Priming question

[Tony B]

I am planning to bottle a batch this weekend and in an effort to avoid possible oxidation from transferring to a bottling bucket, I was considering bottling straight from the fermenter and using the carbonation tablets. Any thoughts on this?

 

[corncob]

It is done all the time. You might have more or less yeast in suspension to carbonate--less can make it really slow, but it's only a problem with the most extreme floccers and then still very rare, more just leaves more sediment in your bottles. No big deal.

Personally, I do not even own a bottling bucket. I use unboiled table sugar, a sanitized measuring spoon and a sanitized funnel. There are threads on here about this method.

If you are worried about oxygen, definitely place your cap, hold with your thumb, shake the bottle to liberate some co2, and vent before crimping--maybe twice. It makes a huge difference, I'm pretty sure. You can search "cap on foam" to find more on this.

 

[Jag75]

I am planning to bottle a batch this weekend and in an effort to avoid possible oxidation from transferring to a bottling bucket, I was considering bottling straight from the fermenter and using the carbonation tablets. Any thoughts on this?

If you have to move your fv before you bottle, do it a day or 2 before you bottle. That way it all settles

 

[bike2brew]

I bottle and carb straight from the fermenter. My F-in- law in action below.. Recently switched from carb drops to table sugar so I can vary between 1/2 to 1 tsp and adjust carbonation levels. My bottle bucket is only used for plunging bottles and run star-san through my tubing and bottle straw.

 

[odie]

when I last bottled...I just put a teaspoon of sugar in each bottle and filled straight from the fermenter spigot.

No cold crash so more yeast in suspension.

Oxygen? never cared about that. The yeast should take care of that while it eats the teaspoon of sugar. Plus I would fill the bottle almost to the very top.

 

[corncob]

when I last bottled...I just put a teaspoon of sugar in each bottle and filled straight from the fermenter spigot.

No cold crash so more yeast in suspension.

Oxygen? never cared about that. The yeast should take care of that while it eats the teaspoon of sugar. Plus I would fill the bottle almost to the very top.

I have wondered about this, specifically-- could the elimination of most of the headspace (filling from the tap) actually be better than the elimination of splashing (bottling wand)? Every single piece of gear the homebrewer can pitch over the side is a small win, in my opinion.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@corncob: as a counter-example for 2023/2024 forum discussion on bottling (to study? to ignore? ) SNPA is bottle conditioned.

Is it possible that the quality of the beer at bottling day is more important than any one bottling day O2 prevention / mitigation technique?

 

[odie]

I have wondered about this, specifically-- could the elimination of most of the headspace (filling from the tap) actually be better than the elimination of splashing (bottling wand)? Every single piece of gear the homebrewer can pitch over the side is a small win, in my opinion.

I found the "wand" would not fill the bottle completely. After filling the bottle to the very absolute top, pulling the wand out, the beer level drops a bunch. I guess it makes "headspace"

Filling from the spigot, you tilt the bottle and no splashing and you can fill all the way to the top if you like.

 

[Tony B]

So are you guys using 1tsp table sugar for a 12iz bottle? I will be filling primarily 22 and 16 oz bottles with a handful of 12oz.

 

[MaxStout]

Try to fill the bottle to within about 1/2 - 3/4" of the top to minimize headspace. If you're using a bottling wand, it's an easy technique. Fill the bottle as much as you can, pull back the wand, tip the bottle a little bit so that the wand is almost perpendicular and press the end of the wand against the inside of the bottle's mouth to top up. That usually leaves some foam from CO2 coming out of solution, which allows you to cap on foam. This will further limit O2 ingress. Of course, do not fill to the top--you need a little room for gas expansion.

Note that with small headspace, when opening a bottle you won't get much of a pop sound.

 

[redrocker652002]

I found the "wand" would not fill the bottle completely. After filling the bottle to the very absolute top, pulling the wand out, the beer level drops a bunch. I guess it makes "headspace"

Filling from the spigot, you tilt the bottle and no splashing and you can fill all the way to the top if you like.

I always thought the bottling wand was to make a correct headspace for any CO2 that is created during the carbination process. If you fill to the top, aren't you risking pressure and possible bottle bombs?

My bottling process is pretty simple. I move the fermenting bucket to the counter over the dishwasher. I let it sit there for a few hours while I clean and sanitize my wand, and tubing. I then pour some Starsan in a small bowl and dump the caps in them. I take a 12 pack of bottles at a time, open the dishwasher and bottle on the door so that any spillage sits on the inside of the dishwasher door and it not all over the floor. Once I am done with 12, I cap and put into my boxes and they go into the closet for a week or so before I pull one or two to see where we are.

 

[odie]

The wand will leave headspace. Yes, you need a little headspace. How much IDK. The wand does not lease the "correct" amount. It leaves whatever volume it occupied while in the bottle. It just so happens it's about what you needed anyway. Actually I think it's a wee bit more than ideal.

