Raising mead final gravity with malt

[MrFancyPlants]

I realize that technically it may not be a mead with malt added, but if I were to say, add some c30 in with the honey and calculated the final gravity to be somewhere near where beer final gravity is per the abv would it drink more like a beer?
Would the malt contribution to the gravity be able to balance some hop bitterness?

thanks!

 

[bernardsmith]

First of all a mead that includes malted barley is still a mead. It's called a braggot. Of course, if the flavor was more beer than mead you might call that a honey beer. But your question is a little confusing: would it drink more link a beer? It's not going to be doing any drinking. You are and if the ABV is around 3-5% you could pour and drink that like a beer. If the final ABV would be 10- 15% then drinking that by the pint might not be a great idea. But that said, it is hard for me to imagine that you can make a braggot that is around 3-5% ABV. A pound of honey used to make a gallon of mead would give you an ABV of about 4.5%. Add , say a pound of DME and you are close to 9% ABV. Use less than a pound of honey and you don't have any honey flavor as the flavor of honey... is... in the honey, and you can only dilute the honey so much before all flavor has been diluted.

Not clear where the hops come in. They would add bitterness if you boiled them for an hour. Boil them for 10 -20 minutes and you will have more hop flavor than acidity and if you simply dry hopped a week to 10 days before bottling you would enjoy the aromas of the hops but not very much more. But that said, any and all residual sweetness is a balance to bitterness. and as malt has about 10 -15 points of unfermentable sweetness per pound of DME per gallon of beer then, yes, the bitterness MAY be balanced by the sweetness BUT that will obviously depend on how much acidity of how much hops you are adding vs the final gravity of your braggot.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I’m starting to understand my misconception. I know adding a lot of specialty malts makes a brew sweeter, but playing around with the brewers friend recipes, they don’t add so much more final gravity.
my idea was to make a ~6% braggot, and boost the final gravity up to1.010, so that it could balance a hardy hop stand. However as you pointed out, it becomes more of a honey beer at that point, even with specialty malts.
I could maybe boost the gravity with some lactose maybe?

also BF was, I think, acting funny with the honey. It was treating “raw honey” like a malt. I had to try sugar to bring final gravity down to 0.000. It makes me question the accuracy final gravity contribution of specialty malts.

 

[bracconiere]

https://www.govets.com/index.php/si...9-S-51cuMaskRQYUBWzOlGFj1ZCHgMFhoCmJgQAvD_BwE
it's on sale with free shipping! 25g! (but maybe you can find something similar for sane people....)

It's not going to be doing any drinking

LOL


edit: or maybe something like this?

https://www.laballey.com/products/d...7IbqIjxMzR3Mz7WQyXYv016mGAj0AjVxoCaF0QAvD_BwE

 

[bernardsmith]

I’m starting to understand my misconception. I know adding a lot of specialty malts makes a brew sweeter, but playing around with the brewers friend recipes, they don’t add so much more final gravity.
my idea was to make a ~6% braggot, and boost the final gravity up to1.010, so that it could balance a hardy hop stand. However as you pointed out, it becomes more of a honey beer at that point, even with specialty malts.
I could maybe boost the gravity with some lactose maybe?

also BF was, I think, acting funny with the honey. It was treating “raw honey” like a malt. I had to try sugar to bring final gravity down to 0.000. It makes me question the accuracy final gravity contribution of specialty malts.

Two points.

1. I think you are confusing he density of a liquid (specific gravity) with its fermentability. IF - IF all the sugars in solution ARE fermentable and the density IS ONLY a measure of the sugars in solution, then SG is a measure of the POTENTIAL ABV. But add additional compounds (including non-fermentable sugars and your SG is not directly correlated to the potential ABV. and

2. I am no expert at brewing , but methinks that "specialty malts" add flavors not used by brewers as fermentable sugars. They are so cooked that enzymes cannot convert the carbs from the grains into simpler sugars that the yeast can ferment. They are there to add color or flavor. If you simply buy a pound of specialty malt grind it and pitch the yeast it won't ferment, will it? I add chocolate malts to my mead to give it a better chocolate flavor than cocoa nibs.
You can certainly boost the gravity by adding lactose BUT the yeast you will use to make a mead (or wine or bread) - all varieties of Saccharomyces cerevisiae cannot ferment lactose. So the lactose will add sweetness (and some flavor) but be sure to tell anyone who is being offered a glass that it contains lactose: lactose intolerance can result in great discomfort for those who consume this sugar and who suffer from this condition.
Lactose is a complex sugar that you can break down with lactase into glucose and galactose - sugars that yeast CAN ferment, but absent that enzyme, I don't know of any yeast that we have access to that can ferment lactose. It ain't nearly as sweet as table sugar (I think about 1/3 as sweet).

