Red Rye Saison, recipe critique and grain question

[KyleWolf]

Hey everyone,

So I am putting together a recipe for a Red Rye Saison (my first Saison). I am wanting something with more a reddish tint without darkening too much. Just basically moving away from the orange color normally associated with a Saison. This is going to be a Rye Saison that I am going to work to actually get relatively clear (whirlfloc, cold-crash). There is a grain in my recipe I have never used nor heard much about and I would like some opinions (Weyermann Cara Red ®, http://www.brewmasterswarehouse.com/product/0101499/weyermann-cara-red-). I am somewhat new to some of the european hops so feel free to give your 2 cents on that as well.

This is for a 5.5 gal batch.

Ingredient Name Amount
Briess Pilsner 9 lbs, 0 oz
Weyermann Rye Malt 1 lbs, 0 oz
Gambrinus Dark Munich 1 lbs, 0 oz
Weyermann Cara Red ® 0 lbs, 8 oz
Aromatic 0 lbs, 8 oz
Flaked Rye 0 lbs, 8 oz
Honey 1 lbs, 0oz (added to either boil, or after fermentation slows)

Target, German Pellets .5 oz @ 60 mins
Tettnang, German Pellets 1 oz @ 10 mins
Saaz, US Pellets 1 oz @ 10 mins
Wyeast Labs Belgian Saison 3724

SG 1.066, OG, hoping for 1.008 or under.

Mashing at 147-148.

Please let me know what you think. I hope to brew this before mid-July so I have it ready before the summer heat subsides for the ramp temps.

 

[avidhomebrewer]

I've never used the CaraRed that you mention, but I have used other Weyermann malts and they are very high quality malts. The color of the malt (carared) looks about right. I think your recipe looks good. As far as your hops, you have a good schedule there. I've used the 3724 before and I liked the results.

 

[weirdboy]

I actually made a very, very similar recipe except I used Caramunich instead of Carared, sugar instead of honey, and I think the hops were a little different...but overall pretty close to what you have there.

For what it's worth I got something like 88% attenuation, and the finish was very dry.

It actually came out pretty much like I expected, but it turned out that even though I hit all my targets and got the beer I was planning for, I wasn't happy with the beer. Other people seemed to like it, but I just didn't really like the interaction between the Belgian yeast and the spiciness of the rye.

 

[KyleWolf]

It actually came out pretty much like I expected, but it turned out that even though I hit all my targets and got the beer I was planning for, I wasn't happy with the beer. Other people seemed to like it, but I just didn't really like the interaction between the Belgian yeast and the spiciness of the rye.

What yeast did you use? I was told that the saison yeast naturally adds a lot of that spiciness/orange peel/peppercorn feel experienced in a saison. I was hoping the rye would accentuate the yeast's natural spiciness and also lend a hand to the red color. My only real fear is that Cara Red is going to be SO red that it will completely overpower the color and give a very "hokey" look.

Also, I would like to know with a rye beer like this, would everyone recommend the use of rice hulls like one would use for a wheat beer?

 

[weirdboy]

I cultured yeast from the Bruery's Saison Rue for mine.

 

[KyleWolf]

I have been doing some bottle conditioned yeast cultures and half the time I find out they were bottled with champagne yeast...did you contact the brewery to make sure they didn't change over the yeast?

And has anyone ever used cara-red? I am really curious about this, I think I may contact brewmaster's warehouse directly to see if anyone there has used it in their brews.

 

[jessup]

did this ever happen KW? i liked the idea and took it but added caraway seeds and victory for schnitsNgiggles.

9.5 oz Flaked Rye
8.5 oz Munich
8 oz Aromatic
1 lb Victory
8 oz CaraWheat
5 lb Wheat DME
1 oz Amarillo - 75
1.5 oz Hallertau - 10
1.5 lb Clear Belgian Candi Syrup (free score!)
1 tsp Caraway Seeds (lightly ground)
1 tsp irish moss
1L WY3711 French Saison
OG 1.068

i'll let you know how it turns out. oh, and never used CaraRed b4. this could be a trainwreck, but hell, it could be fantastic!

 

[Jenks829]

Any updates on these brews?

 

[KyleWolf]

My Red Rye Saison I have brewed twice now. It is a real solid beer. Though the recipe has changed a bit over time. My new recipe and the one I stick by is:

7.00 lb Pilsner
2.50 lb Rye Malt
1.00 lb Carared
1.00 lb Munich
0.50 lb Flaked Rye
0.25 lb Aromatic

0.35oz Columbus 90min 18IBU
1.00oz Northern Brewer 15min 13.2IBU
1.00oz Saaz 5min 2.5IBU

1lb Orange Blossom Honey at the end of boil (next time I will add it halfway through primary).

WLP578 Belgian Saison Ale Style Blend.

SG 1.064
FG 1.011-1.009
Mashed at 148

Color? Bright gold/orange with hints of copper-red when the light hits. Perhaps almost too clear for a saison. Very little to no hop flavor, if there is, it is lost in the spice of the yeast and rye. I am a big fan of it and it is one of my top 5 favorite brews of mine.

Sorry for never responding btw, I never realized this thread got dug up.

 

[Blackhawkbrew]

KyleWolf, I looking to brew your recipe soon, it will be my first saison. Instead of the honey, what candi sugar would you recommend? And the only saison yeast strains my LHBS has is WLP566 and 565.

 

[KyleWolf]

If you didnt want to do honey I would make up some light/clear candi sugar. I haven't heard a lot of good things about WLP565 and 566, but others may have different opinions. If I had to choose, I would say grab the WLP565. Just remember with this yeast the ramp to 80+ degrees after the first 2wks of primary is critical to dry this sucker out.