Questions Regarding Bottle Carbonation

[shadowrayz]

Hello Everyone ~ I had an issue with my first Amber Ale. After fermentation completed, I racked to my secondary carboy so it could settle out over a couple of weeks. After all was said and done, I created my 3/4 cup sugar to 2 cups water Corn Sugar solution and placed it in my bottling bucket (after it had cooled, of course). I moved the brew from the secondary to the bottling bucket and blended with the corn sugar. I bottled my beer. Even after 6 weeks sitting covered and around 72 degrees, the carbonation is very poor. I am about to bottle my Mexican Cerveza and I do not want the same thing happening. What is the trick? What the heck did I do wrong?

Thanks in advance!

 

[brew_darrymore]

My rule is 0.8 - 1.0 oz of corn sugar per gallon, as I like my beer well carbonated. I boil the corn sugar in 1-2 cups of water for 5 minutes. Then cool it and add it to a bottling bucket and rack the beer on top of it.

Sounds like you're following the same steps.

There are 2 possible reasons for your beer to be undercarbed:

- not enough corn sugar - what's your batch size? Also, I don't go by volume but by weight in terms of how much corn sugar to use. There are many online calculators that will tell you how much sugar you need to add to achieve a certain level of carbonation;

- the second possible reason is the seal of your beer caps. What bottles are you using? You could test for leakage by putting a few bottles upside down on their caps for a few days. Do that in a bucket, since they may leak. alternatively, some people choose to tie up a balloon on the bottleneck and see if it will start inflating over time. That will confirm your CO2 is leaking.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Hello Everyone ~ I had an issue with my first Amber Ale. After fermentation completed, I racked to my secondary carboy so it could settle out over a couple of weeks. After all was said and done, I created my 3/4 cup sugar to 2 cups water Corn Sugar solution and placed it in my bottling bucket (after it had cooled, of course). I moved the brew from the secondary to the bottling bucket and blended with the corn sugar. I bottled my beer. Even after 6 weeks sitting covered and around 72 degrees, the carbonation is very poor. I am about to bottle my Mexican Cerveza and I do not want the same thing happening. What is the trick? What the heck did I do wrong?

Thanks in advance!

First, I am assuming the 3/4 cup of corn (or is it cane) sugar is for a 5-gallon batch, correct?

Outside of no specific mention of stirring the beer and priming solution for proper mixing, I do not see anything wrong with what you listed.

This leads me to suggest you check your capper. If it is not giving a good, solid crimp to the cap, the CO2 will leak out.

 

[shadowrayz]

Thanks!

- I am currently doing 5 gallon batches.

- I will look up one of the calculators online and see what they calculate to be.

- As for the bottle caps leaking, they are not. When I crack them open, they do give off a bit of pressure (low) and there is smoke.

 

[shadowrayz]

First, I am assuming the 3/4 cup of corn (or is it cane) sugar is for a 5-gallon batch, correct?

Outside of no specific mention of stirring the beer and priming solution for proper mixing, I do not see anything wrong with what you listed.

This leads me to suggest you check your capper. If it is not giving a good, solid crimp to the cap, the CO2 will leak out.

Thanks.

Corn Sugar. I blend the beer and the sugar solution in the bucket.

 

[ThreeSheetz]

It sounds as if you are making carbon dioxide but you’ve not mentioned refrigeration. When the beer is warm, most of the gas is in the space at the top of the bottle. If you put some of your bottles in the refrigerator for two days a lot of that gas will migrate into solution carbonating the beer.

 

[shadowrayz]

It sounds as if you are making carbon dioxide but you’ve not mentioned refrigeration. When the beer is warm, most of the gas is in the space at the top of the bottle. If you put some of your bottles in the refrigerator for two days a lot of that gas will migrate into solution carbonating the beer.

I have done that as well...

 

[sky4meplease]

Cold crashed?

 

[shadowrayz]

Cold crashed?

I don't think that would have been the case. I kept the bottles at room temperature (70 - 74) and covered from the light. Once a week, I would take a bottle and place it in the refrigerator for 24 hours and then crack it open. carbonation stayed the same from week three through week six.

I just finished bottling my Mexican Cerveza. 3/4 corn sugar to a cup and a half of water. I made sure that it was blended really well before I bottled them. I will keep you all informed as to what happens after two weeks.

Cheer!

 

[sky4meplease]

The reason I ask if your beer was cold crashed is that it is possible to settle out virtually all yeast that you would need for consuming your corn sugar.
High flocculating yeast can settle completely in mere hours and I have seen beer lagered for three weeks at 40 degrees have no yeast in suspension at bottling time. I have verified these findings with a microscope. This is why it is not uncommon to add yeast at bottling time for well lagered beers. Otherwise you would need to intentionally suck up some yeast from the bottom of the fermentation vessel to facilitate natural carbonation.
It is possible the only carbonation you have is what was forced into solution from cold crashing.
Additionally, I would start weighing your corn sugar. Measuring by volume can produce varying results.

 

[cclhuzhou]

It sounds as if you are making carbon dioxide but you’ve not mentioned refrigeration

 

[shadowrayz]

OK - After discussions on the forum here, I went ahead and created a video of me bottling my Mexican Cerveza: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAzwV76wIQ[/ame]
After reviewing the video, a question came up from one of my friends who is a home brewer. Does soaking the caps for a long time in Star San cause the seal to deteriorate?

 

[shadowrayz]

It sounds as if you are making carbon dioxide but you’ve not mentioned refrigeration

I would refrigerate for a couple of days before opening them.

 

[sboyajian]

I see you added the sugar to your water, then added to the bottling bucket.. did you actually dissolve the sugar?

