Rate this restaurant beer menu.

[beerjunky828]

I'm going to thow down some local restaurant beer menus and get your reactions for a potential project I'm working on.

Give me your comments and gut reactions and maybe a figure from 1 to 100. I'll post some more later.

Cuisine: Italian

Beers
Tap
Peroni,
Guinness,
Black and Tan,
Mothership Wit,
Bass,
Stella Artois

Bottles
Amstel Light
Newcastle
Grolsch Light
Anchor Steam
Heineken Light
Budweiser
Bud Light
Samuel Adams
Coors Light
Fat tire
Karlovačko
Shiner Hefeweizen
Nikšićko
Red Stripe
Okocim
Four Peaks Kiltlifter (local)
Woodchuck Cider
Heineken
Chimay Red
Corona

I would rate this at around 70.

I would add Blue Moon, Miller Lite, Mich Lite in bottles.
Maybe a couple of Four Peaks on tap (since it is local). I would add Dos equis on tap or some other BMC.
And honestly, (I would enjoy it), but I feel that the Chimay and Cider are out of place. Maybe add some more regional craft brews.

 

[beerjunky828]

For comparison, here's a smaller and better selection at another Italian place in Phoenix (The Parlor). Having it all on tap with an option for a pitcher is bonus.

Sweet 16
(pint / pitcher)
Lightest to Darkest
Bud Light 3.50 / 12
Coors Light 3.50 / 12
Miller High Life 3.50 / 12
Pabst Blue Ribbon 2 / 7
Spaten 4 / 14
Stella Artois 5 / 18
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale 4 / 14
Bass Ale 5 / 18
Alaskan Amber 4 / 14
Lagunitas IPA 4 / 14
Four Peaks Hop Knot 4 / 14
Four Peaks Kilt Lifter 4 / 14
Four Peaks Hefeweizen 4 / 14
Franziskaner Hefeweizen 5 / 18
Smithwick's 5 / 18
Guinness 5 / 18

This one is at least an 83 in my book.
I don't ever see much PBR on tap around here but $7 a pitcher is a steal. That is my BMC choice over anything else

 

[kornkob]

Might be an interesting exercise to try to put together a 80+/100 beer list with the fewest number of entries.

 

[permo]

for me, the mothership wit is just to watery and thin. You certainly don't need black and tan since you have guiness and bass on tap.

Peroni is a very nice little lager, I like it better than stella. I hate to say it but for the wheat beer, maybe go with boulavard wheat or something like that.

The biggest hole in the menu is that there are no hoppy/bitter offerings. I really like to see a Pale Ale or India Pale Ale on draught.

When me and the fam go out to eat, I choose my venue not so much based on food...but very much so based on the draught beer selection. Right now my favorite restaraunt has Summit EPA on tap in 34 oz cold mugs. It is delightfull....

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Interesting to see local beers Karlovačko Pivo and Nikšićko Pivo. Nikšićko Pivo is the better of the two. Karlovačko is owned by Heineken and is entirely uninteresting. Industrial crap lager made in Karlovac, Croatia not too far from Zagreb. If I remember correctly, Nikšićko Pivo is from Montenegro. The pale ("Svetlo") beer is decent but not great. The darker one ("Tamno") is much better, I'd say.

The menu overall is not good, IMHO. Most of those beers on there from far away are not going to be in good shape (except Chimay, which should be great!). For such a long list there's only a handful of beers that are going to be good.

My two cents.

 

[brewt00l]

Give me your comments and gut reactions and maybe a figure from 1 to 100. I'll post some more later.

What perspective are you looking for?

If you look at that menu from the perspective of a serious beer aficionado, it's fairly weak. However average dude on the street might be impressed by the brands they've never heard of and it's definitely a menu that can move units with the general population.

 

[bad coffee]

Might be an interesting exercise to try to put together a 80+/100 beer list with the fewest number of entries.

Are you talking about 80-100 on beer snob's list? A list like that would only appeal to a low % of the population. Sure, it would be a great list, maybe even pair well with the Italian food. But will it sell? It is a business, and beer that's gonna sit around and not move is a money waster. BMC beers are cheap and make great money. How many would you put on a 80-100 list?

