Question about using a secondary

[hendrixsrv630]

My last batch i let sit in the primary for like 12 days before going into the secondary...it was stuck for the first 4. I just brewed a four peaks hop knot ipa and the instructions said to put in secondary after 4-5 days. i know it is sapposed to finish fermenting in the secondary but do i suck up some of the yeast at the bottom or is there enough yeast in the beer itself to continue fermenting in the secondary.

 

[TTB-J]

There's likely enough yeast in suspension to finish it off, but it will take a lot longer to finish than if you just left it in the primary with all of the yeast. I suggest not transferring it to secondary until it has reached the projected final gravity. In fact, I would suggest not transferring it to secondary at all and just letting it sit and clear in the primary and then going straight to the bottling bucket. But, whatever you do, I don't see much benefit in transferring it off the lions share of yeast if there is still fermentation to be done.

 

[BendBrewer]

i know it is sapposed to finish fermenting in the secondary ............

Who told you that?

Those kits might have good ingredients but they have ****ty instructions.

 

[hendrixsrv630]

Who told you that?

Those kits might have good ingredients but they have ****ty instructions.

the guys at the brew store told me that not the instructions. i want to go to a secondary for clarity. i like a clear beer.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Who told you that?

Those kits might have good ingredients but they have ****ty instructions.

Second that! Most of those kits say primary is 3-5 days!!?? In my experience, even a low gravity ale should stay in primary at least 10-14 days before racking into secondary. I've left 'em as long as 3 weeks before reaching final gravity and transferring. I only use secondary to age and dry hop my ales and rarely drop more than .001 in secondary.
You can make good beer with kits, but I wouldn't recommend following their fermentation guidelines. They tend to be very vague and aren't written considering the individuals own brewhouse conditions.

 

[laiced]

Are you racking onto an additive? Most of the peeps here will tell you not to transfer to secondary unless you are racking onto fruit or other additives...or if you need your primary for your next batch :rockin:

My first batch ever, I had to rack to secondary on top of apricot, and it wasn't hard or anything, I just believe that most people see it as a somewhat unnecessary step that introduces the risk of contamination.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

the guys at the brew store told me that not the instructions. i want to go to a secondary for clarity. i like a clear beer.

Secondary will clarify your beer, but it's best to finish fermenting in primary first. Your beer will clarify and be ready to bottle or dry hop much faster this way.

 

[hendrixsrv630]

also this isnt a kit...im brewing off a recipe they had at the brew store. it came with instructions.

 

[BendBrewer]

i like a clear beer.

Me too. I still don't use a Secondary though. Not sure why you think moving it an extra time is going to make it any more clear but knock yourself out.

I have found that time makes beer clear. Not moving it from container to container.

 

[BendBrewer]

also this isnt a kit...im brewing off a recipe they had at the brew store. it came with instructions.

I am sure it did. I don't think you will find too many people around here that would suggest you follow them though.

 

[dcp27]

me too. I still don't use a secondary though. Not sure why you think moving it an extra time is going to make it any more clear but knock yourself out.

I have found that time makes beer clear. Not moving it from container to container.

+1

 

[edmanster]

Me too. I still don't use a Secondary though. Not sure why you think moving it an extra time is going to make it any more clear but knock yourself out.

I have found that time makes beer clear. Not moving it from container to container.

+1... Time makes clear beer... you will find after a couple batches that instructions don't always apply.. a book and simple reading is all you need...

 

[hendrixsrv630]

+1... Time makes clear beer... you will find after a couple batches that instructions don't always apply.. a book and simple reading is all you need...

heres what my book says: homebrewing for dummies page 111-112

at the beginner level, taking the freshly fermented beer out of the pirmary fermener was necessary not just because the initial fermentation ws over, but also because all those little yeasties, fresh from a gluttonous fast, were about to start decomposing. thats right, enzymes in the sugar-starved yeast begin to break down the yeast cells. this horrific event is called yeast autolysis. autolysis can impart a slugury, rubbery stench and flavor ito your beer. so leaving your fresh, yong beer sitting on that bulging layer of self-destructing yeast dregs is akin to allowing your child to wallow with the pigs in the mud, and you dont want to smell either of them. racking your beer over to a secondary fermenter vessel effectively leaves most of the sedimented yeast and other organic mater behind. so if bottling the beer after one week worked before, why cant it now? it sill can, but now your introducing more ingredients into the brewpot, the added flavors and textures ni your beer need more time to blend together. by allowing the beer to undergo a secondary fermentation, you pormote a mellowing process that makes a noticeable imporvment in your beer.

