OP
OP
It's not even lunchtime, and I want stout.
Recommend a Factory Porter
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I love Founder's Porter and London Pride Porter. I absolutely hate Samuel Smith Taddy Porter.
I really like Anchor Porter. Not too bitter, just a touch of sweet, great mouth feel. I recommend giving it a try if you can get it in your area. It's hit or miss here so I stock up when I find it.
dwightr8
Well-Known Member
Here's a good article you might want to read:
Deschutes Black Butte Porter
I haven't tried this recipe (yet) but I can vouch for the real thing!
OP
OP
The Whole Foods knockoff near me only had a couple of porters that didn't look gimmicky. Founder's and Samuel Smith. I picked them up. I also found a can labeled "Kolsch-style ale," so I grabbed that.
OP
OP
I tried Samuel Smith. I guess you could call it a stout, but it lacks the kind of bitterness you get with a stout that has a decent amount of roasted grain in it.
It smells like raisins, and it tastes a lot like a fruitcake. I think if you reduced this stuff with sugar, you could use it to flavor a fruitcake.
It wasn't bad, but something about the taste suggested cheapness. I read that sugar is one of the ingredients. Maybe too much sugar and not enough grain?
I wouldn't turn one down, but I wouldn't buy it again, either.
It smells like raisins, and it tastes a lot like a fruitcake. I think if you reduced this stuff with sugar, you could use it to flavor a fruitcake.
It wasn't bad, but something about the taste suggested cheapness. I read that sugar is one of the ingredients. Maybe too much sugar and not enough grain?
I wouldn't turn one down, but I wouldn't buy it again, either.
I also enjoy crystal malt, but usually try to keep it at 5-10% of the grist.
On porter, at least for brittish breweries, what we know as stout today (Fullers black cab, Shepherd Neames Double etc) can in a way be seen as a revival of the old school 1.055-ish Porter.
The word stout as pointed out originates from "stout porter", meaning a strong porter, during the second half of 19th century it came to describe a ~1.070+ beer with similair qualities to a porter, but called just stout.
The around 5% abv for many stouts likely come from forced gravity drops during the war, it used to be higher, with porters at about the same strenght as today, at least from the later half of the 1800's until it's decline with WW1.
On porter, at least for brittish breweries, what we know as stout today (Fullers black cab, Shepherd Neames Double etc) can in a way be seen as a revival of the old school 1.055-ish Porter.
The word stout as pointed out originates from "stout porter", meaning a strong porter, during the second half of 19th century it came to describe a ~1.070+ beer with similair qualities to a porter, but called just stout.
The around 5% abv for many stouts likely come from forced gravity drops during the war, it used to be higher, with porters at about the same strenght as today, at least from the later half of the 1800's until it's decline with WW1.
People rave about Taddy Porter but I agree, I find it slightly watery.
I did a few iterations on an English Porter recipe. My first "from scratch" one was a bit of a flop (not the right roast balance, way too much peanut character from Victory Malt). I then brewed a recipe very close to the "Fuller’s London Porter clone" in this article:
https://byo.com/article/brown-malt/
In the next iteration, I reduced the Brown Malt down to 1 lb and liked that version much better. I then realized the recipe I had "created" was almost identical to the recipe in "Brewing Classic Styles". I like Fuller’s London Porter, but I find I like a bit more roast character and a bit less dark fruit/raisin character. I have a version in the fermenter now that I plan to send to NHC. I tried to reduce the roast character on this batch just a little, hoping it would score better in the English Porter category.
I feel like Founders Porter is an excellent example of an American Porter. I also really like Deschutes Black Butte Porter. Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is listed in the guidelines as an example, but to me that one crosses that fuzzy line into stout area (but it is a very nice beer). I also plan to send an American Porter to NHC.
https://byo.com/article/brown-malt/
In the next iteration, I reduced the Brown Malt down to 1 lb and liked that version much better. I then realized the recipe I had "created" was almost identical to the recipe in "Brewing Classic Styles". I like Fuller’s London Porter, but I find I like a bit more roast character and a bit less dark fruit/raisin character. I have a version in the fermenter now that I plan to send to NHC. I tried to reduce the roast character on this batch just a little, hoping it would score better in the English Porter category.
I feel like Founders Porter is an excellent example of an American Porter. I also really like Deschutes Black Butte Porter. Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is listed in the guidelines as an example, but to me that one crosses that fuzzy line into stout area (but it is a very nice beer). I also plan to send an American Porter to NHC.
OP
OP
I think it's important to admit to ourselves that the people who created old commercial beers, even in Europe, didn't always do the best work possible.
JoeSpartaNJ
Well-Known Member
Was the Sam Smith dated? Could be old.
I do not think I've ever seen it under 4 months old in NJ in my life
I agree, there were, evident by old documents, lots of mediocre brewers out there.
