Horchata Cream Ale ideas?

[TimpanogosSlim]

A week or so back when I was in salt lake city I stopped by the original site of Epic Brewing and spent over $100 on a box of beers.

And four of them were their new Horchata Cream Ale.

https://www.epicbrewing.com/horchata-cream-ale
As opposed to the horchata beer recipes I could find here that did not contain rice, the rice flavor was very very forward. And I appreciated that a lot.

It's also back-sweetened with lactose—no mention of vanilla on the label.

It was rich and enjoyable. I could see having 5 gallons of it on tap, maybe a little less sweet. Maybe stronger than 5% ABV.

I've brewed with rice before. Years ago I made a brown basmati Kolsch I called Rasenmaher (lawn mower). Pushed the limits of the adjunct capacity of my primary malt, and overshot the predicted brewhouse efficiency per brewtarget. It was pleasant if a bit on the cloudy side.

I figure maybe I hit up the meximart for rice grown in Mexico (I hear it makes a difference in regular horchata?) and maybe push the adjunct to the limit. And get some Mexican cinnamon, which is very different from Saigon aka cassia cinnamon. It's weaker but also doesn't have quite the same flavor profile as the high-test stuff. It's a different tree.

I'm unsure where to guesstimate the cinnamon and lactose quantities, I guess.

 

[pvtpublic]

That sounds great! Doesn't rice at higher levels render more of a sake flavor though? That's been my experience, at least. The lactose would certainly make the beer. I highly recommend looking into white stout recipes and processes in order to achieve a great horchata beer instead of pouring over cream ale recipes. However, I should admit, I'm unfamiliar with the beer you included.
I have to say it though. This is not a cream ale. It's a great idea and I would definitely brew something like this and I would drink it on purpose, like a lot of it, but it's not a cream ale. Cream ale has nothing to do with cream, creaminess, vanilla, or any kind of herbs, spices, additives, etc. A cream ale is essentially an ale version of an American Lager, but with a bit more flavor. Why it's called cream ale is beyond me. When the American lagers exploded in popularity in the 1800s, the ale brewers at the time got left in the dust. In order to compete with such a beer, they mimicked the grain bill and the hop schedule and tried to ferment a clean, well attenuated pale beer with their ale yeasts. And someone decided cream ale was a fitting name for the style. Maybe someone used cream corn instead of flaked maize? I think I'm on to something... *sip*

Edit: rice won't give you much of a flavor, no matter what type you go with

 

[pvtpublic]

I forgot to mention that I would like to help you with the recipe. What is your proposal for the specs?
Also, Blue Moon had a Horchata ale a while back, and I made a concerted attempt at achieving a beer belly with it.

 

[Firstblood614]

I’m gonna have to keep an eye on this thread, horchata beer sounds like a great summertime drink!

 

[TimpanogosSlim]

That sounds great! Doesn't rice at higher levels render more of a sake flavor though? That's been my experience, at least. The lactose would certainly make the beer. I highly recommend looking into white stout recipes and processes in order to achieve a great horchata beer instead of pouring over cream ale recipes. However, I should admit, I'm unfamiliar with the beer you included.
I have to say it though. This is not a cream ale. It's a great idea and I would definitely brew something like this and I would drink it on purpose, like a lot of it, but it's not a cream ale. Cream ale has nothing to do with cream, creaminess, vanilla, or any kind of herbs, spices, additives, etc. A cream ale is essentially an ale version of an American Lager, but with a bit more flavor. Why it's called cream ale is beyond me. When the American lagers exploded in popularity in the 1800s, the ale brewers at the time got left in the dust. In order to compete with such a beer, they mimicked the grain bill and the hop schedule and tried to ferment a clean, well attenuated pale beer with their ale yeasts. And someone decided cream ale was a fitting name for the style. Maybe someone used cream corn instead of flaked maize? I think I'm on to something... *sip*

Edit: rice won't give you much of a flavor, no matter what type you go with

I could certainly taste the basmati in the beer i brewed with it. It was brown tho, so it included the husk.

You have to cook it first to gelatinize the starches for conversion. I didn't have a grain mill at the time and would recommend running it through one to crack the grains first.

Not much experience with a sake-like flavor but i expect that the koji has an impact on the flavor of sake.

I got no opinions on why anything is called a cream ale.

 

[crazyjake19]

I've had Blue Moon's horchata spiced ale that was very good and I'd love to recreate that, but cream ales should be neither creamy nor sweet. Lactose and vanilla do not belong in a cream ale.