Could you see Bud, BL, Miller Lite, PBR being on a 100 list? As a beer snob, could you actually give the list "perfect" with Bud Lite on there?

I can't see going to an Italian joint just for the beer. However, if I went in and they did have the beer list that started the thread, I'd give it a solid 75. Sure, there's some holes, but for Italian, it's a great list.

If it were at a burger bar or a steak house, I'd give it a lower score.

B

 

[hal2814]

Are you guys serious about IPA? In an Italian restaurant? Even back when I was on my IPA kick, I recognized early that it did not pair well with pasta dishes (IMHO, of course). If I'm at an Italian restaurant and I'm going to order a beer off the list, here are the ones I'd seriously consider:

Peroni
Bass
Amstel Light
Sam Adams
Coors Light
Fat Tire
Kiltlifter (Never had it so it would be worth a shot. I'm assuming this is some sort of Scottish Ale which would be under consideration anyway.)

So that's 2 out of 6 for draft and 4 out of 20 for bottles. Everyone has a different taste in beer so those are pretty respectable numbers. Given a score of 50 being completely average, I'd score it 65.

 

[Martin2D]

I don't know whether you created this list or are just doing a survey type study, but this list would make me say "Can I have a water, please?" The only thing I would probably drink on that list is Chimay, but that stuff is usually $10-15 at restaraunts so I don't bother. No offense.

I give it a D- or 25/100.

 

[olllllo]

I have no affiliation with this place at all. Even if I did, I'd want you to feel free about commenting on it.

Some of this is born out of the frustration that I feel when I see great restaurants with beer menus as an afterthought. In many cases, some of the higher end places here do not even put their beer menu on the web.

I'm thinking about approaching some of these places with some targeted criticism and suggestions.

I'll post the food menu here, but please, If you know the place, don't reveal it. This is really just an exercise and I don't think it's fair to single them out.

I'm more interested in your thoughts and using this thread as a sounding board.

On a side note: you can tell that the AB distributor has a heavy hand here, the Eastern European offerings are a result of the chef's roots and the fact that AB has InBev in their aresenal. It almost makes it too easy for the chef.

 

[olllllo]

First
Local McClendon Radishes 7
Banyuls Vinegar, Slovenian Pumpkin Seed Oil, Shallots, Parsley, Plugra Butter, Chives
Bruschetta 10
Grilled Garlic Scented Ciabatta, Marinated Campari Tomatoes, Q.C.O.O., Capers, Kalamata Olives
Daily Pulled Mozzarella 12
House Roasted Pepperonata, Banyuls Vinegar, Q.C.O.O., Basil, Toast Points
Seacat Arugula 8
Vinaigrette of Q.C.O.O., Fresh Squeezed Yuzu, Shallots, Chervil, Hawaiian Sea Salt, Pecorino
Roasted Veal Marrow bones 10
Hawaiian Sea Salt, McClendon Bitter Greens, Tawny Port Syrup
Shrimp Adriatico 9
White wine, Garlic, Parsley, Crushed Tomatoes, Garlic
Washington Mussels 13
Curried Coconut Milk, Calabrian Chili, Grilled Cumin Flatbread, Mint, Basil
Fall Panzanella 10
MJ Bread, Balsamic Marinated Mushrooms, Baby Lettuce, Roasted Butternut Squash, Goat Cheese
With Sonoma Duck Confit 16
Organic Field Greens Salad 9
Organic Pears, Great Hill Farm Blue Cheese, Candied Walnuts, Tawny Port Vinaigrette
Caesar Salad 9
Eggless Garlic Dressing, Polenta Croutons, Asiago Crisp
Charcouterie and Artisan Cheeses
Lardo
Pancetta Choose 2 for $12
Proscuitto Choose 3 for $17
Country Pate Choose 4 for $20
Sopressata
Bresaola
Ask your server for daily selection of Artisan Cheeses

