Reversing the effects of a lifetime of drinking

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bwarbiany said:
Can't do a dry fast day personally unless I want to endure caffeine withdrawal headaches.
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I'm caffeine free. After drinking coffee for 50 years, it had zero effects, positive or negative, and I decided that it was a chemical I didn't need. Withdrawal is brutal!! Visiting my mother, I drink her coffee........ no more!! I had a 3 day withdrawal after a week of visiting. I'll carry my Costco Decaf..... the only decaf I've found that's drinkable.

H.W.
 
My body doesn't like dry fasting very well. I was on a 4 day fast this week. I did the first day dry... no problem, then went to a water fast for a day, then a day dry. I walk 2 miles a day, and found it extremely difficult..... normally I step out with alacrity and energy. My body was hurting all over, and energy level was down. Low energy is normal in a dry fast. I broke the fast for a light lunch, and liquids, followed by a light supper, and resumed with a water fast, which I will break tomorrow AM for 3 meals and pizza and beer on free pizza night at the Grand Hotel in Big Timber. I call it the "feeding frenzy". The cook brings out pizzas and customers take a few slices. She employes all her creative energy and comes up with unique and interesting varieties. They have done this for a few months in winter for years, and it makes for a great social gathering. I'll have one beer and a couple slices of pizza. I believe in moderation in all things.... including moderation itself.

Looked at a BMI chart out of curiosity.... seems absurd. It would be brutal to try to achieve that, and maintain it.

H.W.
 
The oldest man in American and the oldest WWII vet just died at 112 years old.
When asked what the secret to life was he said "Whiskey and cigars"

Live until your die
 
Problem I was having is my home brew is getting so good it is hard to stop drinking it. Used to be a 6 pack a day sort when I was buying, but with 10 or 12 kegs going at any given time in cellar, it is hard to stop "tasting" it.

But now I limit myself to a pint or two on work days, and allow for a little more on weekends. 5-6 pints a night not sustainable at my age, (pushing 60).

Since I'm not a gorge eater and I still work outside all week, the weight was not a problem. But I was beginning to wonder about the ole liver before I cut back. Now I have to admit I do feel better than when I was hitting it hard every night.

If anyone ever needs some incentive to throttle back, and have stopped getting hangovers even though they drink a lot, go on line and look at progression from fatty liver to cirrhosis. Worked for me anyway.
 
Never been overweight or underweight.

Not an alcoholic or a caffeine addict.

Like the science of brewing more than drinking.

Not on any special diet. Go to the gym on 1 year cycles and take long walks on off years. (Always sign with 24hr gyms that take cash, like Anytime Fitness, etc...)

Most in my family live to their mid 90's, those who have chosen to smoke mostly to their early 70's.

A good gut flush once a month, with some liver and kidney cleanses and all is well.

Meh, to each their own. May you improve yourself the way you see fit.
 
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day_trippr said:
An annual checkup with full LFT panel might be in order then...
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So they can tell me to never drink again, and it goes on my supposedly private digital medical records I'm are a drinker? I don't think so.

The good news is now that I've throttled back, I can get a mild hangover for just 4 pints! ...and that's a good thing? in context, yeah...

I have an all too thorough annual due to trucker's medical certification anyway.
 
I'm doing well with the fasting. 43 days of cumulative fasting, and I'm down to just under 180 (stable weight) from 202. I'm on a brief "vacation" and eating "keto", due to the need to take some antibiotics. In general the effects have been positive far beyond my weight loss. Mental acuity is greatly enhanced, it has not had a negative effect on my energy level. My typical fast lengths are from 3 to 6 days, and lately, I've done a single meal between fasts...... heavy on meat to kick my digestive system into gear to increase energy burn. The main lesson I've learned is that it is necessary to "change it up" rather than establishing a pattern. If you establish a pattern, weight loss slows down. I change the number of meals between fasts, and length of fasts, throw in some dry fasts (brutal).
Fasting promotes autophagy, which is a process where your body looks for resources because there is nothing coming in. It will break down damaged and defective cells for their resources, cells with genetic damage, even cancer cells, scar tissue, etc. I've had problems with arthritis in my hands and BPH (benign prostatic hyperplasia), not to mention blood pressure, and all of those have greatly improved. I'm sharper and think more clearly.

