RE: What woud happen if we fermented straight sugar w/o fruit?

[rtogio]

This is a question for all the home vintners - what would happen if we just fermented a must made of water and sugar without adding any fruit?

Assuming we use a wine yeast, would we get something akin to rum? And if/when it did ferment dry, would it be drinkable?

Before anyone asks, I'm just curious. I've got no intentions to make rum-wine at home. I was asked the above question by a fiend I didn't know how to answer.

 

[podz]

This is called "kilju" (kill you) in Finnish, and it's illegal here. It's very, very skank stuff and you'd need to filter it through activated carbon quite many times just to make it tolerable.

Read this thread:


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=491977

 

[bernardsmith]

Asked by a fiend? A Freudian fiend presumably... I don't know that any simple fermentation is in fact illegal in the USA.. Assuming, of course that you can ferment beer or wine in any state.. but I would imagine that fermented table sugar would be... "tasteless". You ferment fruit and honey and various tree saps because of their flavor. Here you would be fermenting something simply to produce the alcohol - I say that because presumably "sugar" is manufactured so that it does not in any significant way alter the flavor of what it is added to... it simply makes the flavor more sweet but when you ferment you are removing all the sweetness.... So it would probably be better fitted to run some kind of motor than to drink...

 

[Qhrumphf]

A Russian friend's wife's mother makes just that, fermented sugar water. I *think* she uses bread yeast, but I'm not positive about that. She calls it moonshine, but I don't' think it's distilled. It's not quite as bad as it sounds, but it's pretty bad. It might as well be distilled.

 

[mash-mongrel]

Fermented sugar is tasteless except for the flavours added by the yeast. Then freeze the so called "wine" pour off the alcohol that didn't freeze. This process is called freeze distillation and is illegal. Fermenting of low wines of any flavour is legal, it's the distilling that's illegal. If you plan on trying this use turbo yeast that ferments to 20% in a few days so the alcohol separates when you freeze it.

Edit: I had posted this process was legal but it is not legal everywhere; resulting in the comments below. After further consideration taking into account we are on the World Wide Web and for the purposes of the OP I correct my above comments.

 

[bernardsmith]

I believe that freezing wine to increase the alcohol content is considered distillation and is illegal in the USA.

 

[podz]

I believe that freezing wine to increase the alcohol content is considered distillation and is illegal in the USA.

No, it is not. It is, however, illegal in Finland and the only reason I made reference to that fact is because this activity lies squarely in the domain of those alcoholics who have drank themselves homeless.

 

[lumpher]

deleted

 

[Qhrumphf]

I believe that freezing wine to increase the alcohol content is considered distillation and is illegal in the USA.

This was settled a while back. Basic Brewing got direct word from TTB. It is not illegal for homebrewers, flat out. It's more complicated for pros.

Legally it is considered "concentration" and not "distillation" (regardless of actual chemistry).

 

[Paps]

"Freeze concentration" A.K.A. "Jacking" , that some people erronously call "Freeze Distillation" (it is NOT a distillation at all) has no federal law prohibiting it in the U.S.A. This subject has been beaten to death on MANY occasions here on HBT & i'm sure elsewhere. That being said, every state may have different laws regarding it. For example, i live in Arkansas, if i take a beer/wine/cider that is %10 ABV and jack it to %20 ABV there is no law broken. But if i take that same product and jack it up to %22 ABV it becomes "a spirit" and regardless of how said spirit was made, it is illegal. In Arkansas (at the time of me writing this) the legal line in the sand is %21 ABV. Under that amount and no worries, over that amount and a cop could screw you for making a spirit without a license.(free men don't need permission) I however have been told that there is no `state level` law forbidding production of spirits for SELF CONSUMPTION in Arkansas but i cannot verify it's truthfullness or not.

Anyways. Back on topic.
I've made "Kilju" before and it isn't a `bad tasting product.....
It's a NON-TASTE having product.
I remember adding some almond extract and coffee just to give it some flavor.
I only did a 1 gallon batch & feel that there are better things to make such as cider. If you wanted to make something comparable to a watered down vodka without the bite, then this is for you. But as the Finnish guy mentioned, it is purely problem drinker territory.

 

[Terek]

It is illegal for homebrewers in the US to freeze-distill, otherwise known as freeze-concentrating. According to ATF Ruling 94-3, you not only have to have a license, you also have to have the process approved.

better take all the threads on here down that tell you how to make apple jack. Thats what it is, and if illegal, im sure the admins would want to know about it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=400786

 

[mash-mongrel]

Hey fellers, thought I would correct myself. Concentrating or distilling of alcohol is the same thing, you are increasing the ABV regardless of the methods used and are to be considered a distiller. ATF or the TTB define freeze concentrating as freeze distilling making it illegal.

Ruling 94-3 is about freezing beer and is legal as long as only 0.5% of the water is removed, no more. Freezing anything other than beer, wine or cider for example, is illegal. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[podz]

How amazing that we finns have become world famous for introducing the world to the shame called "kilju". How utterly amazing... Nobody here drinks it except teenagers and professional alcoholics.

 

[madscientist451]

I work in a State prison and the inmates there make home made wine that the convicts call "JUMP". The main ingredient is sugar that they buy in the commissary or steal from the kitchen. They also add whatever fruit the state gives them with their meals, usually citrus. The resulting "wine" is usually consumed after about 5 days of fermenting and has a revolting, vile aroma more like new years vomit than anything we would call wine.
So go ahead, make some sugar only "wine".

 

[podz]

The resulting "wine" is usually consumed after about 5 days of fermenting and has a revolting, vile aroma more like new years vomit than anything we would call wine.

That's why they call it kilju. Truly a drink for the lowest class of people. If you can afford an internet connection and can write well enough to participate in a beer brewing forum, kilju shouldn't even be a question.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Hey fellers, thought I would correct myself. Concentrating or distilling of alcohol is the same thing, you are increasing the ABV regardless of the methods used and are to be considered a distiller. ATF or the TTB define freeze concentrating as freeze distilling making it illegal.

Ruling 94-3 is about freezing beer and is legal as long as only 0.5% of the water is removed, no more. Freezing anything other than beer, wine or cider for example, is illegal. Sorry for the confusion.

Again, FROM TTB DIRECTLY this is not true. It is a tax issue, and PROS cannot do it, but TTB has explicitly said that it is LEGAL (on the federal level, some states obviously have their own laws) for homebrewers because homebrew is not taxed. There is no debate, as their word is the final one.

 

[Qhrumphf]

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr01-22-09firestone.mp3

In case the link doesn't go to the right place, it's January 22nd, 2009 episode of Basic Brewing Radio. It's the first topic right at the beginning.

 

[Terek]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=104882

here is a thread about it, i also asked my uncle (chief of police in meridian idaho) and he said that it is only illegal for commercial breweries to do it. When done at home, for personal use, it is legal. Just like making beer. As long as you dont sell it, its fine.
Its all about money, folks. The government wants there cut if you are making money off it. Your hard work needs to pay for there hawaii vacations, duh

 

[mash-mongrel]

https://m.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/2sgzw4/psa_regarding_freeze_distillation_for_us/

 

[Yooper]

Again, FROM TTB DIRECTLY this is not true. It is a tax issue, and PROS cannot do it, but TTB has explicitly said that it is LEGAL (on the federal level, some states obviously have their own laws) for homebrewers because homebrew is not taxed. There is no debate, as their word is the final one.

We don't use reddit as a resource.

Since it IS legal on the federal level, and in Texas, where our forum is based- it's fine to talk about.

But since this thread wasn't about freeze concentration, it will be closed since it is not up for debate.