rookie at brewing but figured hell if they can make hard cider in prison then I must stand a chance. I have started a 5 gallon batch using store brought juice, some fresh apples, 2 pints of strong tea, 3 lb of honey and 1 kilo of sugar. I wasn't sure how much yeast to use so opted for a large sachet of Nottingham and a small sachet of cider yeast. Within 6 hours it's bubbling like every 4 seconds. I figured this was a good sign but I'd kinda love to know though if I have used to much yeast or to much sugar / honey and what will happen now. How long will it ferment for and do I need to secondary ferment. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


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[morticaixavier]

As you will possibly tell I'm a total rookie at brewing but figured hell if they can make hard cider in prison then I must stand a chance. I have started a 5 gallon batch using store brought juice, some fresh apples, 2 pints of strong tea, 3 lb of honey and 1 kilo of sugar. I wasn't sure how much yeast to use so opted for a large sachet of Nottingham and a small sachet of cider yeast. Within 6 hours it's bubbling like every 4 seconds. I figured this was a good sign but I'd kinda love to know though if I have used to much yeast or to much sugar / honey and what will happen now. How long will it ferment for and do I need to secondary ferment. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


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sounds like an interesting recipe. is the strong tea just brewed black tea? that would be a way to get some tannin balance in the cider.

The fresh apples are probably not needed but probably won't hurt anything either. They will likely introduce some wild yeasts of their own to the game making for a more interesting finished product.

with the 3 lb of honey and ~2 lb of sugar it's gonna be strong and you are right around the correct amount of yeast.

Give it plenty of time and keep it as cool as you can (<65 if possible) and you should be alright.

 

[dallas996]

As you will possibly tell I'm a total rookie at brewing but figured hell if they can make hard cider in prison then I must stand a chance. I have started a 5 gallon batch using store brought juice, some fresh apples, 2 pints of strong tea, 3 lb of honey and 1 kilo of sugar. I wasn't sure how much yeast to use so opted for a large sachet of Nottingham and a small sachet of cider yeast. Within 6 hours it's bubbling like every 4 seconds. I figured this was a good sign but I'd kinda love to know though if I have used to much yeast or to much sugar / honey and what will happen now. How long will it ferment for and do I need to secondary ferment. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


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I frequently do my batches with 5.5 gallons of juice and 3lbs of honey. This puts the OG somewhere around 1.064-1.068; I usually get to 1.010 in about 10 days using Notty which is when I usually drop it into a secondary (due to the amount of lees I have), so you would probably need to tack on a day or 3 for the additional sugar to get to there. I would say if you want to go all the way to dry, throw it into a secondary at that point and finish it in the secondary (sometimes I drop mine all the way or cold crash around 005 or 006 for a little added sweetness); but everyone seems to have a different opinion.

 

[bernardsmith]

My guess is that the apple juice (assuming it has no added sugar ) will have a gravity of about 1.045 and the honey and sugar will raise that gravity in five gallons another .040 so you are about 1.085 which is closer to a wine than a hard cider. If everything ferments out then you will have a cider with about 11% alcohol.
If you can , I would get myself an inexpensive hydrometer to measure the specific gravity and not imagine that you can tell when all the sugars have fermented by counting the bubbles /minute in an airlock. In fact , I would ferment the apple juice in a wide mouthed bucket until the gravity drops close to 1.005 and then rack (transfer by siphon) from the bucket to a glass carboy that holds 5 gallons and that you can seal with a rubber bung and attach an airlock to that bung. During the first few days - while the juice is in the bucket I would agitate the juice to drive air into the mix and allow the CO2 to escape.

I would also add some yeast nutrient to the juice. What you don't want is the yeast to be stressed because of a lack of nutrients (I believe they need potassium and thiamin) . If they stress then they produce hydrogen sulfide and that smells like rotten eggs.

Last point, In my opinion, when you use commercially produced apple juice it seems to me that the mouth-feel of the cider is less rich than when you use juice pressed from local orchards. I suspect that the reason is simply because the makers of commercial apple juice filter out as much of the solids as they can while the local orchards that press apples don't. It's those particulates in the cider microscopic though they may be that add mouth-feel to the cider.