When I was bottling, I found if I didn't boil the water and fully dissolve the sugar, and just added sugar or tried to dissolve in cold water, it left about half of the corn sugar at the bottom of the bottling bucket leaving me way undercarbed.

Might be worth the extra 10 minutes to boil your sugar in water to completely dissolve. Then cool in an ice bath and put it at the bottom of your bottling bucket. Then rack your beer on top of it. The whirlpool created by the siphoning should be enough to mix the sugar solution.

 

[brew_darrymore]

I watched your video and your process looks fine to me. I still suspect that it may be your capper/caps causing the lack of carbonation in your previous batch due to a CO2 leak.

The test for the cerveza will be that EZ cap bottle that you filled towards the end of your video. I only use EZ cap bottles and I've never had any CO2 leaks so far.

Keep rocking! :rockin:

 

[shadowrayz]

I see you added the sugar to your water, then added to the bottling bucket.. did you actually dissolve the sugar?

When I was bottling, I found if I didn't boil the water and fully dissolve the sugar, and just added sugar or tried to dissolve in cold water, it left about half of the corn sugar at the bottom of the bottling bucket leaving me way undercarbed.

Might be worth the extra 10 minutes to boil your sugar in water to completely dissolve. Then cool in an ice bath and put it at the bottom of your bottling bucket. Then rack your beer on top of it. The whirlpool created by the siphoning should be enough to mix the sugar solution.

I boiled up the water, took it off the heat, added the corn sugar, dissolved it completely, and then boiled it for 10 minutes. After cooling, I added it to the bucket and then racked on top if it.

 

[sboyajian]

Then I got nothing.

Maybe it's just stubborn. Hopefully this second batch does the trick for you.

 

[shadowrayz]

I watched your video and your process looks fine to me. I still suspect that it may be your capper/caps causing the lack of carbonation in your previous batch due to a CO2 leak.

The test for the cerveza will be that EZ cap bottle that you filled towards the end of your video. I only use EZ cap bottles and I've never had any CO2 leaks so far.

Keep rocking! :rockin:

I guess that will be the test with the Grolsch bottles. If after the conditioning is completed, I will place a couple of each (capped and EZ Cap) of the bottles in the fridge for a couple of days and see what happens. :rockin:

 

[shadowrayz]

Then I got nothing.

Maybe it's just stubborn. Hopefully this second batch does the trick for you.

It has to be one of two things -
- Capper is not sealing correctly.
- I am leaving the caps in the StarSan too long.

I will test and find out in a little over a week. Stay Tuned...

 

[lowtones84]

Since I don't usually use o2 barrier caps, I typically dump all the caps I will need when bottling a batch into the bucket of starsan and retrieve then as needed in small groups. Haven't had an issue with that. At the proper dilution, starsan shouldn't have any effect on the integrity of a cap's seal.

 

[shadowrayz]

Since I don't usually use o2 barrier caps, I typically dump all the caps I will need when bottling a batch into the bucket of starsan and retrieve then as needed in small groups. Haven't had an issue with that. At the proper dilution, starsan shouldn't have any effect on the integrity of a cap's seal.

I agree... We shall see.

 

[fuelish]

Caps don't need to be "wet" with Starsan for very long, like 1 minute....I toss my caps in a pan of Starsan, let 'em sit for 30 seconds to a minute, fish them out with a small strainer, good to go....and like lowtones said above, if Starsan is mixed to proper dilution, it should not affect the seal

 

[PhillyMike]

How many of these bottles have you opened? Sometimes the sugar is not mixed well and the bottles towards the end of your bottling may not have much carbonation.

I would also wait. Sometimes it takes longer than the traditional "few weeks" for a beer to carb. Some yeast are simply sluggish. Try again in a month and see if the carb levels have increased.

 

[shadowrayz]

How many of these bottles have you opened? Sometimes the sugar is not mixed well and the bottles towards the end of your bottling may not have much carbonation.

I would also wait. Sometimes it takes longer than the traditional "few weeks" for a beer to carb. Some yeast are simply sluggish. Try again in a month and see if the carb levels have increased.

I am almost through all of them. They have lasted over 8 weeks. I started drinking them around 4 weeks. Carbonation hasn't changed throughout the month of drinking them. I have 4 left of the originals.

 

[PhillyMike]

Out of curiosity, what was the OG on your beer?

 

[shadowrayz]

out of curiosity, what was the og on your beer?

og = 1.054
fg = 1.010

 

[PhillyMike]

How new was the yeast packet?

Reason why I ask is it sounds like the yeast just ran out of steam and didn't have enough left to produce good carbonation.

I hope your newest beer carbonates properly. Keep us informed.

 

[shadowrayz]

How new was the yeast packet?

Reason why I ask is it sounds like the yeast just ran out of steam and didn't have enough left to produce good carbonation.

I hope your newest beer carbonates properly. Keep us informed.

The yeast packet was fine...

 

[Unconnected]

I am intersted to see how this goes. I have wondered about the seal on my bottles. I do not get much carbonation, but I get some. I also think that my caps come off really easy when opening (compared to comercially capped). I might have to try the 'upside-down' bottle test. I might be leaking above a certian PSI...

 

[shadowrayz]

OK - I cheated a bit on testing my bottles. I did not wait two weeks.

My bottles are well carbonated in just a week! The beer is a bit young but takes really good. I guess it was not the capper or the soaking of the caps. The only thing I can think of is that I racked to a secondary and the yeast was not enough to continue in the bottles (hence, the sweetness).

Things I will change (after the fact):

- Not soaking the caps for more than a minute in case the seal is affected.
- Not racking to a secondary unless it is really needed (in-between beers vs an All Grain or lager type).

...on to the next one...

 

[brew_darrymore]

Looks delicious! Glad to hear it's carbonated!

 

[PhillyMike]

Glad to hear brew #2 was good. Continued success!