Second
Fernet Branca Short Ribs Tortelloni 18
Braised Organic Greens, Veal Stock, Pecorino Fondue, MJ Artisanal Breadcrumbs
Voodoo Penne 16
Cajun Dusted Organic Chicken Breast, Mixed Bell Peppers, Red Onions, Tomatoes, Cream
Autumn Maccaroncello 14
Butternut Squash and Wild Honey Sauce, Toasted Pepitas, Pecorino, Slovenian Pumpkin oil
Tajarin 18
Maine Diver Scallops, Saffron Cream, Local Chervil, Grilled Yuzu
Toasted Herb Gnocchi 18
Milk Braised Dutch Valley Sweetbreads, Carrots, Apples, Calvados
Fettuccini Alfredo 15
Roasted Free Range Organic Chicken, Heirloom Cauliflower, Pecorino
Agnolotti 16
Grilled Forest Mushroom Ravioli, Herbs, Tomato Cream
Spezzatini of Pork 18
Cauliflower Ravioli, Peas, Organic Carrots, Roasted Heirloom Potato, Fresh Grated Horseradish
Sweetpea Ravioli 16
Braised Baby Artichoke Hearts, Italian Mint Cream, Crispy Peas, MJ Artisanal Breadcrumbs

Third
Farm Strip Steak 29
Forest Mushrooms, House Pancetta, Arugula, Marrow Jus, Fingerling Potatoes
Sonoma Lamb Loin 28
Braised Tepary Beans, Local Carrots & Bee Pollen, Mint Breadcrumbs, Escarole, Game Jus
Maine Diver Scallops 26
Heirloom Potato Puree, Braised Leeks, Puffed Capers, Brown Butter
Day Boat Fish mkt
Line Caught Crispy Skin Fillet, Local Farmers Market Vegetables, Beurre Blanc
Gleason Ranch Pork Porterhouse 27
Pancetta Braised Potatoes and Cabbage, Whole Grain Mustard Jus, Farmers Market Salad
Sonoma Duck Breast 28
Potato Gratin, Butternut Squash and Sphinx Date Ranch Ragout, Sage Jus
Payt-n-Bake® Fried Chicken 14

We Proudly Support Local Farmers
Seacat, McClendon, Maya, Singh, Black Mesa Ranch

 

[Kaner]

I would have to give it a 70.
Yeah it's not the greatest selection, but compared to most of the big chain restaurants that seem to be on every corner now and whose most interesting beer is usually corona or an occational stella, this isn't that bad of a list.

 

[mnadamn]

I was in dc recently and went to the brickskelter... there were 10 of us, 3 of which were homebrewers. The beer list is amazing they advertise 1000 beers in bottle and i dont doubt it but was too busy drinking to count.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Maybe they have some Balkan customers they're catering to with the local beers from here. Dunno. The food menu looks great. That beer menu should be better with that food. If they wanna go with lagers for many of the selection, there are obviously many, many better lagers than most of the crap on their beer menu.

Looks like a great restaurant from the menu! I could drink some Westmalle with some of that food, I think. Duvel too. German lagers too.

 

[olllllo]

So the menu posting should allow for hoppier beers, no?

I initially sad that they are an Italian place. They win best Italian something or other every year, but it is a cafe, hence some of the other offerings that have Med, Euro, influence. Get the red checkered table cloth out of your heads.

 

[olllllo]

The chef has Croatian and Italian roots.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Yeah, I think hoppier beers would work, personally. Hair of the Dog Fred would rock with that menu. I think IPAs *would* work too, at least for me.

The chef's roots explains those beers but they can't be selling a lot of them unless they have Croat or other Balkan folks regularly coming in. (meaning those two Balkan beers)

 

[ohiobrewtus]

50-55

Mostly ordinary in the selection here. There are a few solid options but certainly nothing that I would call spectacular.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I would give it 80 if it were in my town due to the comparison for the fact that it included Chimay. But I imagine in Pheonix you have it better than I. I'd say it's pretty weak.

 

[the_bird]

Food menu >>>>>>>>>>>>> beer menu.

Looks like the chef put a lot of thought into the food menu, but the beer menu was driven by his personal likes rather than what makes sense with the food.

