Rehydrating dry yeast

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kl Roosevelt brewer

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I haven't brewed any extract beer recipes except for only one years and years ago. I pretty much have been a Mead and cider maker and trying something new with Maple wine using just pure maple syrup and that seems to be going okay. But today I ordered the dead ringer IPA malt extract kit with specialty grains from Northern Brewer and it comes with the dry yeast us 05. Can anybody give me pointers on how to use this yeast? Do I hydrated the same way I do with Mead using Go Firm? What is the protocol
 
Yeah I found the webpage online and phone number and was going to give them a call tomorrow and ask some questions I was just hoping somebody here has used The Malt extract kit before with the dry yeast and can give me some pointers
 
They say that the package comes with 5 oz of priming sugar. Instead of adding it to the bottling bucket why can't I just put it in the bottom of my keg and fill my keg up and then let it carbonate
 
I have pitched that yeast dry right out of the packet and I have also pitched it rehydrated and both batches turned out great. When I rehydrate I boil 1 cup of water and then put it and a spoon in a jar and cover with foil to let it cool. Once the water is cooled down to between 75-80 degrees I sprinkle the yeast on top recover and let sit for 15 min. Then I stir it up gently and let sit for another 15 min. After that I give it a light stir and then pitch.
 
kl Roosevelt brewer said:
I haven't brewed any extract beer recipes except for only one years and years ago. I pretty much have been a Mead and cider maker and trying something new with Maple wine using just pure maple syrup and that seems to be going okay. But today I ordered the dead ringer IPA malt extract kit with specialty grains from Northern Brewer and it comes with the dry yeast us 05. Can anybody give me pointers on how to use this yeast? Do I hydrated the same way I do with Mead using Go Firm? What is the protocol
Click to expand...

you can just boil up some water and let it chill to room temp-80F and then sprinkle the yeast on top. Go Ferm might be beneficial, but is not needed. Let rest 15 mins and then stir 15 mins and finally add to the wort. if the wort is a lot cooler than the yeast (10F or more) they recommend adding some wort to chill down the yeast slowly. a lot of people just sprinkle the yeast on the beer and get good results though. you just wind up effectively pitching less yeast as more of them die when you do that.
 
Here are the rehydration instructions from Fermentis (Nov 2016 Tech Data Sheet):

REHYDRATION INSTRUCTIONS:
Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 25 to 29°C (77°F to 84°F).
Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes.
Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

The "Gently stir for 30 minutes" has always boggled my mind. 30 minutes! Are they serious?
An undated bulletin I downloaded in 2013 has the exact same language.

When using dry yeast I always follow John Palmer's instructions from How to Brew:
After sprinkling onto the water surface and the first 15 minute rest period, stir it up gently until the suspension is homogenous, about 10-20 seconds.
Cover it back up, let sit for another 15 minutes to complete rehydration (a creamy yeast layer forms on the bottom).
Stir or swirl up, temper the yeast slurry if necessary, then pitch into aerated/oxygenated wort.

Did they mean to say 30 seconds instead of 30 minutes and forgot the rest? Lost in translation?
 
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What's the point of stirring or not stirring? Some instructions are adamant about not stirring for certain times during the process.
Then there's a whole debate about whether it's even beneficial -- much less necessary -- to rehydrate.

I think it's pretty hard to screw up as long as you don't pitch too hot.
 
RPh_Guy said:
I think it's pretty hard to screw up as long as you don't pitch too hot.
Click to expand...

I have learned that this yeast is especially forgiving, even to pitching too hot. My first batch of pale ale I pitched this yeast dry when my wort was 84 degrees, the beer still turned out great.
 
Bamos6928 said:
I have learned that this yeast is especially forgiving, even to pitching too hot. My first batch of pale ale I pitched this yeast dry when my wort was 84 degrees, the beer still turned out great.
Click to expand...
Yeah warm is fine, but not hot. I can say from experience pitching at 170°F doesn't work so well ;)
LOL don't ask.
 
RPh_Guy said:
What's the point of stirring or not stirring? Some instructions are adamant about not stirring for certain times during the process.
Then there's a whole debate about whether it's even beneficial -- much less necessary -- to rehydrate.

I think it's pretty hard to screw up as long as you don't pitch too hot.
Click to expand...

Don't stir directly after sprinkling the yeast onto the rehydration water's surface. Let it do it's "thing" for 15-30 minutes. Then stir gently, followed by another 15 minute rest. I then stir/swirl up the slurry so it can be poured.

Fermentis (Safale) now has their E2U (Easy to Use) signature on many of their yeasts. They claim for those yeasts rehydration is not necessary, as they've always claimed anyway, it's just a new slogan to make it (look) easier to use, removing potential barriers for the beginning brewer, so they buy their yeasts and not a competitor's.

