American Wheat Beer Hazy Cheapskate - Miraculix forbidden Ale

Williams 728
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I used this method to brew 30 L of wort today. 25 for a wild fermentation, 5 extra because I always overshoot my gravity with this stuff.

Let's just say this does not work in an electric kettle with a traditional mash scheme. Ended up doing it in two pans before blending all the wort together and taking out 5-6 L for a session hazy.

Recipe:
OG: 1.050

Malt (for 28 liters in total):
2.5 kg lager malt
2.0 kg wheat flour
0.5 kg flaked oats

10 mins at 45 C (ended up much longer though because of all the scorching)
10 mins at 56 C
30 mins at 65 C
30 mins at 72 C


Hops (60 and 10 minute boil):
30 g aged hops @ 60

Yeast:
Whatever is in the air tonight and maybe a random packet to at least get some going.

OR

10 g Sabro @ 10
15 g Sabro FO
15 g Simcoe FO

Whirlpool:
25 g Sabro
25 g Simcoe

Dry hops:
50 g Sabro
Whatever Idaho 7 I have left. Probably around 10-20 grams.

Yeast:
Verdant IPA

Next year I'll try a single infusion at 69 C to skip this nonsense or just use pans from the start.
 
G_robertus said:
I used this method to brew 30 L of wort today. 25 for a wild fermentation, 5 extra because I always overshoot my gravity with this stuff.

Let's just say this does not work in an electric kettle with a traditional mash scheme. Ended up doing it in two pans before blending all the wort together and taking out 5-6 L for a session hazy.

Recipe:
OG: 1.050

Malt (for 28 liters in total):
2.5 kg lager malt
2.0 kg wheat flour
0.5 kg flaked oats

10 mins at 45 C (ended up much longer though because of all the scorching)
10 mins at 56 C
30 mins at 65 C
30 mins at 72 C


Hops (60 and 10 minute boil):
30 g aged hops @ 60

Yeast:
Whatever is in the air tonight and maybe a random packet to at least get some going.

OR

10 g Sabro @ 10
15 g Sabro FO
15 g Simcoe FO

Whirlpool:
25 g Sabro
25 g Simcoe

Dry hops:
50 g Sabro
Whatever Idaho 7 I have left. Probably around 10-20 grams.

Yeast:
Verdant IPA

Next year I'll try a single infusion at 69 C to skip this nonsense or just use pans from the start.
Click to expand...
Just go with a single infusion at about 67c, it really works well. Must be horrible trying to heat the flour water!
 
Miraculix said:
Just go with a single infusion at about 67c, it really works well. Must be horrible trying to heat the flour water!
Click to expand...
Yeah that wasn't very nice. I also found out my new (secondhand) fermenter is larger than 25 liters so I'll brew another one soon as well to top it off. Thinking of splitting that one as well if the IPA turns out well.
 
G_robertus said:
Yeah that wasn't very nice. I also found out my new (secondhand) fermenter is larger than 25 liters so I'll brew another one soon as well to top it off. Thinking of splitting that one as well if the IPA turns out well.
Click to expand...
Split batches are always a very good idea. A very convenient way to get to know the difference of single recipe changes like different yeasts of different dry hops and so on.
 
Getting ready to try this @Miraculix , with the Sabro.
Was simply going to get whole wheat store brand, but if it's self rising, how do you (if at all) account for the salt and baking powder (Baking powder is a dry chemical leavener made from sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), an acid (like cream of tartar) and cornstarch.)?
 
balrog said:
Getting ready to try this @Miraculix , with the Sabro.
Was simply going to get whole wheat store brand, but if it's self rising, how do you (if at all) account for the salt and baking powder (Baking powder is a dry chemical leavener made from sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), an acid (like cream of tartar) and cornstarch.)?
Click to expand...
You simply cannot use self rising flour!!!
 
Apropos of nothing, one of my favourite bits of French is "baking powder" translating as "levure chimique" - chemical yeast.

It's almost German in its literalness...
 
