Protein Rest Test

[thethirstyweasel]

I have searched and have failed to find where someone has run side by side comparison in order to confirm that a protein rest helps head retention when using well modified malts. I have never done a protein rest in my mash regime. I have made pilsners using both weyermann and durst malts by single infusion mashes and got very good head formation and foam stability.

I am considering doing a test using something like pale ale malt well modified low protein and doing a regular single infusion mash and then another incorporating a protein rest and compare the results. Then maybe doing something with another malt such as 6 row which is high protein and well modified and running the same experiment.

I wouldn't argue that if one is using under modified malt that a protein rest is necessary.

I have seen at least one case where I believe the brewer incorporated a protein rest on well modified malt and his beer lacked both body and head retention. I'm not saying it can't be done either its clear from this web site and others that people have both great body and foam stability and use a protein rest, I'd just like to find proof that it is actually worth effort.

If someone could has done this please direct me to this.
Thanks,
Weez

 

[specharka]

I have only ever used a protein rest on brews with a large adjunct component (usually wheat) in excess of 30%. From my understanding, the purpose of a protein rest is to isomerize the long chain proteins so they settle out of the break material. Never had an issue with body or head retention resulting from a single-step infusion mash.

Unless you're using a high proportion of 6-row malt or adjunct, what would be the purpose for using a protein rest?

 

[dmtaylor]

The couple of times I ever did a protein rest, the beer was very thin, watery, lifeless, with poor head retention. I did this with a witbier and the result was a crystal clear headless version. Not good. I don't do protein rests at all anymore, never ever.

That being said, my protein rests were about 10-15 minutes at about 122 F. I've heard others state that you really need to shoot for the high end, like 131 F, for just 5 minutes and no more, that this actually improves body and head retention.

I have my doubts. But thought I should bring it up in case you might be interested in experimenting. If you do, please report your parameters and results to all of us!

 

[thethirstyweasel]

The couple of times I ever did a protein rest, the beer was very thin, watery, lifeless, with poor head retention. I did this with a witbier and the result was a crystal clear headless version. Not good. I don't do protein rests at all anymore, never ever.

That being said, my protein rests were about 10-15 minutes at about 122 F. I've heard others state that you really need to shoot for the high end, like 131 F, for just 5 minutes and no more, that this actually improves body and head retention.

I have my doubts. But thought I should bring it up in case you might be interested in experimenting. If you do, please report your parameters and results to all of us!

I think I am going to do some experiments, but not for a while yet. I need to re-establish a pipeline and intend to brew normally a premium bitter Thursday.
I will post my results here though. My vision for this experiment is to do some SMASH with really low alpha hops with no flavor additions, really boring summertime beers. Thank you for the tip, it is also what I've read on here that most advocating the protein rest for head retention do tend to op for the higher end of the range and a relatively short 15 min rest.

 

[thethirstyweasel]

I have only ever used a protein rest on brews with a large adjunct component (usually wheat) in excess of 30%. From my understanding, the purpose of a protein rest is to isomerize the long chain proteins so they settle out of the break material. Never had an issue with body or head retention resulting from a single-step infusion mash.

Unless you're using a high proportion of 6-row malt or adjunct, what would be the purpose for using a protein rest?

There are quite a few that advocate that a protein rest really enhances their head retention. I went to a small brewery sometime back and the guys brews were really good tasting but they had no head retention and were very thin, he told me he always does a protein rest. This got me to thinking that this was his problem.
Also I always reserve the right to be wrong, if it really does work and will improve my beer I want to do it. If its a waste time or is historical or just looks cool I'm not interested.
cheers,
Weez

 

[specharka]

There are quite a few that advocate that a protein rest really enhances their head retention. I went to a small brewery sometime back and the guys brews were really good tasting but they had no head retention and were very thin, he told me he always does a protein rest. This got me to thinking that this was his problem.
Also I always reserve the right to be wrong, if it really does work and will improve my beer I want to do it. If its a waste time or is historical or just looks cool I'm not interested.
cheers,
Weez

I think you might be on target. I'm gonna quote the Bible, er...John Palmer, on this one:

The typical Protein Rest at 120 - 130°F is used to break up proteins which might otherwise cause chill haze and can improve the head retention. This rest should only be used when using moderately-modified malts, or when using fully modified malts with a large proportion (>25%) of unmalted grain, e.g. flaked barley, wheat, rye, or oatmeal. Using this rest in a mash consisting mainly of fully modified malts would break up the proteins responsible for body and head retention and result in a thin, watery beer.

 

[wobdee]

All I brew are lagers and I've been going back and forth with and without protein rests and this is what I have found.

A 122° rest is worst for head retention. Beer clarity is excellent.

131-133 is OK and produces good head but most of the time it lacks a little retention or lacing. Beer is clear but not as clear as a lower rest.

No protein rest, head seams to be best but beer not quite as clear.