I still think proper yeast rehydration yields a higher cell count for a better, more complete fermentation, reducing potential problems later. Especially when things stack up against it such as high gravity, cooler ferm temps, lack of, or sparse oxygenation, etc.
 
IMO the yeast are going to have to rehydrate one way or the other. Not sure why making a starter for liquid yeast is readily accepted but rehydrating dry yeast is hotly debated. It’s recommended, it’s easy, why not?
 
kl Roosevelt brewer said:
They say that the package comes with 5 oz of priming sugar. Instead of adding it to the bottling bucket why can't I just put it in the bottom of my keg and fill my keg up and then let it carbonate
Click to expand...

I don't keg, so pardon me if this is way off, but why would you need to add sugar to the keg to carbonate? Isn't the whole purpose of a keg to let CO2 carb the beer for you?
 
gerg_burglar said:
I don't keg, so pardon me if this is way off, but why would you need to add sugar to the keg to carbonate? Isn't the whole purpose of a keg to let CO2 carb the beer for you?
Click to expand...

some of us prime our kegs or cap them with a few points left to carbonate naturally. this allows the yeast to remove more oxygen from the beer (my main goal) and saves on CO2 costs (minimal but real.)
 
brewbama said:
IMO the yeast are going to have to rehydrate one way or the other. Not sure why making a starter for liquid yeast is readily accepted but rehydrating dry yeast is hotly debated. It’s recommended, it’s easy, why not?
Click to expand...

i know from experience of many brews that if you are at the end of a long brew day or had a brewday/party and you just want to be done that you can make great beer by dumping in the yeast and shaking right away. probably not a great habit, but it seems to work very well at least on "low to normal" gravity beers. it really doesn't take much effort to rehydrate though. i think if you just boiled up some water and let it cool overnight and then threw the yeast into that for 15 minutes, shook and added to the wort right away, you'd probably be much better on yeast count than just dumping into wort and it only takes an extra 15 minute wait or so.

i always thought this was an interesting experiment - not sure if there are holes in the methodology or not - I'm not a microbiologist type:

http://seanterrill.com/2011/04/01/dry-yeast-viability/
 
I read a recent article that says that stirring the yeast is really bad. But I find that after 15 minutes there is still dry yeast across the top of the water. So I gently stir it up until all the yeast is wet. I have also just sprinkled the yeast on top of the wort in the carboy. It is said that the harsh environment will kill up to half the yeast cells, but I didn't notice much difference. No side by side though.
 
I've brewed Dead Ringer.
In this particular instance I go with simple: sprinkle it in dry at proper temperature which is on the cool side for me.
When I did rehydrate it always bothered me that some of the slurry would remain clinging to the measuring cup I used. I also justified the simple option in that it provided one less possible source of infection.
 
IslandLizard said:
I still think proper yeast rehydration yields a higher cell count for a better, more complete fermentation, reducing potential problems later. Especially when things stack up against it such as high gravity, cooler ferm temps, lack of, or sparse oxygenation, etc.
Click to expand...

Is there a list of specific problems (off flavors, ...) that I should be looking for if I continue to not rehydrate dry yeast?
 
IN ONE CORNER.... We have the SPRINKLERS! They make beer, not yeast and it tastes great! Heck, even the packet made by the manufacturer says to sprinkle. Brulosophy results don't lie. Feeling guilty about killing half? Just pitch 2 packets!

And IN THE OTHER CORNER.... The REHYDRATORS! It's so easy, why even think about skipping it? Killing half the yeast is murder! Cell counts don't lie. Conventional wisdom had worked for a long time and we never have problems fermenting!

In the THIRD CORNER... People who only use liquid yeast because dry yeast is lame. Dr. White says dry yeast has less flavor and he wouldn't lie to us. They're still not convinced rehydration (either in water or wort) doesn't deplete the yeast's nutrient and oxygen stores before they even get started.

Let's keep this a clean fight...
Round Two! Ding!
 
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I guess maybe I should have just requested a double portion of the dry yeast when I ordered the dead ringer IPA
 
RPh_Guy said:
IN ONE CORNER.... We have the SPRINKLERS! They make beer, not yeast and it tastes great! Heck, even the packet made by the manufacturer says to sprinkle. Brulosophy results don't lie. Feeling guilty about killing half? Just pitch 2 packets!
Click to expand...

Not all yeast says to sprinkle on the pack. I have a pack of Nottingham and it has rehydration instructions on the pack. If you go to the Fermentis website and download the spec sheet it has rehydration instructions there, and no mention of just sprinkling on the wort.

https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/SafAle-US-05.pdf

I do all the different methods. But I believe in proper pitch rates gives my beer the best chance to be great rather than good so I rehydrate dry yeast and make starters with liquid yeast.
 
Yeast run the brewery. Treat them right and they will reward you.
 
