Rice "powder"? Is that the same as...

[HarshBloke]

Hello brewers. Nooby here. I have a question about rice adjuncts. This is a bit of a long post; please bear with me.

For my next brew, I've decided I want to try a light lager (partial mash). I've read that rice syrup solids are a good adjunct for this.

Now, I live in Japan, where homebrewing supplies are not as readily available as the US or other countries. I asked my regular supplies guy if he stocked rice syrup solids, and his reply confused me a bit.

He said they used to stock "rice powder", but don't have it anymore. He suggested I could pick up rice powder at a supermarket or rice shop.

But, hang on! Is "rice powder" the same as rice syrup solids? I thought rice syrup was a sugary substance made with rice and other enzymes like those from barley. Rice powder is, of course, just a powdered form of rice. Surely they're two different things?

Will "rice powder" add fermentables to my brew?

Thanks in advance. All advice appreciated.

 

[RCCOLA]

From what I could find about rice powder, it is a thickener similar to corn starch.
This means it would have to be used in a mash to convert the starches to sugars.
If you're doing a partial mash just throw it in and it should convert.

If you are using more than around 15% adjunct in the partial mash you should probably use 6-row malt to ensure complete conversion. (2-row is only good for about 10-15% adjunct)

 

[HarshBloke]

Thanks RCCOLA. Much appreciated.

I have a follow-up question if you don't mind.

Assuming rice powder has to be added to the mash, does that mean that the process for adding rice powder is the same as adding actual rice? (I mean, I have regular rice right here at home; could I use that and get the same results as rice powder?)

All input welcome

 

[RCCOLA]

You can, but you should use minute rice (parboiled) rice.

If you use regular rice, then you will have to do a cereal mash to get the starches from it.

I use minute rice and run it thru my mill with the grains to break it up-probably not necessary but I want all the fermentables I can get from it.

 

[HarshBloke]

Thanks a lot, RCCOLA.

Time for a bit of experimentation, I think...

 

[budbo]

I would stay away from rice powder, mash in minute rice or flaked rice, or use the rice syrup solids. Rice Powder is going to act on the beer like malto, and probably cause a stuck mash (it is after all flour)

 

[HarshBloke]

I would stay away from rice powder, mash in minute rice or flaked rice, or use the rice syrup solids. Rice Powder is going to act on the beer like malto, and probably cause a stuck mash (it is after all flour)

Glue in my beer, eh? Hmmm...

Thanks for the advice, budbo.

Yeah, when I mentioned experimenting in my previous post, I was thinking about sourcing some syrup solids online from the US and doing a brew with that, and mashing in some rice (not powder) in a second brew. I wonder what the differences might be...

 

[mordantly]

ive got a few #s of powdered rice syrup in my bag of tricks. not sure when to use it but at northernbrewer it was the best deal.. http://www.northernbrewer.com/default/rice-syrup-solids-1-lb.html

 

[codybaldwin]

Well this thread is years old now, but I have the same question.

Surely they must sell rice solids in Japan, I just can't find what they're called (the translation must not be correct).

Looks like the OP hasn't been around since 2012. I was looking to make a Dos Equis clone and noticed a lot of these styles of lagers call for rice solids. You'd think it'd be pretty common here in Japan.

If by some chance the OP sees this, if you can remember, how did the experiment go?

I'd rather not import it if I could make it here. Perhaps there is some way to incorporate this information in the process, if I can't find rice solids:
https://food-hacks.wonderhowto.com/...eer-sake-is-easier-make-just-as-good-0160102/

 

[RCCOLA]

Well this thread is years old now, but I have the same question.

Surely they must sell rice solids in Japan, I just can't find what they're called (the translation must not be correct).

Looks like the OP hasn't been around since 2012. I was looking to make a Dos Equis clone and noticed a lot of these styles of lagers call for rice solids. You'd think it'd be pretty common here in Japan.

If by some chance the OP sees this, if you can remember, how did the experiment go?

I'd rather not import it if I could make it here. Perhaps there is some way to incorporate this information in the process, if I can't find rice solids:
https://food-hacks.wonderhowto.com/...eer-sake-is-easier-make-just-as-good-0160102/

Cody, are you brewing all grain or extract? If all grain, you can use minute rice or cooked rice.

 

[codybaldwin]

Cody, are you brewing all grain or extract? If all grain, you can use minute rice or cooked rice.

I brew all grain.

Without getting into it too much, rice is just different here. I don't think I'll be able to find minute rice exactly like in the states, but they do have plain instant rice here (link to a google search of the word in Japanese).