Though keep in mind that for about the 3 last decades of the 1800's, sanitation and hygiene standards in a brewery were on par with todays, and the brewing process itself practically the same.
So apart from different public tastes back then affecting recipe creation, malt types used, ratios etc, pale ales and porter probably would not taste to far off for a modern drinker...
Though keep in mind that for about the 3 last decades of the 1800's, sanitation and hygiene standards in a brewery were on par with todays, and the brewing process itself practically the same.
So apart from different public tastes back then affecting recipe creation, malt types used, ratios etc, pale ales and porter probably would not taste to far off for a modern drinker...
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
Trivia quesiton (inspired by the article) for those or those who follow people, not content providers: name two other home brewing related things the author has been involved with?
I don't want to delve into the true definitions if they even exist. I thought I might mention that as a homebrewer I do try to create a difference when I'm making recipes, just so I have something to shoot for.
My porters tend to be dry, I like to get coffee flavors (and even add beans at times), and I tend to do brown and pale chocolate malts at one end of the spectrum with black malts in them as well from the other end. My stouts tend to be heavier bodied, I shoot for chocolate flavors (and sometimes add nibs), and tend to use a lot of roasted barley and chocolate malt, staying more in the middle of the spectrum.
It helped me out anyhow, to have a goal, and try to brew different beers that I could have kegged at the same time and not feel like they were too similar to each other. I also make a brown ale and an Imperial Stout which of course I try to make easily distinguishable form the porter and stout.
Ron's Let's Brew series
The BJCP
ETA: He created the ubiquitous Landlord clone kit, Innkeeper.
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Scrolls down to see the author's name and thinks, "it is good to see some women writing brewing articles." Searches Google and learns that Kristen England is a man. I cannot say I have ever heard of him before.
For those interested in historic British brewing and historic brewing in general, he is a bit of a legend.
OP
OP
I tried the Founder's porter I bought. I thought it was very nice. Like stout with less chocolate malt. I have no complaints about it, but I like more flavor.
I have found it very informative to evaluate a popular commercial beer and then look for information on the recipe. There are several sources for Founders Porter recipes. This thread has some good info: Any Founder's Porter clone recipes or info?
Founders Porter is probably "more like a stout that shifts the roasted malt bill toward chocolate malt and away from black malt or roasted barley." I would note that chocolate malt can vary from 350L to 500L (with Pale Chocolate Malt being maybe 200-250L), and Briess sells a 300L Roasted Barley. I tend to think that Porters will have more Chocolate Malt character with sweetness to balance, where Stouts will lean on more 500L malts (with varying levels of body and sweetness depending on the style).
Some American Porters can be quite hoppy as well.
OP
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It looks like I misunderstood chocolate malt and roasted barley. I always thought roasted barley was the darkest, but a few days back, I saw a site claiming the opposite. I am checking now, and it looks like the roasted barley I've been using runs 488-713L, but the chocolate malt runs 338-432. So then Founder's must cut back on roasted barley, not chocolate malt.
I thought Founder's was great, but stout is pretty nearly the same thing, and I like it much better, so I don't see any point in trying to make porter.
I thought Founder's was great, but stout is pretty nearly the same thing, and I like it much better, so I don't see any point in trying to make porter.
I might agree with you. I feel like many of the better American Porters (as least what I like) are right on that Porter/Stout line. I have been working on an American Porter recipe mostly as a challenge to make one that would do well in competitions.
I do really like a more robust version of an English Porter though. Something that is in the 5% range with flavors from EKG Hops, Marris Otter, Brown Malt, Chocolate Malt, Black Malt, and English Crystal Malts. I find these beers to be really refreshing any day of the year with a feeling of sustenance to keep me going while working in the garden on a hot summer day.
That is the beauty of homebrewing. You get to make what you like to drink and call it what you want to call it!
See what I mean? Not that every stout is like every porter, but the two 'styles' overlap so much as to be nearly meaningless. Many stouts are very porter-y, many porters are stout-y. To the point that I ignore what it's called and judge the dark roasty beer by taste. On the 3rd & 5th sips, of course.
shoreman
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Founders Porter is the most accessible and fresh if you are in the US. I buy a couple 6packs a year Porter | Robust Porter | Founders Brewing Co.
I would try Cigar City Porter
PCABrewing
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I have always liked Rogue Shakespeare Stout or their Chocolate stout. They have much more flavor than Guinness.
I haven't seen them in the store recently. Last I saw was the Chocolate Stout a while back.
Maybe they quit brewing them.
I first had Young's Double Chocolate Stout from a tap and it was sublime.
Their nitro widget canned version isn't quite that good but it's pretty darned tasty...
Cheers!
Their nitro widget canned version isn't quite that good but it's pretty darned tasty...
Cheers!
OP
OP
I guess my own stout must be an oatmeal stout. It seems to meet all the official parameters. I don't really care about categorizing it, but knowing a style it fits could be useful when I tell others about it.
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