The Tips and Tricks section of the Fermentis website https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Brochure_Tips_and_Tricks_GB_web_planche-bd.pdf has some info that I haven't seen before, including this:
"— TEMPERATURE MONITORING - Rehydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream by sprinkling it in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort. - Gently stir and leave for 30 minutes. - Finally, pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel. The rehydration step is done in a vessel outside the fermenter. The objective is to allow the yeast to recover all its functionalities before pitching."

That simplifies the procedure by eliminating the 30 minute stir time. But the individual instructions for US-05 still call for the 30 minute stir. It seems contradictory. I imagine very few home brewers stir for 30 minutes.
 
kh54s10 said:
Not all yeast says to sprinkle on the pack. I have a pack of Nottingham and it has rehydration instructions on the pack. If you go to the Fermentis website and download the spec sheet it has rehydration instructions there, and no mention of just sprinkling on the wort.

https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/SafAle-US-05.pdf

I do all the different methods. But I believe in proper pitch rates gives my beer the best chance to be great rather than good so I rehydrate dry yeast and make starters with liquid yeast.
Click to expand...

Here's what I see when I read the document:

REHYDRATION INSTRUCTIONS:
Sprinkle the yeast in minimum 10 times its weight of sterile water or wort at 25 to 29°C (77°F to 84°F). Leave to rest 15 to 30 minutes. Gently stir for 30 minutes, and pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

Alternatively, pitch the yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20°C (68°F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes, then mix the wort using aeration or by wort addition
 
I had to make a trip out of the mountains today to go to the doctor so I stopped at but local homebrew shop and bought me extra us 05 yeast so I can double pitch
 
I'm going to rat myself out.
It seems my preference is evolving toward liquid yeasts simply because of variety. The last dry strain was a pitch of 32/70 and the beer didn't turn out well from start to finish, so it's more than likely just bias. SO-5 has worked well in the past on simple cider and beer, but I found myself buying WLP-001 to compare. The German-styled hefeweizen yeasts I like are practically non-existent in dry form, so there's that, too.
I've been wanting to try the S-189 yeast for a Pilsner-styled beer. It seems a great fit for that sort of brew ... then again, my local brewshop carries the Budvar strain as a liquid yeast.

:confused: <pulls hair>
 
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Lefou said:
I'm going to rat myself out.
It seems my preference is evolving toward liquid yeasts simply because of variety. The last dry strain was a pitch of 32/70 and the beer didn't turn out well from start to finish, so it's more than likely just bias. SO-5 has worked well in the past on simple cider and beer, but I found myself buying WLP-001 to compare. The German-styled hefeweizen yeasts I like are practically non-existent in dry form, so there's that, too.
I've been wanting to try the S-189 yeast for a Pilsner-styled beer. It seems a great fit for that sort of brew ... then again, my local brewshop carries the Budvar strain as a liquid yeast.

:confused: <pulls hair>
Click to expand...

the w-34/70 has always been an awesome yeast to my taste. that's my favorite dry strain by far. us-05 is a good standby if you like its bitter, dry character. i could leave all of the rest of the dry yeasts and never feel regret. i like the diversity of liquid yeasts too. i build up a double starter and save half in a sterile plastic lab bottle for next time. it's very cost effective that way and gives an amazing array of flavors.
 
kl Roosevelt brewer said:
I had to make a trip out of the mountains today to go to the doctor so I stopped at but local homebrew shop and bought me extra us 05 yeast so I can double pitch
Click to expand...

what is this, little brewery on the prairie? ma and pa took the wagon to town to see the doc. stopped for provisions on the way home. we're all stocked up for the next 3 months.
 
ncbrewer said:
https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Brochure_Tips_and_Tricks_GB_web_planche-bd.pdf
Click to expand...

This is one of the better overview documents I've seen on yeast.

The pitching options listed here appear to remain consistent with the data sheets for the the individual strains:

" — WATER OR WORT?
Fermentis yeast can be rehydrated with sterile water or sterile wort,
but in both cases, sterility of the rehydration environment is fundamental"

Has dry yeast, as a manufactured product, has gotten better over the last 5-10 years?
 
ncbrewer said:
The Tips and Tricks section of the Fermentis website https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Brochure_Tips_and_Tricks_GB_web_planche-bd.pdf has some info that I haven't seen before [...]

That simplifies the procedure by eliminating the 30 minute stir time. But the individual instructions for US-05 still call for the 30 minute stir. It seems contradictory. I imagine very few home brewers stir for 30 minutes.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link!
I have never seen that brochure or even some of its essential parts before.

Their website is not especially intuitive, and as you said, contains contradictory information and instructions. Or should that rather be "incomplete information and instructions?"

For example, in this bulletin they don't mention anywhere the temperature between the rehydrated yeast slurry and the wort to be within 10°F (or better within 5°F) when pitching. There's not a word about wort aeration either.