 

[BendBrewer]

Yeah, but most of us around here aren't 'Dummies'.

Do you want help or do you want to argue?

 

[dcp27]

your book is old, yeast dont autolysis on the homebrew scale that quickly, at least not anymore that we dont have $hitty yeast. i dont think john palmer and jamil would advocate skipping secondary if this was an issue
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/secondary-not-john-palmer-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/

 

[hendrixsrv630]

Yeah, but most of us around here aren't 'Dummies'.

Do you want help or do you want to argue?

no arguing at all...just saying this is why i thought secondary was so important.

 

[bernerbrau]

no arguing at all...just saying this is why i thought secondary was so important.

A lot of older books will recommend it. Even How to Brew by John Palmer, which many around here regard as the homebrewer's Bible, recommends a secondary phase in its older editions. The reasons cited were generally preventing yeast autolysis, and for clarity.

In the last few years, the homebrew community is coming to a consensus that any potential benefits are negated by the risks. Most of us just don't do secondary unless dry hopping, adding fruit, oaking, or otherwise adding ingredients to the fully fermented beer. And some of these "long primary" beers go on to win awards.

And just FYI, here's an Oktoberfest I recently brewed... without a secondary:

 

[bernerbrau]

BendBrewer, hassling the noobs I see. Maybe you should tell him about hop bursting

 

[BendBrewer]

I brew Pales and IPAs almost exclusively. I typically ferment in the primary for 3-4 weeks and then keg. Waiting longer and ditching the secondary step are things I have learned to do over time and the quality improvements to my beer are proof enough for me to continue doing so. If you want clear beer, a little Irish Moss and a lot of time will get you there.

 

[BendBrewer]

BendBrewer, hassling the noobs I see. Maybe you should tell him about hop bursting

 

[paraordnance]

heres what my book says: homebrewing for dummies page 111-112

I would throw that book out. Seriously. I don't even secondary my lagers anymore, no really, after 2-3 weeks primary, I lager my beer right on the yeast cake for additional 3-4 weeks believe it or not all in same vessel. That autolysis crap is something I'm not experienced yet.

 

[hendrixsrv630]

If you want clear beer, a little Irish Moss and a lot of time will get you there.

okay thanks for the help guys! i did add irish moss but i strained the hops out of the wort while dumping it in the primary im sure all the irish moss with it...

 

[bernerbrau]

okay thanks for the help guys! i did add irish moss but i strained the hops out of the wort while dumping it in the primary im sure all the irish moss with it...

Nope. The carrageenan in the irish moss was absorbed into the wort and has done its job already, by helping to precipitate break proteins.

 

[hendrixsrv630]

well just by looking at the wort while it was cooling down before i pitched the yeast it was noticably alot cleaner looking. dont know if that had to do with straining the hops out or not. so what im hear from you guys is no secondary...leave in the primary 2 weeks or more

 

[bernerbrau]

so what im hear from you guys is no secondary...leave in the primary 2 weeks or more

For best results you'll probably want to leave it in there for at least a month. The longer you leave it, the clearer it will get.

 

[osagedr]

And just FYI, here's an Oktoberfest I recently brewed... without a secondary:

You lagered it on the yeast cake?

What's the SRM on that beer? It's probably just the picture but it looks a bit light for a 3B.

 

[bernerbrau]

You lagered it on the yeast cake?

What's the SRM on that beer? It's probably just the picture but it looks a bit light for a 3B.

17.7 SRM. Lagered right on the yeast cake.

 

[osagedr]

Nice!

 

[enohcs]

So everyone that is skipping secondary, does this apply to conical users? Do you find better results just leaving the yeast for 3 weeks or more before moving to a keg?

Are you cold crashing?

What about harvesting? Do you still have healthy yeast available for washing and storage after that many weeks?

 

[HappyHeadBrew]

I have found that time makes beer clear. Not moving it from container to container.

Amen! Though I would also add that cold crashing really helps too. I haven't used a secondary since my second batch, and I will likely never use one again unless racking onto an additive. I typically let my beers sit in primary at fermentation temp for 13 days, cold crash for 1 or 2 days (40F or so), rack to kegs, then let those carbonate in the kegerator for at least 1 week, at which point they are pretty clear. After about 3 weeks kegged, clarity is superb!