Good restaurants put a lot of thought into their wine offerings, but it's so uncommon to see one put nearly as much effort into their beer selections. "You like beer? Here's your beer!" rather than trying to add different things that might be complementary. It's nice to go to a restaurant and get some really knowledgeable recommendations on the wine, I've been to places where the owners really understand how things work together (even small little places).

I still like the idea of adding something like an SNPA (well-known, always good) and one of the real malty La Rossa beers - hell, sub in those two beers for the Corona and the Red Stripe, and you add at least 10 or 15 points to my score. There are definately entree options that would be well-served by something either more sweet and malt-focused OR something that's got some bitterness and hop character.

What are Corona and Red Stripe doing on the menu, anyway? This isn't a Mexican or Carribean restaurant. It's very likely that someone who might order a Corona if offered will be perfectly cool with a Bud Light or any of the other domestic offerings. I have no problem with a beer menu having some domestic light-lager types available, but what's the point of those two beers with THIS menu?

 

[JKoravos]

By my own standards, I'd give it a 50. Chimay and Anchor are probably the only two I'd really be excited to order, which is two more than most restaurants, maybe the Four Peaks offering as well, since I'm not familiar with it. Newcastle is a standard 'good beer', but it's generally served overcarbed and too cold (and it's in a bottle, which makes it questionable).

 

[the_bird]

So what's the plan, ollllllllllllllllllllllo? Going into business as a restaurant consultant?

 

[z987k]

I'm going to thow down some local restaurant beer menus and get your reactions for a potential project I'm working on.

Give me your comments and gut reactions and maybe a figure from 1 to 100. I'll post some more later.

Cuisine: Italian

Beers
Tap
Peroni, - Macro lager
Guinness,
Black and Tan,
Mothership Wit,
Bass,
Stella Artois - Macro lager

Bottles
Amstel Light - macro lager
Newcastle
Grolsch Light - macro lager
Anchor Steam
Heineken Light - macro lager
Budweiser macro lager
Bud Light - macro lager
Samuel Adams
Coors Light - macro lager
Fat tire
Karlovačko
Shiner Hefeweizen - pure ****(IMO)
Nikšićko
Red Stripe - macro lager
Okocim
Four Peaks Kiltlifter (local)
Woodchuck Cider
Heineken - macro lager
Chimay Red
Corona - macro lager

about half are essentially the same beer, I can find something to drink in the bottle selection, but I never order bottles at a restaurant, I'd be drinking soda/water here. Probably the Bass if I really wanted a beer.
I give it a 25/100, I have a better tap selection at most of the campus bars.

 

[kornkob]

Food menu >>>>>>>>>>>>> beer menu.
What are Corona and Red Stripe doing on the menu, anyway? This isn't a Mexican or Carribean restaurant. It's very likely that someone who might order a Corona if offered will be perfectly cool with a Bud Light or any of the other domestic offerings. I have no problem with a beer menu having some domestic light-lager types available, but what's the point of those two beers with THIS menu?

Perhaps because it sells? I suspect that you'll find that when an American lager drinker wants to buy something a little 'upscale' they'd look for that corona or red stripe-- stella if they have been exposed to it before so they know what it is. If the bar manager notes that people are asking for a specific beer, then having that beer added to the list is a no-brainer.

Generally, people go to a restaurant for the atmosphere and the food (in that order in my experience--- generally people have a hard time getting over the atmosphere even for really good food-- the best italian beef sandwhich in Madison is at a gas station but I'll be damned if I can get anyone to agree that we shoudl eat dinner at Mobile). What's on the beer or wine list is a secondary consideration for most folks. And if they have too many specialty beers on hand they end up with a bunch of beer that never turns over, whcih isn't good for the beer or the bottom line.

 

[commonlaw]

if I saw that beer list I would drink wine (other than perhaps trying the local beer I never had out of curiosity). It is completely un-interesting to me. The menu, however, looks really tasty.

Get some saison dupont in there (always a good food beer), a good hoppy pilsner (like urquell), maybe an APA or IPA, a bock or doppelbock or something similarly malty, a brown on the sweeter side, and a German wheat beer, and then I'd think you'd have a decent start. The recs for duvel and westmalle (both dubbel and tripel) I would also agree with--both I think are better food beers than the chimay. A wit could also be good. If we are going real adventurous, some sour beers are where it is at. Lambic, berliner weiss, other barrel aged sour beer (I recently had goose island's juliet and thought it was a great food beer). Bier de garde would be another style that would mate well to things on that menu, but it may be harder to find.

