Pro hopeful newbie looking to buy long term equipment

[happyinsonoma]

Hello guys,
I'm completely new to this industry, I'm currently looking to jump in with two feet though. I would love some input on something that will allow me to build nothing due to lack of time to do such things. I'm currently going to a local community college to take some biology classes and other things I think may help me along my path as well as looking at the siebel institutes list of books. I'm sort of bummed out because the UC Davis program is very close (2 hours) and is full for some time to come. So... I want to try and get a system that can be both big enough to make large batches for sale at some point but maybe capable of running a smaller amount for all the test runs I'm going to be doing.

I'm very interested in automation for the burners/ pumps for the initial boil process and moving it into the primary tank. This way I can comfortably start a boil and not worry about having to baby sit it on the weekends or whatever when I'm able to run it but wanna go for a run with the girlfriend, etc.

(side note, can you leave it on the burner for prolonged time at a lower temp? I guess the question is, can you prolong the boil process and not worry about automating the movement to primary)

I'm also curious what it would take to boil a few rounds, get them into the primary, get those mixed and onto the secondary, all the way to the fermenting process for multiple batches.

This also brings me to the final question about what to do with it once its fermenting and being stored... do I need a cooler?

So basically, I want to put in a low/medium investment that can be sized up slowly as I get better. When I mean low, I mean not 150k. 20-50k isn't out of the question and I do have a 1500 sq.ft garage at my property. Its got 12' and 9' drive through doors w/ 11' ceiling. I have very little in the garage at the moment. It wasn't built very long ago.

I'd like not to fill the whole garage but I'm just putting it out there I have the room to grow and lots of land to build a building if I needed to with the equipment to do it, etc. I'd much rather build the building that build the equipment, lol...

I'm going to stick to what I'm good at.

What I'm really trying to do is not buy things twice, I'd like to be able to try a small batch then try it larger and see if it comes out the same, etc.

I'm not a chef but have lots of chef friends and am very excited to toy with flavors. I'd love to have them over and pick their brains on the different ideas they have and really have fun with it.

I'm looking at the brew-magic.com for a prebuilt unit but I'm afraid it won't be big enough when the time comes. I'd like to put the brews out in the market on a small level to get feedback but i'll need several kegs I'm thinking to really get any footing. I've got a few local pubs i think will carry them before they realize I'm crazier than they thought, lol...

This is a 5 year plan for me but I'd like to get it off the ground in the next 3 months and really play with it over the summer. Well... enough about me and my intro, lets see what you guys can come up with.

BTW, I went to sierra nevada's brewery in Chico, CA. for a CCOF meeting and OMG!!! That guy and his brewery blew my over analytical mind all over the place. Its my inspiration!

 

[veritas524]

Have you actually brewed yet? I would suggest treating it like a hobby at first before you start building your life around it. Also, all that equipment still doesn't legally allow you to brew more than 100-200 gallons a year without the proper licensing. In terms of automation, you should really set aside the three to four hours it takes to actually brew (mash, boil, etc...) and worry about going for a run with your chick after its done. Controlling the temp on your fermenters would be the only thing I'd really worry about automating. i.e. big ass freezer with a johnson controller on it. Drop a couple hundred dollars on a typical home brew setup with a few gizmos for now, if in a year you're still hooked and want to go "pro" look at acquiring the equipment that has the capacity that would allow you to hit the legal minimum quantities to commercially brew.

 

[Berock]

Dreams are good and nobody is successful without taking risks. In addition, most sucessful business owners I know would of never have started the business if they would have known the time/money involved (so ignorance is bliss). That said, I would learn more about the process and the industry before trying to go pro. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Beer_Maker]

I second the treat it as a hobby first idea. It sounds as if you've never brewed before. And, while it is true that if you can boil water you can make beer...there is a lot of knowledge to be gained before you run off and sing $25K into something.

Stout Tanks has a 3 bbl system that it looks like you could get into for that price.

You really need to learn the laws first.

 

[happyinsonoma]

It is true, I'm completely nieve about brewing other than what I have read. I have a friend who has brewed some batches. We have been discussing the idea of turning it into a business. I've got land with plenty of buildings. I'm wanting to get the license once I feel I have the ability to create brews consistently from recipes.

I'm also interested in long term distillery but I'm going to start with this and see where it goes.

So my question now would be can you get a large tank and only use a small amount of liquid in it to make small batches without a problem if you have temp controls?

Stout tanks are something I've been looking at today.

So basically does the brew-magic sound like a good idea if i can make maybe a few batches on it taste similar would fit my needs initially?

I'm trying to find a way to make mistakes on my part, not on the equipments part, does that make sense? I'd like to have solid equipment that doesn't burn or scould anything, doesn't spin/paddles releasing things into the beer that I don't want to be there, etc. I'd like to pay someone else for their ingenuity and realization of what doesn't help and potentially hinders and learn from there.

 

[veritas524]

http://www.howtobrew.com

read this, go buy a $14 bucket and give it a shot. That will allow you to do small batches

In regards of fermenting in a huge tank that is mostly empty, I would think that having that much head space would be an invitation for trouble. Do things on an extremely small scale and then once you learn the process, invest in some expensive equipment if you want. The first thing you should do is read about California's laws in regards to commercially producing beer. You're probably looking at a minimum of $10,000 just for the license.

