Possibly ruined my first partial

[Hernando]

So I did my first partial 11 lbs. grain bill 1 lb wheat DME for 5 gal. batch. And, I am not sure the extent of the damage I had done.

Beersmith said to bring my strike temp up 204*°F for my grain that was at 81°F. When adding the grain, it brought my temp down to 191°F. So I freaked out a bit and add some cool water to bring the temp down to 151°F. It was at the higher temps for about 3 minutes before I could get it down to the proper range.

I am assuming that this estimated 3 minutes at higher temps is more than enough time to make the enzymatic conversion null? Any thoughts or should I just expect a tannic and very weak beer? I haven't tasted it yet and plan to tonight. This was defintely a learning experience for me and have since downloaded sparge pal which stated that I should've added the grain at 160°F for target mash. Not sure why Beersmith was so far off but I am still learning the full functionality iof that software also; could jsut be user error.

 

[mbobhat]

I say no worries.

 

[Hernando]

Well that is not what I was expecting to hear! Well I guess I will RDWHAHB when I get off work. I tried not to worry but with learning a new process, I almost feel like I am starting over. Now I can't wait to go home and pull a gravity reading and taste test.

 

[mbobhat]

My biggest problem (along with others) is getting the water temp right. It usually takes me a few minutes as well to adjust the temp. The real problem is when I start out to low, with too much volume, and no matter what I do I can't get the temp to my desired range.

Now I always shoot for higher, and add ice cubes.

I think you should be okay with the higher temp for a few minutes, it may be a little bit of tannins, but I'm not quite sure what it takes to extract them, because I don't think just high temps will do it, I think you gotta sparge them out because the low pH of the mash keeps them from going into the wort.

Not the expert though, learning through experiences

 

[turkeyjerky214]

Now I always shoot for higher, and add ice cubes.

+1. I usually overshoot by a few degrees and stir in a few ice cubes.

 

[ayoungrad]

Apparently it can take up to 20 minutes to denature enzymes from heat so I would just let it ride.

But, in the future, 204F strike water with 81F grains is WAY off. My strike water for 73F grain is usually between 160 and 165F. I use my own specific heat calculator but I used to use this one:

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

My guess is that your Beersmith defaults need some adjusting because I have not heard of others having this issue with Beersmith.

 

[tennesseean_87]

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

+1

 

[dbreienrk1]

Calculating water temps for mashing is really based of your system and atmospherics. I would disagree with others on here about not worrying about that high of a temperature. Don't get me wrong, you will have beer at the end of the day, but once you get up into the 170's you are really causing harm to the final product. via wikipedia...

"Any starches extracted once the mash is brought above this temperature [172.4] cannot be broken down, and will cause a starch haze in the finished product, or in larger quantities an unpleasantly harsh flavor can develop."

In my opinion, it is better to undershoot temperature and add hot water to go up...

 

[Pie_Man]

I've found Beersmith to be pretty accurate. I'm not an expert, but you may probably need to tweak your equipment and/or mash profile.

When I do BIAB, beersmith has always given me an accurate strike water temp. I add my room temp grains to the strike water and stir until I'm at the correct temp. Using a more conservative number like 160F seems about right. At least then you can stir and/or add an ice cube or two if you're too high. If you're too low, you can give the pot a little heat by adding a little extra strike water, or using direct heat while stirring.

Overall, you controlled the temperature within just a few minutes, so hopefully you didn't stop all enzymatic activity. Did you take a pre-boil gravity reading?

 

[ayoungrad]

Calculating water temps for mashing is really based of your system and atmospherics.

The temperature calculations are actually pretty straight-forward. The overall amount of heat remains constant before and after mashing in. This is, of course, assuming an isolated, insulated system.

But in the real world, the only important variable to be accounted for during mashing-in is heat lost to the mash tun. And many people compensate for that by preheating the mash tun.

A really easy way to compensate for the mash tun heat loss is to add all of your strike water with a temperature that is ABOVE the calculated temperature into your empty mash tun. The heat from the over-heated water will then warm your mash tun and you can watch the temp until you are at the predicted strike temp and then add your grains to the water. I realize that many people don't like to add grain to the water and prefer to do the opposite but it is a fairly fool-proof way of doing it.