My target weight is 150 lbs..... which may not be realistic........ I see my program going to 120 days or more (cumulative). I intend to go to the mountains next summer (early july), 50 pounds lighter than last year. I walk two miles every day anyway, and have ordered a weight vest and ankle weights, and when the weather turns, will head out across the hills about 6 miles at least two days a week. I don't live near a gym, but wouldn't use one anyway.. it's not my nature. Exercise is something I've always done outdoors and usually solo.

H.W.
 
Things are headed in the right direction........ I've lost 27 pounds in 57 days of water fasting over a period of 72 days. My blood pressure has dropped from close to 200 (systolic) down to 132 / 89 ..... right about where it should be. I'm feeling better than I have in years, and the flab is melting away noticeably.... 174 lbs (estimated stable weight) (scale weight today 169). At 5'3" (I seem to have lost an inch), this is still almost 30 pounds above what the BMI chart says I should be and the beer belly is stubbornly hanging on, though it is shrinking very slowly..... Somehow I find it difficult to imagine being at 145..... my supposedly ideal weight. There is room to lose more, but 29 pounds!! I would look like a concentration camp victim I suspect. My kitchen is stocked with strange things I have never had before, and I started a small grow chamber to produce greens. I plan to modify my pump house / well house into a far more complete grow chamber, as it is very well insulated and will be easy to get to 75 or so and hold there.... I can't live in that kind of temp. I keep the temps in the house in the mid to 50's to low 60's this time of year..... I've found that I am generally healthier if I let the indoor temps range up and down with the seasons........ Your mileage may vary ;-)

I've decided to start doing the Kratky method of hydroponics, both indoor and outdoor. Production is much higher, for a given space, and growth is faster, and there is no weeding. Seasons here are very short. I gave my hops away when I quit brewing.... moved them across the street to my neighbor's yard. I've decided to order one rhyzome and experiment with growing it using the kratky method.... I never have had much yield using conventional in ground growing.

H.W.
 
haha, careful what you grow, might make you hungrier than before! Srsly though while probably not the best methodology sounds like you are doing great. My problem is when I was skinny, I thought I was fat. I look back at pics of me and go damn, I wish I was that weight again. Then I remember thinking I was fat then. If you dont have that problem, that helps. It would be better to have 3, 4 or 5 very small meals than fast, but with your health improving I would think you are doing great. Love to hear you are exercising too.

As I read your post, it was starting to sound like a skinny fat person. Here in colorado my wife and I blaze by all these twiggy bodies that might look ok in clothes but are useless on a 10 mile up hill hike. My wifes sis is skinny fat. Thin but not in shape for sure. I can only imagine real vitality and health is in weight control, and heart health. Keep up the great work and dont be fooled by weight loss from draining your water table. As a wrestler I know this well. Thats why they made it illegal to jump rope in a steam room wearing trash bags and changing cotton shirts every ten minutes. But we did it anyways.
 
Jayjay1976 said:
What are these gut, liver, and kidney cleanses you speak of? Sounds like something I would like to try.
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My wife did an arbonne cleanse. No matter what you choose research this, there is actually no truth in a cleanse. But sure there is truth in having a colonic. That would be a good option for you as well if this is what you seek. In actual fact, the body is amazing at expelling toxins. The idea that there are all these harmful toxins and some McDonald's fries hanging out in you from years ago hasn't been held up medically. But I welcome any real information from a trusted website saying otherwise. There certainly is truth in cleaning out your colon. Apparently some people are addicted to it.
 
applescrap said:
My wife did an arbonne cleanse. No matter what you choose research this, there is actually no truth in a cleanse. But sure there is truth in having a colonic. That would be a good option for you as well if this is what you seek. In actual fact, the body is amazing at expelling toxins. The idea that there are all these harmful toxins and some McDonald's fries hanging out in you from years ago hasn't been held up medically. But I welcome any real information from a trusted website saying otherwise. There certainly is truth in cleaning out your colon. Apparently some people are addicted to it.
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I do regular self-colonics as a hobby. One time I skipped and the Hawks lost that night to St. Louis so I sure AF ain't skipping that again!! I was more interested in the liver & kidney show.
 
