Rice Hulls and Mash Thickness

[Rob2010SS]

When using rice hulls, do you incorporate that weight into your calculations when determining how much water to use in the mash? I have not previously, but typically I'm only using 1-3 lbs of rice hulls. However, we're going to be brewing a hefe here soon and it's going to have a crap load of wheat in it and I plan to use a lot more rice hulls in this recipe and was just curious if I should be counting that towards the mash weight.

Second question that just came to mind - how much rice hulls are you usually using? If you have a recipe that is 60% wheat (~20lbs of wheat) how many pounds of rice hulls would you use? I was thinking 10 lbs of rice hulls but not sure if that's overboard.

On my last wheat beer, which was 40% wheat, I only used like 3lbs of rice hulls and still had problems during mash recirculation.

 

[brewswithshoes]

I do BIAB (well really the COFI basket in a brew boss) and usually add 1 to 2 handfuls of rice hulls with wheat recipes. The most I’ve done is about a 30% wheat recipe and did an extra handful of hulls in that one. I don’t recall adjusting the water amount on any of my recipes for them.

3 pounds of rice hulls is A LOT (but maybe my assumption of you doing 5G batches is wrong) A long while back I ordered 15 lbs of rice hulls not realizing how much that truly was. Pic below is one of the three 5 lbs I have and am still working thru from that order. A couple handfuls I use with my wheat containing recipes (5G) hardly puts a dent in these bags.

if you are truly using 3 lbs in your recipes then some water correction may be needed. Something like BrewSmith may be able to reveal this for a large recipe.

 

[day_trippr]

I do not adjust what BS3 calculates for strike and sparge volumes, however I also pre-soak rice hulls and drain them just before layering them on my FB prior to pouring the grain bill on top and underletting the strike. I have been hitting the "volume to the fermentor" on the nose all along so it works well for me.

fwiw, my typical dose is a half-pound of hulls...

Cheers!

 

[brewswithshoes]

I also pre-soak rice hulls and drain them

I like this idea. learn a new tip every day on this forum !!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Presoaking rice hulls is the answer. Get em close to your mash temp too.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I do BIAB (well really the COFI basket in a brew boss) and usually add 1 to 2 handfuls of rice hulls with wheat recipes. The most I’ve done is about a 30% wheat recipe and did an extra handful of hulls in that one. I don’t recall adjusting the water amount on any of my recipes for them.

3 pounds of rice hulls is A LOT (but maybe my assumption of you doing 5G batches is wrong) A long while back I ordered 15 lbs of rice hulls not realizing how much that truly was. Pic below is one of the three 5 lbs I have and am still working thru from that order. A couple handfuls I use with my wheat containing recipes (5G) hardly puts a dent in these bags.

if you are truly using 3 lbs in your recipes then some water correction may be needed. Something like BrewSmith may be able to reveal this for a large recipe.

I'm not doing 5g batches. My batches are 18g post boil and roughly 17g into fermenter.

I agree, 3lbs is a lot but even with 3lbs, I was having issues on my last american wheat with 40% wheat...

I do not adjust what BS3 calculates for strike and sparge volumes, however I also pre-soak rice hulls and drain them just before layering them on my FB prior to pouring the grain bill on top and underletting the strike. I have been hitting the "volume to the fermentor" on the nose all along so it works well for me.

fwiw, my typical dose is a half-pound of hulls...

Cheers!

What are your batch sizes?

Presoaking rice hulls is the answer. Get em close to your mash temp too.

I'm not underletting at the moment. would there by anything wrong with putting the rice hulls in the MT first, transferring strike water, and then doughing in? Would that count as "pre-soaking"?

 

[Qhrumphf]

Dry rice hulls will absorb both heat and water just like grain. If you want to do it that way, they'll impact your temp/thickness and absorption/runoff volume values. Not the end of the world however you choose to account for it.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]What are your batch sizes?[...]

Lol, I should have mentioned that Pre-boil volume is between 13.5 and 14.5 gallons depending on the hop loading (and thus wort absorption losses) for 10 gallons of finished beer into the kegs.

I'm not underletting at the moment. would there by anything wrong with putting the rice hulls in the MT first, transferring strike water, and then doughing in? Would that count as "pre-soaking"?

The idea is to "pre-account" for the water needed to avoid losing strike volume to the hulls, so I would say no. Further, unless you add the volume needed to your strike volume your mash thickness is going to go up. You could certainly do that if you know how much water to add

Cheers!

 

[Qhrumphf]

You could quickly experiment with a small amount of rice hulls to get an idea how they'll impact your mash thickness/temp. I'd assume the mass to temp change factor should be linear but I'm pretty sure the absorption rate is not.