I brew all my beers with well modified Best Pils base malt no finings other than whirlflock, other malts could have different results. My next mash schedules are incorporating a low 103° mash in temp followed by a slow rise to Beta then Alpha temps. I figure running through all the different enzyme temps at a quicker pace may not harm head and help clarity and lautering.

 

[specharka]

There are other ways to increase clarity and preclude chill haze. Cold crashing provides all the benefits of clearing the beer without diminishing head retention and body. And if you can stomach it, isinglass (fish gelatin) will promote sedimentation of chill haze proteins even more. Personally I've never been offended by chill haze. Commercial brewers go great lengths to promote beer clarity for aesthetic reasons. I don't even label my beers -- who am I trying to impress?

From what I remember, the last beer I performed a protein rest on (a Deschutes Chainbreakers White IPA clone) was able to achieve good head retention, but it definitely lacked somewhat in body, and that was with the addition of oats to the mash. I believe the rest was performed at 129F for 15 minutes.

 

[Gavin C]

All I brew are lagers and I've been going back and forth with and without protein rests and this is what I have found.

A 122° rest is worst for head retention. Beer clarity is excellent.

131-133 is OK and produces good head but most of the time it lacks a little retention or lacing. Beer is clear but not as clear as a lower rest.

No protein rest, head seams to be best but beer not quite as clear.

I brew all my beers with well modified Best Pils base malt no finings other than whirlflock, other malts could have different results. My next mash schedules are incorporating a low 103° mash in temp followed by a slow rise to Beta then Alpha temps. I figure running through all the different enzyme temps at a quicker pace may not harm head and help clarity and lautering.

That's really interesting.

i recently started making lagers (4 to date). I have been using step mashes of various profiles and have done a protein rest at various temperatures. Still experimenting. No problems with head retention or mouthfeel thus far but 4 lagers is hardly a massive amount of experience.

I think a factor in head retention is also the fermentation profiles but am still learning so may be way off on that one. I believe @Denny Conn mentioned it in a similar thread.

 

[thethirstyweasel]

All I brew are lagers and I've been going back and forth with and without protein rests and this is what I have found.

A 122° rest is worst for head retention. Beer clarity is excellent.

131-133 is OK and produces good head but most of the time it lacks a little retention or lacing. Beer is clear but not as clear as a lower rest.

No protein rest, head seams to be best but beer not quite as clear.

I brew all my beers with well modified Best Pils base malt no finings other than whirlflock, other malts could have different results. My next mash schedules are incorporating a low 103° mash in temp followed by a slow rise to Beta then Alpha temps. I figure running through all the different enzyme temps at a quicker pace may not harm head and help clarity and lautering.

This is exactly what I'm talking about real brewers experience, when I perform the test I want to try to take a sereies of photographs maybe over time to compare say relative foam formation and retention.THank you for your information.

 

[thethirstyweasel]

There are other ways to increase clarity and preclude chill haze. Cold crashing provides all the benefits of clearing the beer without diminishing head retention and body. And if you can stomach it, isinglass (fish gelatin) will promote sedimentation of chill haze proteins even more. Personally I've never been offended by chill haze. Commercial brewers go great lengths to promote beer clarity for aesthetic reasons. I don't even label my beers -- who am I trying to impress?

From what I remember, the last beer I performed a protein rest on (a Deschutes Chainbreakers White IPA clone) was able to achieve good head retention, but it definitely lacked somewhat in body, and that was with the addition of oats to the mash. I believe the rest was performed at 129F for 15 minutes.

I believe a protein rest probably does help chill haze, and I also agree that cold crashing certainly works. Unfortunately, currently my abillity to crank down to near freezing temperatures is rather difficult. I had a cooler failure sometime ago and economic situations have prevented me from replacing.I've never used isinglass but I have recently last 10 brews or so used knox gelatin and cooling to around 50F for a few days and have had remarkable success. I do still have some chill haze when the beer is ice cold but it quickly dissipates at serving temperature.
cheers,
weez

 

[thethirstyweasel]

That's really interesting.

i recently started making lagers (4 to date). I have been using step mashes of various profiles and have done a protein rest at various temperatures. Still experimenting. No problems with head retention or mouthfeel thus far but 4 lagers is hardly a massive amount of experience.

I think a factor in head retention is also the fermentation profiles but am still learning so may be way off on that one. I believe @Denny Conn mentioned it in a similar thread.

I certainly believe there is truth to this, I recently read a paper that discussed
yeast being a factor I think this is ithttp://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2005.tb00656.x/abstract

 

[Gavin C]

I certainly believe there is truth to this, I recently read a paper that discussed
yeast being a factor I think this is ithttp://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.2005.tb00656.x/abstract

Thanks for that link. Something to explore. Very interesting. I'm wondering is that yeast proteinase activated when the yeast is more stressed.

 

[thethirstyweasel]

Thanks for that link. Something to explore. Very interesting. I'm wondering is that yeast proteinase activated when the yeast is more stressed.

I think yes. I'm a believer that a good healthy fermentation cures a myriad of problems, and a bad one can cause a great host of them.

Cheers,
weez