I've passed the half way point now. I'm on day 60 of fasting .......61 days of fasting out of 80 total days.... That is about 76% of the days since early Dec spent fasting. I'm currently half way through day four of a four day fast.
Weight this AM was 166 lbs, down from 202 when I started this program. Blood pressure down into the normal range, down from being in the red.... stage one hypertension. "Real non fasting weight", is probably about 170 - 171. Weight loss seems to be about the predicted 1/2 lb per day over the long term, but there are hills and valleys. I recently blew through a plateau which had been frustrating.
The lesson here is not to get discouraged if you don't see weight loss for awhile....keep going and you will see it again. I'm expecting to continue this to about day 120, looking for a stable weight of 145-150.

H.W.
 
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For those interested in Apple Cider Vinegar.....which is reputed to be good for you, I am making ACV using Belle Saison for a few days followed by pitching kombucha into it. The result looks like it will be phenomenal. It quickly developed a scoby, and is rapidly souring, and the flavor development is amazing, with the more complex array of acids produced by the multiple microbes found in kombucha, instead of the single strain of acetobacter creating only acetic acid, and a monoculture bacteria. The souring will go on for months...... as home made vinegar always does, but the product looks so far like it will be far superior to ordinary ACV like Braggs. More flavor, more beneficial acids and probiotics, etc. This began with frozen concentrate apple cider (no preservatives). (note that a couple of acids are used in frozen concentrate to enhance flavor, they are not preservatives)

H.W.
 
Jayjay1976 said:
What are these gut, liver, and kidney cleanses you speak of? Sounds like something I would like to try.
Click to expand...

I've used colon and liver based "cleanse" products with great success.

Colon: Oxygen based colon flush products
Liver: Milk Thistle Extract - add to a small amount of water and take first thing in the morning.
Kidney: Several products on the market but not sure of the main ingredients

I've noticed a marked difference with the colon and liver "cleanses" but haven't tried any kidney cleanse products.

Make sure to take a probiotic in addition if using the colon flush products.

Not affiliated or promoting their products but these are the ones I've tried (Global Healing).

I've also found chromium picolinate to be a useful supplement.

Also a regimented HGH supplementation on a serious diet and exercise program can work wonders. (Not talking about body building but rather testosterone increase to average levels.)

Owly055 said:
For those interested in Apple Cider Vinegar.....which is reputed to be good for you, I am making ACV using Belle Saison for a few days followed by pitching kombucha into it. The result looks like it will be phenomenal. It quickly developed a scoby, and is rapidly souring, and the flavor development is amazing, with the more complex array of acids produced by the multiple microbes found in kombucha, instead of the single strain of acetobacter creating only acetic acid, and a monoculture bacteria. The souring will go on for months...... as home made vinegar always does, but the product looks so far like it will be far superior to ordinary ACV like Braggs. More flavor, more beneficial acids and probiotics, etc. This began with frozen concentrate apple cider (no preservatives). (note that a couple of acids are used in frozen concentrate to enhance flavor, they are not preservatives)

H.W.
Click to expand...

Have been using the Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar for a while now but it would be interesting to try homemade version.

Owly055 said:
I've passed the half way point now. I'm on day 60 of fasting .......61 days of fasting out of 80 total days.... That is about 76% of the days since early Dec spent fasting. I'm currently half way through day four of a four day fast.
Weight this AM was 166 lbs, down from 202 when I started this program. Blood pressure down into the normal range, down from being in the red.... stage one hypertension. "Real non fasting weight", is probably about 170 - 171. Weight loss seems to be about the predicted 1/2 lb per day over the long term, but there are hills and valleys. I recently blew through a plateau which had been frustrating.
The lesson here is not to get discouraged if you don't see weight loss for awhile....keep going and you will see it again. I'm expecting to continue this to about day 120, looking for a stable weight of 145-150.