 

[odie]

So are you guys using 1tsp table sugar for a 12iz bottle? I will be filling primarily 22 and 16 oz bottles with a handful of 12oz.

I used a teaspoon (tsp) becasue it works well for most beers and gave me good results. It's not exact but works very well and is much easier than adding sugar to the bucket and mixing it all up and all the other hassles and issues.

A 16oz I would probably use the same.

22oz maybe 2tsp.

If you got smaller spoons like the 1/4 or 1/2 tsp sizes as well then you can more fine tune it.

It's homebrew, it ain't gotta be perfect...

 

[hotbeer]

I always thought the bottling wand was to make a correct headspace for any CO2 that is created during the carbination process. If you fill to the top, aren't you risking pressure and possible bottle bombs?

What's the correct amount of headspace?

I find the amount of headspace left in my 12 fluid ounce bottles when I remove my wand just happens to assure me there is about 12 fluid ounces of beer in the bottle. And that also seems to allow enough headspace for that great pfft sound we want to hear when we open them.

However there is about 1.3 fluid ounces more beer that can be put in that headspace. I'd rather have the bonus of more beer in the bottle. I don't care about the sound. Though it does make you think you opened a totally flat bottle of beer. And there aren't any expansion issues that won't be accounted for with only a millimeter of headspace. And the belief that there is any greatly increased pressure from less headspace is just someone's poor attention in high school physics class.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I always thought the bottling wand was to make a correct headspace for any CO2 that is created during the carbination process.

It keeps the process simple:

• fill the bottle full (I let just a little overflow the bottle),
• remove the wand.

and the result is that wonderful "hiss" when opening the bottle.

If you fill to the top, aren't you risking pressure and possible bottle bombs?

There are a couple of books (remember those?) from the 1990s that suggest leaving no head space to help reduce oxidation. The books were peer reviewed and had editors - so apparently the idea was reasonable for bottles in the 1990s.

My process for bottling includes checking existing bottles for hair line cracks. Occasionally, I throw a bottle away.

 

[Tony B]

I used a teaspoon (tsp) becasue it works well for most beers and gave me good results. It's not exact but works very well and is much easier than adding sugar to the bucket and mixing it all up and all the other hassles and issues.

A 16oz I would probably use the same.

22oz maybe 2tsp.

If you got smaller spoons like the 1/4 or 1/2 tsp sizes as well then you can more fine tune it.

It's homebrew, it ain't gotta be perfect...

Yeah, this is only my second batch ever and although I would love it to be perfectly carbonated, I’m good with mediocre carbonation as long as I avoid bottle bombs.

 

[whoaru99]

When I was bottling I used almost exclusively old long neck returnables and bottling wand.

Allowed to fill as close to the brim as I dared with the wand fully inserted. When withdrawn, there was ~12oz in the bottle and was part way up the neck, same/similar as commercially bottled long necks.

I used bottling bucket because I batch primed in it.

 

[Tony B]

While on the topic, is it ok to wash and sanitize bottles the night before and then store them upside down until bottling or better to sanitize as you go?

 

[MaxStout]

While on the topic, is it ok to wash and sanitize bottles the night before and then store them upside down until bottling or better to sanitize as you go?

Yes, many people do that. If inverted, microbes won't go inside. Same thing with petri dishes with loose-fitting lids. Germs won't move upward and into them.

 

[redrocker652002]

While on the topic, is it ok to wash and sanitize bottles the night before and then store them upside down until bottling or better to sanitize as you go?

I do my cleaning and sanitizing the day before, maybe even two days, depending on when the dishwasher is available. I store my bottles in the 12 pack boxes and close the lids. I probably should store upside down, but I don't.

 

[bike2brew]

I always thought the bottling wand was to make a correct headspace for any CO2 that is created during the carbination process. If you fill to the top, aren't you risking pressure and possible bottle bombs?

My bottling process is pretty simple. I move the fermenting bucket to the counter over the dishwasher. I let it sit there for a few hours while I clean and sanitize my wand, and tubing. I then pour some Starsan in a small bowl and dump the caps in them. I take a 12 pack of bottles at a time, open the dishwasher and bottle on the door so that any spillage sits on the inside of the dishwasher door and it not all over the floor. Once I am done with 12, I cap and put into my boxes and they go into the closet for a week or so before I pull one or two to see where we are.

I think filling with the bottling wand also mitigates against oxygen egress because the flow occurs from the bottom up as opposed to splashing the beer in top to bottom. Like others have said filling the bottle with the wand and removing it as it hits the top or overflow slightly leaves the proper head space. The carb drop is just slightly below the volume of 1 tsp.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Like others have said filling the bottle with the wand and removing it as it hits the top or overflow slightly leaves the proper head space.

