Preparing to Order Hach Pocket Pro+ - Seeking Advice Please

[Jiffster]

Preparing to purchase a Hach Pocket Pro+ and wanted to ask what additional supplies I need to test my mash Ph?

All the reading I’ve done states I’ll need a 4 & 7 buffer. I’ve also read the “Pillow” might be the most economical since I’ll average 2 brews a month (for now). That beings said, I didn’t see the “pillows” on the Hach site. Only the larger volume and single use packs.

Do I have to purchase the Hach meter and buffers directly from Hach?

Thanks.

 

[timsch]

Meter, yes, buffers no. I'd order a cleaner as well. AJDelange recommends an enzymatic cleaner. The Hach cleaners don't fit this bill, AFAIK.

I have one and had the probe fail after one year w/ a half a dozen uses. Customer support said I was SOL, being a year old. I never overheated it, did rinse with distilled water after use and stored it properly. I grudgingly ordered another sensor @ ~$80 and will clean it before storing it this time. If that doesn't lead to a longer life, I'll give up on this item.

 

[Jiffster]

I spoke with a Hach tech and he recommended the following:

Storage:
For storing longer than 1-2 days, use Hach pH Electrode Storage Solution. Rinse sensor, fill cap/cup with solution, install and let sit.

Cleaning:
Use lab-grade detergent.

I asked about using enzym cleaner and he thought it may not be needed unless there are proteins present. Even then, he thought the high cost of the cleaner might no be worth it if I end up relaxing the sensor every year.

Are there cheaper cleaning and storage solutions than what Hach sells?
Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[timsch]

That storage recommendation from Hach is different than their previous recommendation for this product, which was to store it dry. Most people on this forum recommended a drop or two of water to maintain humidity, which is what I did. Didn't work so well.

Proteins are present in the wort, hence the enzymatic cleaner recommendation. I can't comment on a storage solution, but the enzymatic cleaner I bought was Zymit, which was maybe around $30 for what to me would be a lifetime supply if the shelf life were that long.

I should call Hach and ask them about storage to see if I get the same answer as you did. You don't recall the name of who you spoke to, do you? I'd like to make sure I'm not just asking the same person.

 

[Jiffster]

I spoke with Matt. I'm very curious to hear what they tell you.

 

[stat]

I've been using mine ~3 times a month for a year and a half. I store it with a drop of ro water in the cap, if it's longer than a week I will refresh that drop since it usually evaporates. After about 6 months I had a problem calibrating it, it just wouldn't settle. Someone recommended that I pull the batteries for a minute and retry, that worked. So now I follow this procedure every brew day.
Pull batteries
Fill cap with RO water and set the probe in it
Either mix my buffers or wait 5 minutes while I do something else
Empty the RO and add the batteries and calibrate
Between each buffer solution or wort sample I squirt the probe with a stream of RO water until I see the reading move significantly then I blot it with paper towel making sure it wicks up all the moisture

If I follow that it calibrates quickly and has a very stable and quick reading when I am actually testing wort.
To be honest I'm no scientist and may well be destroying this meter, it has lasted this long though. No cleaners or storage solution.

 

[ajdelange]

No, you don't have to buy the meter or the buffers directly from Hach. I've seen the meter sold by several other dealers but not sure about the pillows:
http://www.hach.com/buffer-powder-pillows-ph-4-01-nist-color-coded-red-pk-50/product?id=7640204347
There are other manufacturers that sell pre measured buffer powders.

Fill the cap with storage solution? That's a one on me. Are you sure the guy understood which meter you were considering? They have many other models most of which do require soaking the end of the electrode in a storage solution but I have never heard anything about that for this particular model.

 

[Jiffster]

No, you don't have to buy the meter or the buffers directly from Hach. I've seen the meter sold by several other dealers but not sure about the pillows:
http://www.hach.com/buffer-powder-pillows-ph-4-01-nist-color-coded-red-pk-50/product?id=7640204347

I've looked but haven't found anyone else selling the meter. Was hoping to find for the same price with a seller offering Amazon "Prime" to get free shipping. No biggy.

There are other manufacturers that sell pre measured buffer powders.