 

[veritas524]

http://www.abc.ca.gov/permits/permits.html

 

[dzlater]

Go buy a home brew kit and learn to brew first.
Then Maybe try and get a job at local brewery.

 

[ongreystreet]

You can get pretty much the same kit that almost all professional craft brewer's started with for probably less then then $40, along with some free bottles and buckets.

3 months to get started is way too long, I got my first kit for Christmas yesterday and I've already got beer today!

 

[SankePankey]

You sound like me about 9 months ago.

I used to work in a commercial distillery, winery, hard cider house so I was familiar with how much work it is on that level and how janitorial most of the work is. I was disinterested in trying it out as a hobby and wanted to purchase a system worthy of pico-brewpub operation.

I bought a Brewmation (which would be right up your alley from reading your OP) and assembled the rest of the components myself. My starting budget was about $6k. By the end now, my tally is about 40% above that (craziest newbie ever...). Consider that your brewhouse is going to be about 40% of your cost. If you are going to do 15 gallons, you won't want to fiddle with carboys, if you are like me. I ferment in 2 pressure vessels (one a converted sanke and the other a 15 gallon corny more for lagering). Do not underestimate the costs of all the little things like nuts and bolts and paint. I craigslisted my chest freezer ferm chambers and as much other stuff as I could (brewstand) and painted them.

As far as the numbers go and after much consideration, I now think it's a great pilot system, but I don't think it's feasible to do anything other than one or two revolving taps at a brewpub with such a system and run a business (as much as I'd hoped). I am familiar with how much work it takes to succeed in the restaurant business alone without brewing.

I still am definitely going pro at some point (as definite as things can be) but I would never start a business with the hopes of making money with any less than a 3 bbl system for a little teeny brewpub, or a 15 bbl system for a production kegging brewery. As far as I'm concerned a 7 bbl is as much as I'd do if I wanted to make some money, which is why you'd go into business isn't it.... making a living at something can suck the passion out of it as I'm sure many people know.

No doubt it will be great to have a pilot system like this in my future for seasonals and testing ingredients before committing to a large batch, but I do not think that in any "decent" area... meaning highly taxed (for me, NY) it's feasible to do a 15 gal system especially in this economy (Sam Calagione aside... that was along time ago). I think you'd be better off doing the buckets thing until you want to do at least a 3 bbl system (which the Stout one is awesome, I think) if you don't know anything about commercial operations.

I would never go for a brew-magic. Way to pricey for me. Around 10k (dunno, haven't checked recently what they're going for) for just the brewhouse means mucho dinero by the end. Realize if you spend 10k on a brewhouse you are not going to want to wait 2 months until your little 15 gallon batch fully ferments to do another batch. You'll want multiple fermenters and chambers too.

If you want more info on trying it out with a 1 bbl kegging system, check out a fellow named Gordie on this site who operates (I believe) Healdsburg Brewing Company. I have found his posts on the subject invaluable.

 

[ongreystreet]

I'm very interested in automation for the burners/ pumps for the initial boil process and moving it into the primary tank. This way I can comfortably start a boil and not worry about having to baby sit it on the weekends or whatever when I'm able to run it but wanna go for a run with the girlfriend, etc.

(side note, can you leave it on the burner for prolonged time at a lower temp? I guess the question is, can you prolong the boil process and not worry about automating the movement to primary)

I'm also curious what it would take to boil a few rounds, get them into the primary, get those mixed and onto the secondary, all the way to the fermenting process for multiple batches.

I reread this post, and a few things you wrote don't add up altogether.

First automation, beer doesn't brew itself. Brewing beer like this would mostly like be your job, hobby, and girlfriend. I wouldn't expect too much free time at first with this sort of set-up. You want to prolong the boil in case you have errands to run? Ask your 'chef friends' would they roast a ham at half the temp for twice the time because their girlfriend wants them to take em to the mall?

Second, this phrase confuses me "get them into the primary, get those mixed and onto the secondary, all the way to the fermenting process". That almost makes it sound like you have to do primary and secondary before fermentation. It's either a typo or you have no idea what you're talking about. I don't mean to be an a$$, but I don't wanna see anyone to spend any money on something they don't understand.

 

[happyinsonoma]

Its true, I was typing this really fast. I am getting the books together, I may end up taking this post down. What I was trying to get from this post was premature I think. I was looking at a piece of equipment, watching the videos and gearing up to buy the books whilst posting on here searching for feedback on the equipment.

My post should have said, What do you guys think about this piece of equipment.. brew-magic.com for a toy to learn on and make project bear while I'm learning so I don't have to buy something twice, nor spend the time building it.

Your not being an ass... as I posted in line one... I'm nieve... I said it frankly right off.

I'm also willing to learn. Thank you for your posts. I just don't like what I'm reading about beer consistency and I'm quite particular about how things get done. I don't want to make beer I can't keep at the right temp, I want it to cool down so its clear, etc. I want to have the right equipment so I can see how to get it right, not kinda for the most part right. That's the equipment I'm looking for.

For all who have the suggestions to point me in the right direction I'd love it. Thanks!

 

[happyinsonoma]

SankePankey, Thanks for the post. I'm going to take some time and wait til I get the books, then I'll think about the engineering part while I'm working with my friends rig. Engineering is something I'm quite good at so I think this will really help. Plus I really like that reference in Healdsburg. Thank you for that. I'm looking into meeting some people at the different local clubs if they'll have me