 

[paulmichele1210]

Great advice thanks. I plan to syphon into a carboy after 10 days then secondary ferment until I get around 1005. I was wondering if I could stop the fermentation there with some Camden tablets and after a week I was going to keg it. I figured I would get some residual sweetness and I could then carb it with co2. That's my plan lol hope I'm in the right direction. Would that work or am I totally going down the wrong path.


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[morticaixavier]

Great advice thanks. I plan to syphon into a carboy after 10 days then secondary ferment until I get around 1005. I was wondering if I could stop the fermentation there with some Camden tablets and after a week I was going to keg it. I figured I would get some residual sweetness and I could then carb it with co2. That's my plan lol hope I'm in the right direction. Would that work or am I totally going down the wrong path.


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don't transfer until you've reached your target gravity then go straight into the keg. if you miss and it's a little too dry, after you've stabilized with potassium metabisulfate you can add more juice or even frozen concentrate to get your desired sweetness and it won't ferment out as long as you keep everything cold.

 

[paulmichele1210]

Great thanks I'll go that way then. Concentrate apple juice is hard to buy here in uk but I'll try adding some sweetener if I need it.


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[morticaixavier]

Great thanks I'll go that way then. Concentrate apple juice is hard to buy here in uk but I'll try adding some sweetener if I need it.


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yeah, it doesn't have to be concentrated apple juice, honey or sugar would be fine. the concentrate will really bump the fresh apple flavor though.

I also seem to remember that when stabalizing a cider or mead you want to use both Potassium metabisulfate and potassium sorbate. but I wouldn't swear by that

 

[bernardsmith]

You do need to add both K-meta and K-sorbate BUT if the starting gravity was about 1.090 (+ or -) and if you are using a yeast that can tolerate 8-10 %ABV then K-meta and K-sorb are not going to do very much to prevent the yeast from fermenting the residual or added sugar. What they do is prevent the yeast from reproducing. Doesn't do a thing to prevent the live cells from gobbling up the sugar and producing alcohol and CO2. When the cells die they die... but when they are alive they don't stop working.
One thing you can do with fresh apple juice is freeze it and then allow it to thaw (melt) slowly, carefully collecting the juice that thaws first. You should find that if you freeze a gallon and collect about 1/3 of a gallon the gravity of that third will be about twice the gravity of the original - in other words, what thaws first are the sugars. This is a way of freeze-concentrating the juice. This is one way of making cider at higher ABVs without the need to add sugar. It's also a way then of concentrating the apple flavors

 

[paulmichele1210]

I used 1 sachet of Nottingham and a small sachet of cider yeast. It's fermenting like crazy and has been for the past 6 days now. I would like to try and keep a little sweetness so was wondering is I could stop it with Camden tablets. If that would work or if I just have to let it ferment until it stops and then back sweeten with the concentrate which I'll try making or some non ferment able sugar. I am intending putting it in a king keg as well and carbing it. I was wondering though how long it would keep


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[morticaixavier]

I used 1 sachet of Nottingham and a small sachet of cider yeast. It's fermenting like crazy and has been for the past 6 days now. I would like to try and keep a little sweetness so was wondering is I could stop it with Camden tablets. If that would work or if I just have to let it ferment until it stops and then back sweeten with the concentrate which I'll try making or some non ferment able sugar. I am intending putting it in a king keg as well and carbing it. I was wondering though how long it would keep


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yeah, there's no way of stopping it. as bernardsmith says. the available products will prevent it from starting up again but first you have to get rid of most of the yeast that area already there.

You can try waiting till it's totally done and drops bright, then cold crash for a week or so then fine with gelatin and then dose with K-Meta and K-Sorbate, keg and keep it really cold.

it terms of how long it will keep, under co2 pressure in a keg at cold temps? quite a long time. A year maybe? maybe longer!

 

[paulmichele1210]

I'm thinking 1 tablet pet gallon k-meta but not sure how much sorbate per gallon to use. And how long after adding would I wait before back sweetening


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