H.W.
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Wow, it sounds like you really needed to get 'er done and that's just what you're doing. Congrats. I don't currently have any known health issues but you never know what life throws your way.
 
Haven't looked at this thread in a while. I am lucky to be one of those people who have little or no problem maintaining a normal weight my BMI is around 23. For my liver, I take Milk thistle every morning, and it keeps my triglycerides in check. It seems to work for me. I have a blood test about every 3 months, and my liver panel is always in the normal range (as long as I'm taking milk thistle, that is). Here's what I take: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-milk-thistle-dandelion-yellow-dock-120-caps-SW1707
 
Just an update..... I'm down to 160 lbs (approx, as I'm fasting enough that it's difficult to know what my "stable" weight is) now from a beginning weight of 202. I'm on fasting day 78 out of a total of 109 days since I began my "program". Blood pressure is no longer a concern, as I'm well within a reasonable range for my age (63.5). Yesterday was an eating day, at the end of a 4 day fast, today is a fasting day at the beginning of another 3 or 4 day fast. I'm beginning this fast with a dry fasting day (no liquids for 24 - 30 hours). I battled with a plateau around 170 for a couple of weeks, and just blew through that recently. I'm still well above my ideal BMI weight of 140-150..... but it's finally looking to be within reach.

I anticipate that short fasts will become a permanent part of my lifestyle.... probably 20 hour fasts to 2 day fasts to maintain the weight where I want it. "intermittent fasting".

H.W.
 
I grew up in the era where we were bombarded with the need for dietary iron supplements.
Considering what medicine now knows, the contrast is fairly stunning.
If anything everyone should be on uber-low iron diets...

Cheers - and stay well!
 
EVERYTHING in moderation! 3 simple words to live by.

A few years ago I was sitting on my porch having a smoke and my morning coffee. A crusty old lady that rented an apartment down the street came up my side walk to my porch and proceeded to tell me that "those things will kill you" in a matter of fact voice with all the piety of a woman from the temperance movement that would outlaw all sex but that which is necessary for procreation. My simple reply was "I like peace and quiet while I'm having my coffee in the morning and trespassing on other people's property will kill you a lot faster. I plan on enjoying every moment of the short life I am destined to have and if I get lucky I will die befor my lovely wife has to change my diapers or I have no idea who she is, so please don't bother me again." She never walked her dog past my house again.
 
I accident pressed the post button before I made my point, sorry about that.

The point is life is short, enjoy every moment you have with those that you cherish. You never know when life will end, you could be butting in to someone else's business or crossing the street. As long as you are happy with the life you have and those around you I say live it like it is the only day you will ever have. My family has a history of long life (90's) but having Alzheimer's and then nursing homes for years .... I plan on kicking, screaming and dancing with the wife until the day I forget who she is and taking the short bus to the crematorium the next day.
 
I'm on the Max Stout diet:

1. I eat the same stuff I always did, just in smaller portions. No more second helpings. Stop after 2 slices of pizza instead of 4, bring home leftovers at restaurants rather than scarfing down their oversized servings, etc.
2. One meal is much smaller than the other two--no more three full meals. Full breakfast? Then light snack for lunch. Or vice-versa.
3. I get a lot more exercise. Not even a gym rat, I just walk a few miles each day, take the stairs intead of the elevator, etc.
4. No more "boredom snacking." Don't even keep chips, cookies, etc., in the house anymore.
5. No more session drinking--two drinks tops at one sitting. Except in special circumstances once in a while.

I've dropped 21 lbs since January and went from a 38" to 36" in waist size. Would like to lose 10 more pounds, then maintain that +/- 5 lbs.
 