This is the first time I see them mention chlorinated water will kill the [rehydrating] yeast. Although, IIRC, Chris White's book "Yeast" makes note of it.

I don't think ANY homebrewer will stir that rehydrating slurry for 30 minutes unless he/she uses a stir plate. And that may not be good either.
 
BrewnWKopperKat said:
With any kit (or recipe) I brew it "as is" the first time. NB also offers customer support with their kits - so they would be a good resource.
Click to expand...

I would brew the kit any way I'd see fit, and totally ignore any of their instructions that mention the use of a secondary. Leave it in the primary until you're ready to bottle or keg it.
Also their fermentation "time table" is ultra conservative, especially when applied to hoppy beers.

Customer support? I wouldn't take their word for truth either. The advice given here, especially from those who have been brewing for years, is so much better and up to date.

Why isn't there a hop stand in that Dead Ringer? It's 2018 already!
 
kh54s10 said:
I read a recent article that says that stirring the yeast is really bad. But I find that after 15 minutes there is still dry yeast across the top of the water. So I gently stir it up until all the yeast is wet. [...]
Click to expand...

Do you happen to have a link to that article?

I can understand stirring at the wrong time would indeed not be good. Perhaps because at critical times their cell walls are not up to it. Possibly shear stress?
Or one may incorporate oxygen while stirring, and that may harm the yeast at that point without having any sugars around to consume.
They're very fragile creatures, especially during the rehydration process. That sketch of a yeast's cell wall, before and after rehydration, tells stories. See how wrinkled it is when dried?

Refreezing or refrigerating an open brick or partially used pouch is not recommended either. If you do, you need to use them within a few days or discard after that period. Something bad must happens to them. Probably moisture related. I'm sure they've done the research, it's their business.
 
Lefou said:
I'm going to rat myself out.
It seems my preference is evolving toward liquid yeasts simply because of variety. The last dry strain was a pitch of 32/70 and the beer didn't turn out well from start to finish, so it's more than likely just bias. SO-5 has worked well in the past on simple cider and beer, but I found myself buying WLP-001 to compare. The German-styled hefeweizen yeasts I like are practically non-existent in dry form, so there's that, too.
I've been wanting to try the S-189 yeast for a Pilsner-styled beer. It seems a great fit for that sort of brew ... then again, my local brewshop carries the Budvar strain as a liquid yeast.

:confused: <pulls hair>
Click to expand...

Leave your hair, and stick to that Budvar. It makes an incredible Pilsner!

I read somewhere lately that dry Pilsner/Lager yeasts aren't quite Pilsner/Lager yeasts... Something to do with them no being able to survive the drying or rehydration process, IIRC.
 
IslandLizard said:
I would brew the kit any way I'd see fit ...
Click to expand...

That approach works for a lot of people.

In my experience, those who I've seen start brewing by following the kit instructions have (knock on wood) always had a good initial experience. Those who decided to customize almost always had a good initial experience. So I'm willing to trust the kit manufacturers for that good initial brewing experience, then help brewers customize their processes as time goes on.
 
BrewnWKopperKat said:
[...] In my experience, those who I've seen start brewing by following the kit instructions have (knock on wood) always had a good initial experience. [...] So I'm willing to trust the kit manufacturers for that good initial brewing experience, then help brewers customize their processes as time goes on.
Click to expand...

Kit instructions are horrendously outdated, and sometimes plain wrong.
(Beer) kits are made for convenience, almost foolproof if you can follow directions. But they may not give you the best possible beer from it.

If someone buys a kit and brews it as is, that's fine, doesn't know any better. It will be beer, but no real Ringer 6-8 weeks later when he or she opens the first bottle.

But if that brewer has been on HBT, looked around, posted a thread on that kit, and is now better informed, why shouldn't he or she apply some of that wisdom right there?

The brewer is still adhering to the kit, mostly, with any or all of the following optional tweaks:
  • just adds only half the extract to the 3 gallons of steeping water at the beginning of the (partial) boil,
  • the balance of extract added at flameout,
  • jostles some hop additions around and adds a couple ounces,
  • adds a 30' hop stand at a lowered temperature, rather than outdated 30, 15, 10, 5, and/or 0 minutes hop additions,
  • rehydrates the dry yeast before pitching,
  • and possibly aerates the wort a bit.
  • Then sticks the fermentor in a nice cool spot, ferm fridge, or in a water filled tote,
  • skips the whole 2-4 weeks of secondary,
  • dry hops in the primary fermentor, 2 weeks after pitching or when FG is on target and stable,
  • cold crashes if possible,
  • packages 5 days after dry hopping rather than after 2 weeks,
  • and limits exposure to air as much as possible during the whole process
I don't think we should deny the brewer that right by not telling him or her in advance.
 

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