 

[griffondg]

Menu looks great but the beer selection, particularly the draft beer selection, is weak. 50/100. I would drink wine.

Eric

 

[Beernip]

My impression is that I would give this list a 70 for just any restaurant. For an Italian restaurant the beer selection is excellent. For me when I go to an ethnic restaurant I was it to maintain it's culture and authenticity. In Italy you looking at light lagers. When I was there you are likely to just see three beers on tap. Peroni, Stella, Moretti, etc.. Then you have the wine list.

Would we expect a German restaurant to carry barleywines or Belgium Abbeys?

 

[olllllo]

if I saw that beer list I would drink wine (other than perhaps trying the local beer I never had out of curiosity).

Menu looks great but the beer selection, particularly the draft beer selection, is weak. 50/100. I would drink wine.

Wine is where all the markup is. Could this be the uber-strategy?

Also this made me angry:

We Proudly Support Local Farmers
Seacat, McClendon, Maya, Singh, Black Mesa Ranch

A good portion of the flavor profiles in beer that we are talking about could be supplied by LOCAL BREWERIES!

 

[olllllo]

Here is the Italian beer they should be serving!

http://www.sheltonbrothers.com/beers/beerProfile.asp?BeerID=162

 

[brewt00l]

Also this made me angry:
A good portion of the flavor profiles in beer that we are talking about could be supplied by LOCAL BREWERIES!

We have a fantastic local place that has taken that buy fresh buy local theme to their beer menu and feature only PA craft beer (and yuengling), enough to warrant a mention in the paper's review
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/craig_laban/20071111_Honey.html

 

[pdbreen]

Here is the Italian beer they should be serving!

http://www.sheltonbrothers.com/beers/beerProfile.asp?BeerID=162

Agreed - any place that would take the time to research and source craft beer that fits the style/theme of the restaurant would get very high marks. But, I realize lack of an importer/distributer may make that impossible.

Maybe that's the angle - start a new import business that focuses on sourcing great beers that can be paired with upscale menus. Make it a no-brainer for the restaurants to get it right - or at least make include some interesting offerings. For me, the story behind a beer can be as compelling as the beer itself.

http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/travel/02Beer.html

 

[olllllo]

Panil has a disrto (and a good one) here. People just have to order it.

We have a remarkable wealth of beer available and a local craft scene that is under utilized.

 

[the_bird]

There certainly has been a very big movement in foodie circles to eat locally. Even a place like this dinky little lunch spot in our town of a few thousand people that specifically emphasize how they buy their products locally.

You KINDA hear rumblings of it, but it would be great to see more of an emphasis in the beer community on drinking local product as well. Not sure that enough people - even smart people who run distributors and who run liquor stores and who design menus - are aware of the vitues of locally-crafted product. There's great craft beer all around the country - why ship a beer clear across the globe when there's a better beer, in the same style, that's fresher and more flavorful being made fifty miles down the road?

 

[wildwest450]

Where's the hops?

Amen, slightly upscale or not, there should be one or two hoppy selections.

 

[FreakinA]

Go into business as a beer menu consultant. Give ratings of what they have and write a book. Charge a buttload then and make everyone put good beers on tap.

 

[noblesquirrel]

I was going to comment that there is actually a huge craft boom in Italy right now, doing a lot of barrel aging, sours, farmhouse type beers as well. That list is a disgrace to the customer, in my opinion. There is nothing challenging to someone who wants to be challenged. Being in Chicago, they have really started to understand that the clientele has expectations. If you take away the BMCs and they ask for one, you can recommend something better and closer. I've seen this hundreds of times. With the investment that they obviously have regarding the quality of culinary experience they wish to convey, they shouldn't dumb down the beer list. They should take some risks. I'd give the list a D- for effor and about a 20 overall...