IF - Intermittent fasting is my main weight control method. Years ago it would have been inconceivable to go without breakfast and then to skip my 10:00 snack of almonds. Now it's now problem to wait until noon to eat.
They key is to be very moderate with the amount of flour and sugar you eat - and beer. This allows you to be 'fat-adapted' which enables your body to burn its own fuel. And you have to be willing to tough it out for a while as your body resets its clock. If you eat at 7:30 am every day, it gets programmed to release a hormone called grehlin that signals hunger at about that time.
 
Carp, if skipping breakfast works for you, more power to you. To me though, skipping breakfast seems counterproductive. Breakfast provides me the nutrition for my energy for the day, plus protein, choline, B vitamins, and more. Skipping or skimping on dinner is better, for me, anyway. My after dinner activities are fewer and require less energy. Smaller dinners give my digestive system a break. I am less likely to wake up in the middle of the night with acid indigestion or other such problems. I don't do well eating fewer meals, either. BTW, if you continually go longer without eating, your body can learn to store fat to compensate.
 
okiedog said:
Carp, if skipping breakfast works for you, more power to you. To me though, skipping breakfast seems counterproductive. Breakfast provides me the nutrition for my energy for the day, plus protein, choline, B vitamins, and more. Skipping or skimping on dinner is better, for me, anyway. My after dinner activities are fewer and require less energy. Smaller dinners give my digestive system a break. I am less likely to wake up in the middle of the night with acid indigestion or other such problems. I don't do well eating fewer meals, either. BTW, if you continually go longer without eating, your body can learn to store fat to compensate.
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Technically your not skipping breakfast, but condensing the amount of time you have to eat your daily caloric need/want from say 16hrs to 12hrs or less. Instead of slowing your metabolism down, its designed to have your body use it’s fat stores as a source of fuel until an external source is used. I’ve found it works best if your already fat adapted.
Several friends who have taken to fasting periods have reported more stable blood sugars throughout the day as well.
Obviously the main thing is whatever works well for you.
 
Agreed. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for all. I was an Oklahoma farm boy. We got up early, fed the chickens and milked the cows. Then we ate a hearty breakfast. We raised or grew most of our own food. Our 3 meals for the day were: breakfast, dinner and supper. Supper was a light, easy to digest meal. That is not your typical American meal arrangement, but is not so uncommon in that region of the country (Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas). I think it's great that people are doing what they can to keep themselves healthy.
 
Yes I’m here to awake an older thread! I’d love to hear an update as I’ve been following this closely. I started intermittent fasting last week and have been loving how I feel!
 
Just an update. I've logged 111 total fasting days, mostly 3 to 4 day fasts, all water fasts I'm down to my first target, 50 lbs down, with 7 pounds to my ultimate target, which I'm pursuing at a more leisurely pace. I've wrestled my way through several plateaus, and learned quite a few things about myself. I went through one scary spell of vertigo, caused by I don't know what. Lasted over a week, and made functioning difficult. It was not due to dehydration, and I reverted to eating until it passed........ I'd been taking Moringa powder at the time, and attribute it to a reaction to that.......rightly or wrongly........ I stopped using it right away (for arthritis).

Several weeks ago I went on an "intermittent fasting" routine where I skip 3 meals and eat one. I wanted longer fasting periods than the typical one meal a day people do, and I wanted to rotate meals instead of always the same time of day. Until recently my progress seemed to be stalled with that.

The challenge is the fact that my metabolism is down due to the fasting.... as with any sort of caloric reduction. Your body goes into survival mode, and tries to maintain or recover it's reserves. A fundamental survival strategy you have no control of. Since the beginning of time, an organism that is not winning (gaining) is losing.. stasis is not a natural or sustained situation. People who lose weight tend to gain it back fairly quickly, and it not necessarily due to reverting to bad habits, it's as much about your body wanting to return to "normal". That means that my eating habits / caloric intake will have to adjust to where my metabolism is. As a result of fasting, I cannot revert to eating "normally", or what would have been normal to maintain my previous weight. I have had to come to terms with the fact that I simply cannot drink more than one or two beers a week, and consuming any alcohol at home simply does not work. My home brewing days are over unfortunately, as I still love beer, and enjoyed brewing.... amazingly for nearly 50 years, more than that if you count making applejack using a washtub and baseball bat and pillowcase and bread yeast when I was 12 ;-)