And with that standard (by-convention) head space, when opening the bottle after it has carbonated and conditioned, one gets that delightful hiss that many enjoy.

 

[Graham H]

While on the topic, is it ok to wash and sanitize bottles the night before and then store them upside down until bottling or better to sanitize as you go?

If you’re hesitant, you could always cap it with a small square of aluminum foil, spritzed with sanitizer.

 

[DBhomebrew]

And with that SOP, stubby 12oz bottles will have a different headspace volume than a standard long neck. And my SS wand displaces more volume.

I wonder if a $5 bottling wand has been engineered to provide a perfect volume of headspace or if they just spec'd the most cost effective 3/8" rigid tubing.

To prevent bottle bombs, all you need is a few ml of headspace. I leave a 1/2" or so. Fill with a wand from the bottom to the top, pull wand to top and press on inside of lip to top up to where I want it.

Reducing headspace has been found to be one of the most effective ways to prevent oxidation in storage.

Slightly more finicky fill, sometimes a few drips when pouring, and I do miss that "hiss". But I do enjoy the extended shelf life of fresh tasting beer.

 

[BeerAndTele]

So are you guys using 1tsp table sugar for a 12iz bottle? I will be filling primarily 22 and 16 oz bottles with a handful of 12oz.

I’ve had best success with 1/2 tsp table sugar per 12 oz. bottle … I reduce to 3/8 tsp per 12 oz. for heavily dry-hopped beers, as the hop creep leads to gushers when I’ve used 1/2.

And I agree with those above recommending 1/2” to 3/4” headspace in a 12 oz. bottle.

Lastly, I’ve struggled to “cap on foam” - I can do it, but not without making a mess - so instead I shoot a spray of Private Preserve wine preservative under the cap before capping.

 

[corncob]

At this point, I only bottle in 32oz EZ Cap bottles. I use an online priming sugar calculator to hit the carbonation level for the style I'm bottling. The results have been great so far.

I think I am going to start shrinking my headspace, based on this discussion. We'll see how it goes....

 

[corncob]

Lastly, I’ve struggled to “cap on foam” - I can do it, but not without making a mess - so instead I shoot a spray of Private Preserve wine preservative under the cap before capping.

Before crimping, hold the cap down with your thumb and shake the bottle to purge the headspace air with liberated co2. No mess. Works every time.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

FWIW, storing bottles cold (refrigeration) is a easy way to extend "shelf life" (generally 2x over stored at 70F) - and enjoy the "hiss" as well.

And I am looking forward to fresh anecdotal reports, later this year, regarding "capping on foam using a thumb".

 

[AmarikinBrew]

This is GREAT, you guys are demystifying the legend of the bottle rockets, and providing valuable info here for bottle storage in one shot!

 

[DBhomebrew]

I wouldn't necessarily call refrigeration an easy way to extend shelf life if you're talking 2-3 rotating 5gal batches and the one family fridge. When it comes down to it, I don't miss the hiss at all.

Yeah, yeah. Smaller batches, a second fridge, drink more, drink quicker.

Lots of options, most brewers should be able to find a solution that works for them.

 

[MaxStout]

When it comes down to it, I don't miss the hiss at all.

I don't, either. I am more interested in improving the shelf life of my HB.

Being a bottler, I know that I'm behind the 8-ball, as far as LODO is concerned. I do what I can to improve on that.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

"behind the 8-ball" [regarding oxygen management]

The path forward is likely to be people posting recipes and brew day notes with sufficient information for others to politely compare/contrast oxygen management techniques.

Over in AHA forums, a small number of brewers have been doing this for around 18 months. Along with the recipes, there is occasional discussion on additions / subtractions to their approach.

 

[Tony B]

I bottled today. Straight from the FV. I went with 3/4 tsp for 12oz, 1tsp for 16oz and 1.5tsp for 22oz. I’ll let you guys know how it works out in a week or two.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Before crimping, hold the cap down with your thumb and shake the bottle to purge the headspace air with liberated co2. No mess. Works every time.

Tonight was bottling night for a "hazy" Citra (all hop steep) APA (24 pack). I used this technique with four bottles. FWIW, I saw foam in about half the head space (I do a 'standard' bottle fill with a bottling wand).

Thank you for sharing this approach!

 

[Tony B]

This is the 2 week point I actually started drinking it here and there after week 1. It definitely got better and more appropriately carbonated closer to the 2 week point. Having a glass now and it’s great.

 

[Tony B]

I took a gravity reading and it was stable at 1.004. So I went ahead and bottled. I stuck with my procedure of adding a measured amount of table sugar to each bottle and bottling straight from the FV. I only got 12-12oz bottles and 7-22oz bottles for a total of about 2.3 gallons before I started to see small bits of the yeast running through the bottling wand. The yeast cake was probably 1.5” thick.
We tasted it again from the hydrometer jar and my GF said this is her favorite batch yet.