Ok. Mashin was scary w 4# milled Pils malt and 5# bag of flour stirred in w malt the poured and whisked and stirred and whisked and stirred and sweared at, resulting no n what can only best be described at dumpling goo. At 30 min stir and take ph sample, all was lovely. Now the bad news. For anyone trying this BIAB, be prepared to wait about a week for the mash to drain. Perhaps rice hills would have helped. I don’t know. I’ll let you know in about an hour or three how it finally finished. This shows that raising the bag lifted the entire batch pretty much w the water level up high in the bag and very little underneath in the kettle
 

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balrog said:
Ok. Mashin was scary w 4# milled Pils malt and 5# bag of flour stirred in w malt the poured and whisked and stirred and whisked and stirred and sweared at, resulting no n what can only best be described at dumpling goo. At 30 min stir and take ph sample, all was lovely. Now the bad news. For anyone trying this BIAB, be prepared to wait about a week for the mash to drain. Perhaps rice hills would have helped. I don’t know. I’ll let you know in about an hour or three how it finally finished. This shows that raising the bag lifted the entire batch pretty much w the water level up high in the bag and very little underneath in the kettle
Click to expand...
The trick is to gently massage the bag while draining it so that everything is in a constant movement.
 
Miraculix said:
The trick is to gently massage the bag while draining it so that everything is in a constant movement.
Click to expand...
I did find that out the hard (time) way, thanks.
My typical brew day sees about 5 min drain, then put kettle back on burner while getting 11-12 minutes of drain for about maybe 2-3 cups tops more, while coming to a boil. And I like that timing. This was 20 minutes and just wasn't doing anything so I lowered it back in, stirred in 1/2# of rice hulls, and kept poking and jiggling the bag. I drained about 30 minutes, and that was my full vol. I also overshot OG, likely due to flour being 100% starch w no hulls or anything (it's "pre sifted flour" after all). Lessons learned are to expect slow lauter, try whole wheat next time (the cheaper no-brand offerings were only white bleached or unbleached, being the one I chose), use rice hulls. It's a pretty murky looking brew going in the fermenter. I was so behind my expected timeline I didn't even take a pic of the hydro sample, which looked pretty much about what you might expect mixing 5# of flour into water. The taste was good bitter, pine, dark orange, underneath the sugary malt flavor of course. And it was quite a thick mouthfeel. The suspended flour also screws with refractomer, which gave 1.053 while the two hydrometers I have gave 1.056. I"ll know, and share, more in a week or two.
1683399410448.png


Dumped in on the milled Pils malt
1683399433927.png


Stirred in the malt
1683399449269.png


Some "dumplings" at mash in
1683399471409.png


All dumplings gone at 30m when I stirred and took pH sample
1683399543214.png


Stirred in rice hulls
1683399571781.png


Draining sloooooowly
1683399604772.png


Milky boil
1683399636012.png
 
balrog said:
I did find that out the hard (time) way, thanks.
My typical brew day sees about 5 min drain, then put kettle back on burner while getting 11-12 minutes of drain for about maybe 2-3 cups tops more, while coming to a boil. And I like that timing. This was 20 minutes and just wasn't doing anything so I lowered it back in, stirred in 1/2# of rice hulls, and kept poking and jiggling the bag. I drained about 30 minutes, and that was my full vol. I also overshot OG, likely due to flour being 100% starch w no hulls or anything (it's "pre sifted flour" after all). Lessons learned are to expect slow lauter, try whole wheat next time (the cheaper no-brand offerings were only white bleached or unbleached, being the one I chose), use rice hulls. It's a pretty murky looking brew going in the fermenter. I was so behind my expected timeline I didn't even take a pic of the hydro sample, which looked pretty much about what you might expect mixing 5# of flour into water. The taste was good bitter, pine, dark orange, underneath the sugary malt flavor of course. And it was quite a thick mouthfeel. The suspended flour also screws with refractomer, which gave 1.053 while the two hydrometers I have gave 1.056. I"ll know, and share, more in a week or two.
View attachment 819431

Dumped in on the milled Pils malt
View attachment 819432

Stirred in the malt
View attachment 819433

Some "dumplings" at mash in
View attachment 819434

All dumplings gone at 30m when I stirred and took pH sample
View attachment 819435

Stirred in rice hulls
View attachment 819436

Draining sloooooowly
View attachment 819437

Milky boil
View attachment 819438
Click to expand...
Your patience will be rewarded!
 
Well I am halfway through the mash using 1 lb MO pale ale malt, 1 lb whole wheat flour, and 0.5 lb white flour (for a small batch). I honestly came in with very low expectations, but so far it has thinned out a lot and is tasting sweet.
Update: Finally have it in the fermenter! Efficiency is somewhere around 70%, better than the 60% I have been hitting. I'm looking forward to seeing how it comes out - I only used Cascade hops.
 