This was not and is not simply about weight loss, it's about general health, and longevity, and the changes that I have wrought on my body as a result are all positive, some anticipated, and others not......... I feel better all around as a result, and I feel especially good when I look at the size of my grocery bill ;-)

If I neglected to this link before it is for a Utube video about fasting, mainly dealing with the work of one Russian doctor from the Soviet era, and a clinic that was established along the shores of Lake Baikal as a result. This was adopted in Europe, and especially Germany, and used to treat numerous conditions. It all stemmed from a doctor allowing a psychiatric patient who was not eating to just not eat, instead of force feeding as was usual. The results were so striking that he continued experimenting, including prescribing fasting, and discovered many physical benefits along with the psychiatric benefits. They do closely monitored clinical fasting, typically for stretches of 2-3 weeks taking vital signs, and blood and urine tests. In the US, a chance discovery with mice, fasting, and chemo, led to information escaping "into the wild", with the result that patients who are getting chemotherapy sometimes fast for several days prior, which entirely eliminates the negative effects........ it's all pretty exciting. The Utube is almost an hour long, but worth watching start to finish.

H.W.
 
Owly055 said:
At 63, I've more or less quit drinking..... one or two social beers a week........ But I carry the effects of a lifetime of drinking.....though not to anything most folks would call "excess". My blood pressure is in the danger zone, ..... per my own measurement..... I refuse to go to doctors, and I am overweight. At 5'6", I was weighing in at 202 lbs, which is about 22 pounds higher than I was for many years. This is largely due to brewing and drinking beer, but I also love high carb foods.

Two weeks into my self designed program, I'm down to 193.8 stable. I've been intermittent fasting, and consuming virtually no carbs. I'm using something resembling a Keto diet. The fasts have been multi day mostly, though the last one was 24 hours. Tonight after two days of eating "normally", I will go on a fast that I hope to last Friday Night through Wednesday night of next week.

Interestingly, I find fasting mostly easy.... I have little difficulty with hunger, it's more a matter of the habit of eating. It's interesting to note that my main problem is thermal. I'm more sensitive to cold.

The objective here is not specifically weight loss, but fat removal.... belly fat, and liver fat. The liver is a very strong organ that will regenerate far more quickly than other organs in the body, only the lining of the intestines regenerates more rapidly.

These fasts are water fasts, with only vitamins. I break them with a cup of warm bone broth, followed by some kombucha (home brewed), and a kefir (also home brewed) based smoothie......... to regenerate my intestinal flora.

This is an extremely aggressive program......... It's life or death as far as I'm concerned. While I'm in good shape by most standards.... I'm not in good enough shape to satisfy myself. I have walked 2 miles a day for many years..... on my own trail through the woods to the post office. Last summer I took several long hikes in the mountains of Montana ranging from 15 to 20 miles in a day, climbing high in to the mountains, typically about 3000 to 4000 feet of elevation gain. I don't push myself..... but I keep going. I've always been like that. Not the fastest guy, but I'm still going when others have quit.

My longevity matters to me more than it once did, as I increasingly realize how much I want to do yet....

H.W.
Click to expand...

You're on the right track with the exercise regimen, though I caution against fasting. It plays hell with your metabolism and can cause more weight gain in the long run as your body's natural response is to assume starvation and reduce metabolism in a bid to conserve energy.

I highly recommend adopting a diet that includes high amounts of beans and lentils. Also, eat breakfast, and choose oatmeal more often than not. It strips cholesterol from your system, regulates digestion, and keeps you feeling full longer while providing slow-burning energy to keep you going. And don't forget fermented foods like sauerkraut! You will not look back.
 

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