Fill the cap with storage solution? That's a one on me. Are you sure the guy understood which meter you were considering? They have many other models most of which do require soaking the end of the electrode in a storage solution but I have never heard anything about that for this particular model.

I made it clear which meter and he even talked about how this one allows the electrode to be replaced for ~$70. Hopefully I can get a definitive answer on this.

Should I skip the detergent and only use an enzyme cleaner?

 

[broadbill]

Is storing probes dry a thing? Most of my experience comes from lab-grade pH meters and were always stored immersed in some sort of solution. Just curious.

 

[Jiffster]

The user manual states nothing about storage.

 

[broadbill]

The user manual states nothing about storage.

That is a warning flag right there.

 

[timsch]

Seems like Hach still hasn't gotten their &*(@ straight WRT this product.

Interesting tip about the battery removal. I'll try that since I still have the old probe.

 

[ajdelange]

They don't say anything specific about how to store it but they do tell you to rehydrate it if you have stored it dry and that implies that it is OK to store it dry and indeed it is. There is some new technology in the junction in this design. At least I have never seen a junction that looks like this before.

Because the manual is so vague lots of people called Hach about this and were told dry storage is OK. I reasoned that if I put a few drops of water in there (not touching the bulb - just enough to keep the air in the cap saturated) that it would take longer for the hydrated layer to dry and that, therefore, rehydration would not take so long. This has proven to be the case for me and eventually people started reporting that they were getting the same advice from Hach. But I have never heard of them suggesting filling the cap with storage fluid before. Perhaps their research has indicated that this is in fact the best way to go.

As for the meter itself: Hach-Lange doesn't make toy stuff for the high school chemistry lab. They serve the water industry and it is for them that this meter was designed. I don't think they thought about the brewing industry at the time they released it but the brewing industry has adopted this meter enthusiastically. The big question, of course, was as to whether the sugars and proteins encountered in brewing was going to gum up the works of a meter intended for water. They don't seem to any more than they gum up the works of any other meter though the state of the art in junction design seems now quite immune to those problems.

This particular meter did have roll out problems for sure but those now seem to be under control. I think I've had mine for about 3 years now and it is still hanging in there. It was one of the earliest ones sold so I got lucky.

So no, the fact of little on storage in the manual isn't a warning flag (though it is weird). This has turned out to be a pretty good meter especially WRT it's stability at the price point. It is also quite popular with home and Pro brewers. While early electrode failure is apparently a thing of the past (and that would have been the warning flag) we certainly would hope for a life of a couple of years. I have gotten 5 years out of a couple of Hach electrodes and have one that is over 7 that I keep around just to see if it will still take cal. It does.

 

[Jiffster]

I'm hoping someone with sufficient knowledge and experience with these meters will contact Hach again for a definitive answer (to date) on this issue.

 

[Hannabrew]

Are there any new updates on the storage of these meters?

Also, how do you go about wicking the water you use to rinse the meters without touching the bulbs?

 

[timsch]

From my limited experience, FWIW:

I've had my new (2nd) electrode for about a year now, with around 8 brews on it. It is holding stable still. I'm storing it with a drop of water in the cap, after I clean it with Zymit, which is an enzyme cleaner, after every use. It's still too early for me to tell whether this cleaning and storage procedure is helping in any way, unfortunately.

I do touch the bulb gently with a dishtowel to dry it off during use, never pressing the towel onto it with my finger. It seems to get most of the water off well enough.

 

[day_trippr]

I had a back and forth with Hach regarding storage as the manual says see the web site and the web site said read the manual.

The response was to put a few drops of non DI water in the cap to provide some humidity. That's all.

So add that to the list of Hach answers - which is clearly all over the map...

Cheers!

 

[Morrey]

I called Hach as well, and was told when I rinsed off the electrode with DI water, simply leave it wet and replace the cap. Those clinging droplets of water would provide the needed humidity for storage. This makes sense as we all seem hesitant to touch the bulb with anything including cloths, paper towels, etc.

I use a 50:1 dilution of Zymit to clean proteins. The mfg says 100:1 but the rep told me to go 50:1 and let it soak 1 hour before rinsing and storing. He is a home brewer too so he had a feel for our mission.