I'm interested in the cooked rice option, too, though. Any more information on that (I'll also do a forum search here in a moment)--but if you have personal experience I'd love to hear about it. I wonder if the instant rice here can be calculated the same as the instant rice in America, sense it's assuredly a different species.

Japanese rice is the best in the world (according to the Japanese anyway, lol), they have import/export restriction and heavy subsidies to protect the industry. Though they have started cultivating their rice in other regions of the world. I've heard primarily in Egypt, oddly enough. The sake brewers here are amazing. I would have no problem getting my hands on sake rice, perhaps I should go the cooked rice route. Just not super excited about introducing yet another variable I don't yet understand (I'm still perfecting my process with my new system and water as I've recently moved).

 

[RCCOLA]

I use instant rice (Minute rice). I throw it into my grain and run it thru the mill although it doesn't need to be milled. If using cooked rice (I haven't) you have to acct for the heat of it unless it is at room temp.

I like using instant rice as it can be treated just like grain. It is close to the same fermentable addition as grain that I am comfortable entering it as pils malt if my brewing calculator doesn't have it available as a fermentable.

As I have brewed many batches and for many years now I have learned not to sweat the minutiae of recipe formulation, OG/FG and focus on process. If you pay attention to yeast health, ferm temps, sanitization, and ingredient quality, you will make great beer. Cheers!

I brew all grain.

Without getting into it too much, rice is just different here. I don't think I'll be able to find minute rice exactly like in the states, but they do have plain instant rice here (link to a google search of the word in Japanese).

I'm interested in the cooked rice option, too, though. Any more information on that (I'll also do a forum search here in a moment)--but if you have personal experience I'd love to hear about it. I wonder if the instant rice here can be calculated the same as the instant rice in America, sense it's assuredly a different species.

Japanese rice is the best in the world (according to the Japanese anyway, lol), they have import/export restriction and heavy subsidies to protect the industry. Though they have started cultivating their rice in other regions of the world. I've heard primarily in Egypt, oddly enough. The sake brewers here are amazing. I would have no problem getting my hands on sake rice, perhaps I should go the cooked rice route. Just not super excited about introducing yet another variable I don't yet understand (I'm still perfecting my process with my new system and water as I've recently moved).

 

[StonesBally]

Instant rice is different than parboiled rice. Parboiled is boiled in the husk before milling. It is not fully cooked and cooked like regular milled rice. I use it all the time at work. Instant rice is fully cooked and would work in the mash I suppose. Parboiled rice would need to be cooked first.

 

[RCCOLA]

Instant rice is different than parboiled rice. Parboiled is boiled in the husk before milling. It is not fully cooked and cooked like regular milled rice. I use it all the time at work. Instant rice is fully cooked and would work in the mash I suppose. Parboiled rice would need to be cooked first.

Good info. I corrected my post to reflect that. Upon searching the web, parboiled can include being partially cooked after processing to decrease cooking time. My Minute rice brown rice ingredient label states "Precooked parboiled rice"

 

[StonesBally]

Sorry I'm a cook/chef for the last 20+ years, I have way more food knowledge and experience than brewing knowledge. It sometimes comes in handy in th brewing world. I've never made a beer with any sort of rice in it as I don't have the capacity to lager still after 8 years of brewing. Some day...

 

[RCCOLA]

Sorry I'm a cook/chef for the last 20+ years, I have way more food knowledge and experience than brewing knowledge. It sometimes comes in handy in th brewing world. I've never made a beer with any sort of rice in it as I don't have the capacity to lager still after 8 years of brewing. Some day...

Wow, nearly everything I've brewed for ~7yrs has been a lager. Mostly Czech but I do keep an American light lager on tap for AB drinkers. Here's what one looks like with pils, corn starch(yes, I said corn starch), and instant rice.

 

[z-bob]

My next beer will be a cream ale with rice in it (80% pilsner malt, 20% rice, Sorachi Ace hops, German ale yeast.) I bought a bag of broken jasmine rice at the local Asian market, and will simmer that in a gallon of water. Then the rice and any cooking water it down't absorb goes into the mash. Any rice would do, except maybe brown rice.

It's less involved than a regular cereal mash; just need to cook the rice so its starch gels and can be converted by the malt enzymes. The only thing special about Minute Rice is it's already cooked so it saves you a step. HTH

P.S. You weigh the dry rice for the recipe, not the cooked rice, but you knew that already

 

[codybaldwin]

Really great tips here, getting hyped for brew day!

I think I'm going to do a little bit more research on rice varieties here and the starch content, what makes them different, etc. (ie. mochi rice vs sake rice vs sushi rice [all different here]). It'll give me some more Japanese practice, I'll report back after brew day.