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Two points.

1. I think you are confusing he density of a liquid (specific gravity) with its fermentability. IF - IF all the sugars in solution ARE fermentable and the density IS ONLY a measure of the sugars in solution, then SG is a measure of the POTENTIAL ABV. But add additional compounds (including non-fermentable sugars and your SG is not directly correlated to the potential ABV. and

2. I am no expert at brewing , but methinks that "specialty malts" add flavors not used by brewers as fermentable sugars. They are so cooked that enzymes cannot convert the carbs from the grains into simpler sugars that the yeast can ferment. They are there to add color or flavor. If you simply buy a pound of specialty malt grind it and pitch the yeast it won't ferment, will it? I add chocolate malts to my mead to give it a better chocolate flavor than cocoa nibs.
You can certainly boost the gravity by adding lactose BUT the yeast you will use to make a mead (or wine or bread) - all varieties of Saccharomyces cerevisiae cannot ferment lactose. So the lactose will add sweetness (and some flavor) but be sure to tell anyone who is being offered a glass that it contains lactose: lactose intolerance can result in great discomfort for those who consume this sugar and who suffer from this condition.
Lactose is a complex sugar that you can break down with lactase into glucose and galactose - sugars that yeast CAN ferment, but absent that enzyme, I don't know of any yeast that we have access to that can ferment lactose. It ain't nearly as sweet as table sugar (I think about 1/3 as sweet).

I think I am on track as far as trying to attain higher final gravity, after fermentation.. I want residual flavor and sweetness to balance some hop bitterness in my braggot.
My next question would be, what specialty malts offer the highest amounts of unfermentable sugars.
I was planning on roasting the honey, like a bochet. Adding some aromatic malt and some special B… I’ll go easy with the hop stand . Use a Kveik yeast and toasted oak staves mellowed by a couple previous pressure ferments. If it is too harsh I can add some orval dregs and/or blend it with my house ESB. I like to target 6-7% with my beers, but maybe I should go a little harder for this braggot, if I plan on oaking and blending? Maybe 9% for a 5 gallon batch.

 

[bracconiere]

I was planning on roasting the honey, like a bochet. Adding some aromatic malt and some special B… I’ll go easy with the hop stand . Use a Kveik yeast and toasted oak staves mellowed by a couple previous pressure ferments.

damn, you sold me! sounds awesome!

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I brewed the bouchet and pressure fermented on the dregs from my last ESB. I was going to add in the specialty grains in a second phase of fermentation and hopefully clean up any slowness of the mead fermentation.
However, I think I kind of screwed up when I put the order for the specialty grains with my friend who lives near a brew shop. I got 8# of Special B. I was found some reading and a little concerned 8# vs 12.5# will be overpowering.
So instead, I think I’ll do a smash with the special B in a separate (5G) keg, and I can blend to taste. I am curious how terrible a Special B smash will be on it’s own.

 

[bracconiere]

I brewed the bouchet and pressure fermented on the dregs from my last ESB. I was going to add in the specialty grains in a second phase of fermentation and hopefully clean up any slowness of the mead fermentation.
However, I think I kind of screwed up when I put the order for the specialty grains with my friend who lives near a brew shop. I got 8# of Special B. I was found some reading and a little concerned 8# vs 12.5# will be overpowering.
So instead, I think I’ll do a smash with the special B in a separate (5G) keg, and I can blend to taste. I am curious how terrible a Special B smash will be on it’s own.

i was going to say it won't convert...but had a doh moment, it was mashed in the kernel....and i'd guess a special b smash like that would be good in a 16oz cup of coffee, about 1/4-1/2 cup? gotta get the morning started right

 

[DBhomebrew]

I like Special B. At 2-4%.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I don’t know if I used any of the special B in this bochet/braggot, but it is hitting its stride at about a year old. It cleared out quickly with the ESB yeast cake, fully fermenting quickly under heat and pressure. I got a lot of orange from the kveik. And some sweetness whether it was from a C malt or the burnt honey. I may have to try this again and put a bigger batch on storage to age.