propane, electric, or hybrid

[johns]

I am thinking about a brew stand and I would like the opinion of any experienced brew stand builders.

Which heats 10 gallons of wort quicker, gas or propane? Have you ever experienced a hybrid brew-stand before? I am thinking about making an electric boil kettle , combined with a propane (10 inch banjo burner) for the MT and HLT. Any ideas or thought on the subject? Is it possible to get a heating element that runs hot on 120 volts?

 

[Frogmanx82]

From what I've investigated, you won't find a lot of heating power on 120 volts. If you're heating 10 gallons of water, you need 240 or stick with propane.

 

[Dan]

I have a 7.5 gallon HLT with a 1500 watt, 120V water heater element. It will raise 7 gallons to strike water temp in about an hour but not boil, at least not in an hour. I think you'll have to go with a bigger element and more power if you want to boil.

 

[johns]

Ok, so if I did decide on a 220v system how long would that take to boil 10 gallons. At the moment I am thinking about something similar to a butus 10 system.

 

[jgalati]

Just talking out of my butt here, but what if you used gas for your boil kettle, gas for your HLT, and a 120v heating element to maintain temp in your HLT? But if you're doing brutus this probably doesn't apply. Running a 220V line seems like more of a pain in the ass than going with gas and a smaller heating element.

 

[Satisfaction]

Running a 220V line seems like more of a pain in the ass than going with gas and a smaller heating element.

Exactly why I went hybrid with mine.. simple and cheap. With a 1500watt element you can also use a simple A419 controller to keep the temperatures steady rather than build a control box that will cost 300+ dollars.

It doesn't have the bling factor of a full electric system though..

If you look to the left of the below picture you can see the heat stick at work. The A419 controller temperature probe is in the thermowell, using this setup I can maintain temps until the electricity is turned off..

 

[jgalati]

^This. Next step would be automating the processes with a microcontroller and/or solenoid propane valves no?

 

[Satisfaction]

^This. Next step would be automating the processes with a microcontroller and/or solenoid propane valves no?

I thought long and hard about automating and going all electric.. once you figure out how to control the mash temps and develop a consistent method in sparging, the brew days become a simple repeatable process.

I remember at first running around like a madman, now that the brewing process is understood the appiffany occurs that brewing is a robust process and does not need to be controlled down to the exact second. (Except for my hop schedule, that's where I am picky)

Have to ask yourself.. Do you enjoy the build or the brewing? How much money do you want to spend?

 

[Frogmanx82]

Have to ask yourself.. Do you enjoy the build or the brewing? How much money do you want to spend?

That's a great question. I have a simple reef tank, been keeping one for years. I see these guys spend $10,000 and a year putting a system together and once its done they get bored with the actual reef keeping. I suspect there is some element of that in this hobby too. You get all caught up in the next great gadget and once you have it all, brewing loses it's appeal. I like to keep it simple and enjoy brew day for what it is. Sharing some brews with my friends and making beer.

 

[Darkness]

? Gas or electric water heater in your house?
? Do you have space in elec. panel for a 230v connection?

I run a propane water heater WAO (wide ass open) I get 148deg at tap. It goes through a 2,000 watt RIMS tube and in to mash at 164deg easy if not I recirculate for a few min and mash in.
Sparge is the same straight out of tap through heat tube and done. Into boil kettle and that is a 200,000 btu Jet Burner and it rocks.

 

[Dan]

? Gas or electric water heater in your house?
? Do you have space in elec. panel for a 230v connection?

I run a propane water heater WAO (wide ass open) I get 148deg at tap. It goes through a 2,000 watt RIMS tube and in to mash at 164deg easy if not I recirculate for a few min and mash in.
Sparge is the same straight out of tap through heat tube and done. Into boil kettle and that is a 200,000 btu Jet Burner and it rocks.

Sounds great and would like to see that. Could you post a video?

 

[microbusbrewery]

I built a 5 gallon hybrid HERMS but pretty much the opposite of your idea. The HLT and HEX are electric and the BK is natural gas. I use a BCS-460 to control them and wanted the precise control during the mash. Going electric on the HEX and HLT was a lot cheaper and simpler (just required SSR's and elements) than gas so that's why I went this route. The NG-fired BK is manual with nothing controlled by the BCS. The elements for the HLT and HEX are 110V 1500 watt each. As a previous poster indicated, these work great on a 5 gallon system but I'd think 220v would be more appropriate for a 10 gallon system. My HLT will heat 5 gallons of strikewater in about an hour; the HEX gets to temp in about 20 minutes.

As to which one heats quicker, that's kind of a loaded question. It's kind of like asking what weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of lead. If you had a propane burner, a NG burner, and an electrical element, each rated at 50,000 BTU, theoretically they should all heat a given quantity of water at the same rate. In the real world, the electric element should be more efficient since it's immersed in the liquid you're trying to heat. Since they're not in direct contact, both a propane and NG burner will lose some energy to the atmosphere.

 

[johns]

I have been reading the BIAB thread and now I am thinking about a gas powered 20 gallon vessel. Is it a good or a bad idea?