raw wheat cereal mash, need saccharification rest for that portion?

[rshortt]

Hi everyone, I'm about to embark on a lambic project.

I normally brew full volume BIAB and I'm piecing together a possible hybrid cereal / BIAB mash schedule.

Grain bill: 35% raw wheat, 65% pilsner malt

My tentative plan is to take my raw wheat and mash it on my stove in a separate pot with 10% of my pils. I'll start with a protein rest then ramp it up to boiling for 30 minutes.

In my BIAB rig I'll mash the rest of the pilsner malt, saccharification rest.

My question is in the context of a lambic fermentation (mostly Brett in this case) does the wheat need a saccharification rest with the enzymes from the Pilsner malt or will the Brettanomyces love the gelatinized starches? What about Lacto and Pedeo?

If it doesn't then I'll just add the boiling cereal mash to my Pilsner mash for mash out then raise my bag to lauter.

Thoughts?

 

[Double_D]

I think you've got the basic idea. Here's a better explanation, and confirmation from Brad Smith:
http://beersmith.com/blog/2013/09/06/cereal-mash-steps-for-all-grain-beer-brewing/

As for lambic, I know a turbid mash was traditional...but because of the tax on mash tun volume. Or something to that effect.

When you add your cereal mash to the main mash the enzymes in the pils will break down the gelatinized starches into fermentable sugars. I know a brewer that uses a higher mash temp to give brett more to chew on but I've had good luck with sour beers that started out mashed at 150 so I don't have anything that isn't anecdotal.

My .02: mash as normal, keep ibu low to keep bacteria happy, do a cereal mash or use wheat malt next time to save a step, rdwhahb.

 

[rshortt]

When you add your cereal mash to the main mash the enzymes in the pils will break down the gelatinized starches into fermentable sugars.

I wonder what kind of rest time I'll need or does it even matter. I know Brett will break down long chains but are those starchy wheat chains too long?

Would a short rest break down some of them, or break all of them down a bit?

My .02: mash as normal, keep ibu low to keep bacteria happy, do a cereal mash or use wheat malt next time to save a step, rdwhahb.

I'm filling a 15gal keg for a solera. I'm doing two double batches (this is the first), the second will be with malted wheat and I'll be using both of the first plus one of the second brew to fill the vessel. The remaining one will be on its own with a different set of bugs. But I digress...

 

[Double_D]

I wonder what kind of rest time I'll need or does it even matter. I know Brett will break down long chains but are those starchy wheat chains too long?

Would a short rest break down some of them, or break all of them down a bit?


I'm filling a 15gal keg for a solera. I'm doing two double batches (this is the first), the second will be with malted wheat and I'll be using both of the first plus one of the second brew to fill the vessel. The remaining one will be on its own with a different set of bugs. But I digress...

Do you mean mash rest? If you combine them at saccarification temp it won't take long to convert starch to sugar. Conventional dogma says 60 min at 150 but I can vouch for 20 min at 148... Short answer, you're going to make simple carbohydrates. The question is the actual necessity... High mash temp may leave more for Brett because sacc can't eat them. Regardless, Brett can metabolize more complex sugars that sacc but young have gelatinized starch left.