Red/Pale Ale

[feedthebear]

This weekend I'm making my first attempt at a Red Ale. Its my first attempt at something on the hoppy-bitter side of the spectrum and I was wondering what people thought of my hop choices. I'm trying to hop it more like a Pale Ale than an IPA.

Also I was wondering what everyone thought of the use of honey. I'm not sold on it.

The recipe:
6.6 lb of Pale LME
1 lb of extra light DME
1 lb of light crystal malt
0.5 lb of Munich malt
0.5 lb of Carapils
0.25 lb of roasted barley
1 lb of honey (most likely clove or alfalfa)

1.5 oz Centennial Leaf (60 minutes) (assume 10.7%AA)
1.5 oz Centennial Leaf (30 minutes) (assume 10.7%AA)
1 oz Fuggles Leaf (2 minutes) (assume 4.4%AA)

British Whitbread Ale Yeast (Wyeast 1098)
Est. O.G. = 1.073
Est. HBU = 32
Est. IBU = 103

 

[Dude]

I was going to suggest you cut the crystal to .5 lb, but then I saw the OG. It'll need it.

I don't know what you mean by "hop it like a pale"...it seems like a lot of hops to me.

As for the honey, you'll get absolutely no honey character in that beer with all of the bitterness--so if it is in there just to raise OG, you'd be just as well off using corn sugar.

 

[Pumbaa]

the honey will thin it out a touch and make it a bit dryer but what kicked me in the nutz was 103 IBUs?

high end for a Red is 28
for an American Pale ale is 45+
for an English Pale Ale (aka ESB) is 50+
for an IPA your looking at the high end being 60
Hell your even on the high end for an Imperial IPA 100+

IMHO throttel them hops back to about 40ish but keep the fuggels at the end for aroma

 

[the_bird]

The numbers are messed up once you get that high. Dude's Pliny was very drinkable at "281 IBUs." My Murder In The Red Barn (another hoppy red with a lot of Munich) is supposedly in the low-80s, but does't taste like it.

This will definately be a hoppy beer, but that's cool..

 

[feedthebear]

If I'm not going to get any honey character out of it, I'm less likely to use it.

By "hop it like a pale ale" I mean that I'm trying for something middle of the range between malty and hoppy. I don't want to make it as bitter as an IPA. Most IPA's have more hop flavor than I enjoy.

Should I drop it down to 1.25 oz or 1 oz for the bittering hop additions? Or should I switch to something like Cascade that is more mild?

 

[Pumbaa]

do you want the hoppyness but not the bittness?

 

[the_bird]

If I'm not going to get any honey character out of it, I'm less likely to use it.

By "hop it like a pale ale" I mean that I'm trying for something middle of the range between malty and hoppy. I don't want to make it as bitter as an IPA. Most IPA's have more hop flavor than I enjoy.

Should I drop it down to 1.25 oz or 1 oz for the bittering hop additions?

If that's the case, shoot your target IBUs down to 35 - 40 or so. The late additions will give you the flavor, which may be competing with the malt. The recipe, as written, is much more of an IPA (albeit too dark, like mine) than anything else.

 

[Pumbaa]

look at Bullion (7AA) instead of the Centenial (10.5AA)
think about 1oz at 60 min then another 1oz at 20 minutes, thenthe fuggels at 4min like you had planned on. It will bring your IBU's down to about 41-42 and give you a nice hoppy flavor and aroma withouth the nutz in a vice bitterness . . . also gives ya all english hops since it's a Red base

oh and leave the honey out your already at the Reds high end for SG without it

 

[Dude]

Keep the BU:GU ratio to around .7-.8 and it will be in the pale ale range. What you have now is a red IPA at 1.3, which is way too high--based on what you explained you wanted.

BTW, BU:GU ratio is like this... O.G. = 1.040, IBUs = 40, = 1:1 BU:GU

 

[Pumbaa]

at a gravity of 1.068 (no honey) and a IBU of 42 like I have it above thats what .6ish?

 

[Sean]

My rather inexperienced opinion would be to lose the honey. Personally I do not like the ultra dry-ness it lends to a beer.

and, as Pumbaa suggests, only use 1 - 1.5 oz of the centenial, and go with a substitute in the 5 - 7 alpha range.

 

[feedthebear]

I can bump the hops up to 1.2 oz. and get the IBU to 50, which gives a ratio of 0.73. That puts it in Dude's range. I can adjust the hoppyness in future batches from there.

Thanks for the hops suggestion Pumbaa. And thanks for the rule of thumb Dude.

 

[feedthebear]

Well, they didn't have Bullion leaf hops at the LBHS. I suspect that if I really want to keep brewing with whole hops, I'll have to internet order them to get the ones I want.

So I ended up buying Cascade at 7.6%.

 

[feedthebear]

Okay, here's what I did and here's the results:

Cascade Leaf - 7.6%AA - 1.3oz. - 60 minutes
Cascade Leaf - 7.6%AA - 1.3oz. - 20 minutes
Fuggle Leaf - 4.7%AA - 1oz. - 5 minutes

IBU = 48
My OG came in lower than I expected. It was 1.060. I was expecting 1.068.

BU:GU = 0.8

It is really nice. Execellent aroma and mild bitterness. A little less than most PAs that I have had. But I suspect most PAs I've had were really overhopped IPAs.

And the color is excellent too. I used 1lb of Crisp Caro-Malt, 0.5lb of Munich 100 Malt, and 0.25 lb of Roasted Barley as my steeping grains.

When the brew calculator said, "Deep Copper" it wasn't kidding. In good light it is deep copper. In low light it looks very red. I almost woke SWMBO to show her. But then I realized I would die if I did.

 

[feedthebear]

Well, I discovered something very important about my taste in beer with this one. I can tell its a good beer, but it takes on a weird flavor when I get about mid-bottle.

I finally figured out that what I wasn't liking about it was something that also existed in my failed Ginger Beer. So I went back and checked my notes on the two beers. The only thing they have in common is Cascade hops.

For whatever reason, Cascade hops seem to really fatigue my taste buds. If I only drink 6 - 12 oz. it isn't so bad. But if I drink more than 12 oz. it starts taking on an extra bitter and slick flavor.

And it explains a lot about what beers I don't like. A lot of American PAs and IPAs use Cascade hops. And I generally don't like them.

Next time I'll have to try the recipe with the Bullion hops instead.

 

[Brewsmith]

Northern Brewer is another great bittering hop you might want to try.

 

[feedthebear]

I've used Northern Brewer in 3 of my beers. It and Hallertau are my favorites so far.