Also, to throw this out there to the folks who think this is quality because it caters to 99% of beer drinkers, there is a reason it caters to 99%, that being lack of education. If they are willing to challenge their palates with food and wine, why not beer?

 

[TexLaw]

I give the menu around a 70. It's solid, well above average (as restaurants go), fairly appropriate to the venue, and just about anyone who walks in will find something they enjoy (even if not what they would most like). It's far from downright "good," though, and even farther from "excellent."

The fact that they have many similar beers is not nearly as important as the variety they do have. The guy is running a business, and he wants to have the beer his customers order. I imagine I could be quite happy going in there and ordering a SNPA, Newcastle, Anchor Steam, Sam Adams, or even Guinness (although more likely with dessert). I do get a bit concerned about seeing a zillion different beers in a place that largely sells wine, though, as I worry about turnover and freshness of the inventory.

It is a shame there is not a good hefeweizen on there. The Shiner is just not good, and the Mothership Wit is not a good substitute. A good German (or German style) hefeweizen often is remarkably good with food.

As far as all the hops go, that's a risky venture for many restaurants. Despite what we see around these parts (being HBT), there aren't a whole heck of a lot of folks that like very hoppy beers, and there are fewer of them that like them with food.

By the way, I don't find a 70 as a good score. It's barely passing. As I said before - solid, better than average (and average would score a 50 -- this ain't school grading), and with selections that would appeal on some level to just about everyone that would walk in. I'd go to this place, but it wouldn't be for the beer.


TL

 

[kornkob]

By the way, I don't find a 70 as a good score. It's barely passing. As I said before - solid, better than average (and average would score a 50 -- this ain't school grading), and with selections that would appeal on some level to just about everyone that would walk in. I'd go to this place, but it wouldn't be for the beer.


TL

Which is the problem with 'ratings' in general-- unless the system is clearly defined the number is meaningless.

Might be interesting to have a discussion where developing a 'beer menu' rating system is the goal.

 

[the_bird]

The fact that they have many similar beers is not nearly as important as the variety they do have. The guy is running a business, and he wants to have the beer his customers order. I imagine I could be quite happy going in there and ordering a SNPA, Newcastle, Anchor Steam, Sam Adams, or even Guinness (although more likely with dessert). I do get a bit concerned about seeing a zillion different beers in a place that largely sells wine, though, as I worry about turnover and freshness of the inventory.

There's no SNPA on there, or equivalent. Several of us have mentioned that as a pretty bad oversights. APA is a pretty mainstream style - not having something like an SNPA (or a locally-brewed pale ale) available is worth probably ten points on this scale to me.

 

[DRoyLenz]

It's been said before (but not by me ) so I'm going to say it in my own words.

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being 'Only serves Bud Light directly from the can', 10 being 'Draft and Bottle Menu that caters to all global regions, microbrews and styles of beer' and 5 being average, I'd give this a 6. Their going to have an impressive looking list, but when you actually drill down in to it, you realize there isn't much variety at all. Almost all light lagers.

I'd ask 'from what perspective?' But you came to HBT to ask for our opinion, so I'm going to give you my opinion as a beer-lover, home-brewer, and HBTer. I would pass this place up, and not think twice about it. When I'm looking for a good restaurant, I almost always go on the web to find out what beers they have available. If they don't have a beer list on the menu, that usually tells me they don't care enough about their beer to advertise it, so I don't bother. If I saw this list on the menu, I'd move on.

What I would really like to see is if they took their Four Peaks presence one step forward. I think it would be very cool if they had a good relationship with the brewery (or at least the distro company) and had MANY of their beers on tap, including a few rotating seasonals. Also make sure the waitstaff and bartenders are well informed on AT LEAST those beers, and are able to make pairing suggestions, and talk about the beers to people who are interested. It'd be nice if they could have that kind of knowledge on all the beers, but that may be asking a lot of most restaurants. People like to consume local products. If I were to go in to a restaurant, ask for a recommendation, and the server pointed out that they carried a large selection of a local brewery, I would be MUCH more inclined to experiment with that.

But, it sounds like they are more concerned with their wine and food (which is fine, but not for discussion IMO on HBT).