 

[pvtpublic]

I could certainly taste the basmati in the beer i brewed with it. It was brown tho, so it included the husk.

You have to cook it first to gelatinize the starches for conversion. I didn't have a grain mill at the time and would recommend running it through one to crack the grains first.

Not much experience with a sake-like flavor but i expect that the koji has an impact on the flavor of sake.

I got no opinions on why anything is called a cream ale.

That's pretty cool that the flavor came out. I've done beers with rice, and no flavor, and I've had guys in my brew club use jasmine and others, also with no apparent flavor. Just a sake like flavor.

I've had Blue Moon's horchata spiced ale that was very good and I'd love to recreate that, but cream ales should be neither creamy nor sweet. Lactose and vanilla do not belong in a cream ale.

I've had too many of those in the past, and if I ever run into them again, I'm sure history will repeat itself...

 

[Jayjay1976]

I married a mail order bride from Indiana; one of the many great features out of the box, she can bake a spectacular Hoosier sugar cream pie. To my palate it has always reminded me of horchata, though it contains no rice, and for some reason I swear I can taste coconut though there is none of that either. The combination of sugar, cream, and cinnamon is really all it takes. I'd suggest looking into whipped cream flavoring, brewers best makes it, and some cinnamon in the boil. A pinch of nutmeg too, it boosts the apparent creaminess and just generally goes really well with these flavors.

 

[43North]

A week or so back when I was in salt lake city I stopped by the original site of Epic Brewing and spent over $100 on a box of beers.

And four of them were their new Horchata Cream Ale.

https://www.epicbrewing.com/horchata-cream-ale
As opposed to the horchata beer recipes I could find here that did not contain rice, the rice flavor was very very forward. And I appreciated that a lot.

It's also back-sweetened with lactose—no mention of vanilla on the label.

It was rich and enjoyable. I could see having 5 gallons of it on tap, maybe a little less sweet. Maybe stronger than 5% ABV.

I've brewed with rice before. Years ago I made a brown basmati Kolsch I called Rasenmaher (lawn mower). Pushed the limits of the adjunct capacity of my primary malt, and overshot the predicted brewhouse efficiency per brewtarget. It was pleasant if a bit on the cloudy side.

I figure maybe I hit up the meximart for rice grown in Mexico (I hear it makes a difference in regular horchata?) and maybe push the adjunct to the limit. And get some Mexican cinnamon, which is very different from Saigon aka cassia cinnamon. It's weaker but also doesn't have quite the same flavor profile as the high-test stuff. It's a different tree.

I'm unsure where to guesstimate the cinnamon and lactose quantities, I guess.

Back in 2022 snake River brewing in Jackson hole Wyoming created a Horchata cream ale. It had a very clean taste, and it
Tasted like it had been backsweetened with lactose. Hence the cream part in the name. And it did reminded me of a smooth, light white stout. I think somebody in this thread had mentioned using a white stout recipe. If rice is involved in the recipe, I will definitely be looking for jasmine rice. I love the foreword, rice, flavor, and aroma that was in a Japanese rice lager I brewed 18 months ago. And to contrast the sweet, I think I’m going to put in some hot red pepper flakes.
Know if somebody smarter than me could come up with a recipe ha ha.

 

[Cgeern]

Last year I made a "Horchata Cream Ale" and loved it. Tincture of 2 cinnamon sticks and 2-3 vanilla beans soaked in 3-4 oz vodka for a several days, dumped in keg.

Had about 10% flaked rice, 3% honey malt, 5% lactose, 4% crystal 15.
About 6% abv.

It was sweet but not too sweet.

.75oz Saaz @60, .5oz Fuggles & .5 Saaz @15 (about 25 IBU total). I really liked the spicy/earthy hop flavor.

Is it a real "Cream Ale," no. But that's the most misleading style name ever. When I make a real cream ale, I tell people it's an "American Lager" so as not to confuse them with the name. Lactose, cinnamon and vanilla are not true to style, but calling it a cream ale makes sense to the people you serve it to, unless they're beer snobs like us.

 

[Witherby]

I look forward to hearing how this progresses. I rarely brew the crazy beers I dream up because I invariably don’t want 5 gallons of x beer, but I love reading about other people’s adventures.

For those of you interested in the history of cream ale (and why the cream part makes perfect sense to me for this beer and why it will for your friends drinking this beer) I recommend these two links:
Could Cream Beer Actually Be Cream Beer’s Ancestor? – A Good Beer Blog

Cream Ale: I Hate Records Revisited… – A Good Beer Blog