As far as starch, you could be right about that. But I would imagine that not all of the enzymes were denatured. So, although it may have starch haze, it is still likely to ferment into something palatable.

 

[thepartsmancometh]

As far as lo mash temp, I can fit my smaller kettle I use for biab partial mashes in my oven. My oven has a temperature probe setting, so I drop that in the mash and set the oven temp at like 200. I found the probe is about 2 degrees off (low) from my actual thermometer, so I can control the mash temp fluctuations pretty gently with indirect heat

 

[Hernando]

My guess is that your Beersmith defaults need some adjusting because I have not heard of others having this issue with Beersmith.

Most likely you are correct and I will defintely have to go in and figure the software portion out before my next brew day.

Calculating water temps for mashing is really based of your system and atmospherics. I would disagree with others on here about not worrying about that high of a temperature. Don't get me wrong, you will have beer at the end of the day, but once you get up into the 170's you are really causing harm to the final product. via wikipedia...

"Any starches extracted once the mash is brought above this temperature [172.4] cannot be broken down, and will cause a starch haze in the finished product, or in larger quantities an unpleasantly harsh flavor can develop."

In my opinion, it is better to undershoot temperature and add hot water to go up...

Yes, and this is what I read and is what concerned me.

I've found Beersmith to be pretty accurate. I'm not an expert, but you may probably need to tweak your equipment and/or mash profile.

When I do BIAB, beersmith has always given me an accurate strike water temp. I add my room temp grains to the strike water and stir until I'm at the correct temp. Using a more conservative number like 160F seems about right. At least then you can stir and/or add an ice cube or two if you're too high. If you're too low, you can give the pot a little heat by adding a little extra strike water, or using direct heat while stirring.

Overall, you controlled the temperature within just a few minutes, so hopefully you didn't stop all enzymatic activity. Did you take a pre-boil gravity reading?

Cool, I'll defintely look into the profiles when I get home this evening. Unfortunately I did not get a pre-boil reading that step is new to me for the partials and this was my first partial BIAB. Mental note made and will not skip the step in the future.

I took a gravity reading yesterday and it's at 1.022 from an O.G. of 1.046. It tastes similar to watered down Fosters. I'll do another reading tonight to see if it dropped anymore but I really don't think it will.

so what I imagine I will end up with is an extremely light drinkable beer. Not completely a lost cause.

Appreciate the feedback.

Also, with doing a BIAB partial what is the reasoning behind not putting the grain in and bringng the water up to temp similar to steeping grains? Isn't that pretty much a decoction mash?

 

[Pie_Man]

Also, with doing a BIAB partial what is the reasoning behind not putting the grain in and bringng the water up to temp similar to steeping grains? Isn't that pretty much a decoction mash?

A decoction mash is different. I've yet to do one, but basically you remove part of the mash from the main mash, bring the smaller part of the mash to a boil while stirring and then return to the main mash. It's probably a little more involved than that, but that's the summary version as I understand it.

As far as adding the grains and then bringing the water up to temperature, I believe some people do that, but I haven't tried it. I've had good results hitting my numbers with help from Beersmith, so I've just used that method. I'm still pretty new to BIAB and all-grain though and would be curious what others do.

You can read more here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/biab-adding-grains-before-heating-water-299664/

Also, the BIAB sticky in the all-grain section is very useful.

 

[Hernando]

Perfect, thanks.

 

[mbobhat]

Just a thought...if it is unconverted starch would adding some amylase help lower the gravity a bit? It says on the package that it reduces starch haze and lowers final gravity.

http://www.homebrewers.com/product/6100/Amylase-Enzyme--1-oz.html#top

 

[Stauffbier]

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

+2
And I also use this one which always puts my temps dead on!
http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/infusion.html

 

[Boohausen]

theres a good chance that at only 3 minutes your did not denature the malt, think of it a slight decoction, cause in process you did just that, you may have actually broke the cell walls just enough to actually help you out a bit, if the wort hit target OG you should be just find!!!