Last edited:
Lampy said:
Well I am halfway through the mash using 1 lb MO pale ale malt, 1 lb whole wheat flour, and 0.5 lb white flour (for a small batch). I honestly came in with very low expectations, but so far it has thinned out a lot and is tasting sweet.
Update: Finally have it in the fermenter! Efficiency is somewhere around 70%, better than the 60% I have been hitting. I'm looking forward to seeing how it comes out - I only used Cascade hops.
Click to expand...
Sounds good! I bet it will be a nice beer!
 
Ok. Finally tried it.
Brewed 6 May 2023
Kegged 8 July 2023
1.056 OG (crazy good efficiency) 1.009 FG (Crazy US05 attenuation ~84%) for a 6.3%ABV

It's not my fav, gotta say. There's no head retention (even with wheat?) so I'm wondering what all else I've mucked up. And while the bitterness is fine, there's no discernible hop flavor.

I'll chalk it up to left too long during processing.
 
balrog said:
Ok. Finally tried it.
Brewed 6 May 2023
Kegged 8 July 2023
1.056 OG (crazy good efficiency) 1.009 FG (Crazy US05 attenuation ~84%) for a 6.3%ABV

It's not my fav, gotta say. There's no head retention (even with wheat?) so I'm wondering what all else I've mucked up. And while the bitterness is fine, there's no discernible hop flavor.

I'll chalk it up to left too long during processing.
Click to expand...
That sounds like infection to me. The real deal version has so much head that you really need to pour carefully and the hop flavour should be STRONG!
 
balrog said:
What did you eventually find?
Click to expand...
That I had too much oxygen ingress during fermentation. Leaky fermenters. This in combination with a stubborn bacteria (probably acetic acid bacteria) was the reason why the head producing proteins were disappearing quickly. New fermenter, better seal, problem gone.
 
Miraculix said:
That I had too much oxygen ingress during fermentation. Leaky fermenters. This in combination with a stubborn bacteria (probably acetic acid bacteria) was the reason why the head producing proteins were disappearing quickly. New fermenter, better seal, problem gone.
Click to expand...
Hm. That agrees with my leaving it way longer than my “normal” in primary fermenter.
 
balrog said:
Ok. Mashin was scary w 4# milled Pils malt and 5# bag of flour stirred in w malt the poured and whisked and stirred and whisked and stirred and sweared at, resulting no n what can only best be described at dumpling goo. At 30 min stir and take ph sample, all was lovely. Now the bad news. For anyone trying this BIAB, be prepared to wait about a week for the mash to drain. Perhaps rice hills would have helped. I don’t know. I’ll let you know in about an hour or three how it finally finished. This shows that raising the bag lifted the entire batch pretty much w the water level up high in the bag and very little underneath in the kettle
Click to expand...
I brewed a beer like this last year. (I just stumbled onto this thread, I know I'm replying to a post a couple of months old) 50% Vienna malt, 50% wheat flour. I lifted almost the whole wort out with the bag and it drained for a bit and quickly clogged up the mesh in the bag. I just lifted first one corner and then the other (back and forth) and it drained pretty well. I actually didn't lose all that much wort to grain absorption, it just took a little longer to drain and I had to keep manipulating it, and then squeezed it at the end.
 
z-bob said:
I brewed a beer like this last year. (I just stumbled onto this thread, I know I'm replying to a post a couple of months old) 50% Vienna malt, 50% wheat flour. I lifted almost the whole wort out with the bag and it drained for a bit and quickly clogged up the mesh in the bag. I just lifted first one corner and then the other (back and forth) and it drained pretty well. I actually didn't lose all that much wort to grain absorption, it just took a little longer to drain and I had to keep manipulating it, and then squeezed it at the end.
Click to expand...
Movement good. I’m however an avowed non-squeezer. But yeah, movement is good.
 
Cross this one off my bucket-list...

Just brewed (1 lb briess 2-row, 2 lbs "white wheat flour") this for 2 gallons, 1.051. 30 minutes Cascade for 33 ibus. Strangest tasting wort I've ever sampled! :rock:
Anyways, I figure if nothing else, it'll make a good yeast-cake for an upcoming high gravity beer.
 
Hoochin'Fool said:
Cross this one off my bucket-list...

Just brewed (1 lb briess 2-row, 2 lbs "white wheat flour") this for 2 gallons, 1.051. 30 minutes Cascade for 33 ibus. Strangest tasting wort I've ever sampled! :rock:
Anyways, I figure if nothing else, it'll make a good yeast-cake for an upcoming high gravity beer.
Click to expand...
It's going to be a good one!

Weird but good!
 

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