At the same time, since the amount you're adding is small, either just tossing it in without worry, or treating them w/w like malt probably gets you close enough.

But as I said, presoaking them in extra strike water such they don't add any additional absorption and are already close to your mash temp is simple and foolproof. And also helps keep em from just floating on top where they'll do you no good. That's another issue. (I don't underlet either).

Honestly though I'd just rather use betaglucanase. I don't usually have a problem with wheat (even at Hefe percentages). It's the high beta glucan stuff (rye and flaked grains) where I've needed the hulls, and betaglucanase is more effective there. But if your system needs the help, yeah I'd say rice hulls probably a better answer for wheat.

 

[BarryBrews]

however I also pre-soak rice hulls and drain them just before layering them on my FB prior to pouring the grain bill on top and underletting the strike.

I've been promoting something very similar to this idea for while now on HBT. There are several points I'd like to share with you all about rice hulls and underletting your mash.

1. Rice hulls alone make strong rice flavored tea. Whatever ratio of rice hulls you use, make a cup with a similar ratio with mash temperature water and taste it! I purchased rice hulls from 4 different suppliers with the same awful flavor. I steeped, rinsed and dried a large batch for my wheat beers. But as it turns out......

2. The underletting and non-stirring approach to mashing means never having a stuck mash tun! I use a pump non-stop, except for the first 75 minutes of the boil. Seriously, 3 gallons per minute never a slowdown. About a year ago I decided since it was working so well I'd try without rice hulls. Worked just as well without rice hulls! And over the last year I've made almost exclusively NEIPA's with half wheat malt. So why changes things.....

3. Last week I made a low carbohydrate beer (ketosis thing) using just pilsen and pale ale malt. Fancy mash profile, 40 min 145F beta amylase rest and gelatinize the starch, cool mash to 130F for one hour for glucoamylase addition, RIMS heat to 155F over 35 minutes for alpha amylase rest, and cool again to 130F for another 60 minute glucoamylase addition. Enough of that, the process entailed a lot of mash stirring, which as I just said I haven't done in over three years. That right! I had my first stuck mash in over three years. I use a brew bag and false bottom so the problem was quickly resolved, but I had to manipulate the bag several times. You might think it's the lower temperature, but even at 155F the problem persisted. To me this was proof that stirring the mash leads to it getting stuck. My no sparge mash efficiencies are inline with the expected grist to water ratios. And as further proof, I'm repeating this brew exactly the same next month without the stirring. Will update you all.

Think about when you shake up the yeast during the cleaning process and how it settles out in layers. The same type thing happens in the mash tun when stirred. When you don't use a pump, fine particles will settle on the top of the grist which can be carefully scraped off to return the mash flow. With a pump, the blocking layer occurs on the bottom of the grist. Either way, you are better off leaving the grist in the homogeneous state produced during the crushing process. BTW, I premix my grist prior to crushing directly into the mash tun, which eliminates a lot of brew house dust.

 

[loopybrewer]

I do not adjust what BS3 calculates for strike and sparge volumes, however I also pre-soak rice hulls and drain them just before layering them on my FB prior to pouring the grain bill on top and underletting the strike. I have been hitting the "volume to the fermentor" on the nose all along so it works well for me.

fwiw, my typical dose is a half-pound of hulls...

Cheers!

I like this. Definitely trying on my next batch with a decent wheat percentage.

 

[Dland]

If you want to skip the extra step of soaking rice hulls, one can add them into grain bill weight calculation for strike water volume & temp. This can be done w Brewer's Friend, Beer Smith, or whatever method you normally use to calculate strike temps & volumes. After all, mash temp will still be affected unless you match soak water to strike water, seems like extra effort to me.

For what it's worth, I brew with rice hulls regularly since I use a fair amount of rye malt. 1# rice hulls works fine for up to 5# rye malt(maybe even more, but that is ratio I use), in grain bill typically totaling 20#, plus the 1# rice hulls.

 

[goodolarchie]

I set a 0.0lbs addition of rice hulls in BS3 just so I don't forget them, but I don't want it screwing up my grist %'s. I also pre-soak in warm water as I'm milling, then strain the hulls, and add them as I'm mashing in. Otherwise the low density causes them to want to float instead of doing their job.

I don't think I've ever used a full 1lb of rice hulls even in my 24 gallon saisons with wheat, flaked oats, rye, spelt etc. Mash tun is the same false bottom surface area so I'm using good with half a pound (fills up about 80oz of my soaking container before water), this is for a HERMS and I'm recirculating at a rate of about 1.5 gallons per minute to maintain temp.

 

[Qhrumphf]

If you're doing a 30 gallon batch a pound of rice hulls is probably about right. Smaller batch it's probably overkill.