Poor students currently brewing 2 batches... tell me where we've screwed up!

[breakfast]

Hey, I've been lurking for a while but finally decided to post

3 friends and I decided to brew some beer in retaliation to some other friends who told us they'd let us brew with them... and then (intentionally) didn't tell us

In return we decided to start brewing some SECRET beer. More specifically, two extract batches: a pilsner and an IPA.

The pilsner is with a dry malt extract and the IPA is with a liquid malt extract. Both brews are 23L.


Some of our equipment is new and some is old. We had to buy a second primary fermenter (5 or 6 gallon bucket), a new siphon hose, thermometer, etc.

A participating friend's dad had brewed beer in the past so we had some stuff from him:
-two 23L carboys
-hydrometer
-the "drop stick" or whatever the attachment to the end of the syphon is called (lol)

and on and on.......



I'm just wondering where we've screwed up (because I know we must've... haha) so if anyone could give some constructive criticism that would be great... any criticism is deserved, I'm sure, anyways.

Specifically: sanitation, transferring (by siphon) and the whole primary-secondary fermenting/fermentation

Keep in mind the brewing is not being done at my house so I don't have specifics on hand right now.

Day 1:
-cleaned out the buckets with soap and water, rinsed etc.
-sanitized with a sodium metabisulfate solution. (we simply poured a cup or so of the solution into each bucket, stuck the lids on for a few minutes and then poured it out and rinsed the bucket... should we have used a different/better sanitizer?)
-mixed the cans of goo with water as per instructions... it was a no boil kit as far as the guy at the store told us. should we have boiled it/them?
-topped up the buckets with purified water (free with each can of brew we bought at the store )
-allowed to come down to appropriate temp... the yeast was added and we popped the tops on and waited about 8 or 9 days (i think)

The instructions we were given told us to transfer into the secondary fermenters at the point of a specific gravity of 1.020 to 1.015. We racked at 1.020. I know one of our first mistakes (already) was that we didn't record an initial specific gravity reading.

At day 8 or 9 or 10, we checked the specific gravity (probably improperly) by washing off the hydrometer, dropping it into the primary fermenter, giving it a spin and then reading off of it. I know it came in a tube and I'm sure we probably should have used it but do people usually siphon into the tube to get a reading? Is it ok to just test in the buckets?

-we cleaned and sanitized our 23L carboys (with the sodium metabisulfate solution, again)
-siphoned (BY MOUTH) each brew into their respective buckets
-cleaned the bungs and airlocks, filled with water and stuck them in

I feel like siphoning by mouth would be an easy way to get an infection in the beer. Is there a better way to draw on the liquid or is this normal for homebrewers?

This might sound stupid but with our mixing spoon, should we be wearing gloves or just being careful to not touch the part of the spoon that is entering the liquid?

We're currently waiting for our secondary fermentation to settle down so we can begin bottling (we first have to buy bottles... cheaper is better, any reccomendations? we're thinking large PET bottles so we don't have to buy so many )

Any other tips before we bottle? Thanks!

/goes back to lurking

 

[Hang Glider]

Come back in three years- we do not support underage brewing/drinking.

 

[JetSmooth]

Come back in three years- we do not support underage brewing/drinking.

Legal drinking age in Canada varies from 18 to 19. This guy's profile says he's 19.

Anyway....

#1 Beer should never be brewed out of spite, hate, or retaliation. The yeast can feel negative vibes and you'll only end up with a light American lager because they will be apathetic and not do a good job.

#2 I see sanitation errors in "washing off" the hydrometer (not sanitizing) and dropping it straight into the buckets. You may have introduced something there. But since we don't know what the OG was, we can'ttell how much alcohol was in the brew that might be able to counteract the infection. You should get a graduated cylinder if the tube the hydrometer came in isn't water-tight (mine wasn't).

#3 Siphon by mouth? I did that when I first started by gargling with vodka beforehand. I got lucky and never had an infection but wouldn't recommend it. Google "Auto-Siphon" and get one. Also good StarSan, which is a great sanitizer.

Can't give you any advice on the kit becuase I've never used a no-boil kit. But RDWHAHB (google it) and best of luck.

 

[maxamuus]

Well in his defense he is in Canada and 19 is legal there.

 

[carrotmalt]

Come back in three years- we do not support underage brewing/drinking.

Breakfast's location = Canada. I believe this makes him legal at 19.

I don't know about the specific sanitizer you used.

I've read that even no-boil kits will produce better results if you boil them for an hour.

As long as you sanitized the hydrometer, you should be fine, but generally you'll take a sample with a wine thief, turkey baster, or (in my case) a sanitized glass measuring cup, then poor it into the tube provided to take the reading. It's easier to read, plus you get to drink the sample and see how it's progressing.:rockin:

I would definitely try not to siphon by mouth if you have a choice. Autosiphons are cheap, but in a pinch, try filling the tubing with sanitized water up close to the top, then when you release the water, it should draw up the beer. (I'm sure there's a much better description of this in a thread here somewhere.)

Keep lurking around and you'll find all you need to know on this site. Good luck!

 

[DeNomad]

19 is definitely legal in Canada.

we first have to buy bottles... cheaper is better, any reccomendations? we're thinking large PET bottles so we don't have to buy so many

Buy bottles?? Naw. I'd say just go to a friends party or host your own and collect empties the next morning. You might need 8 dozen for a 23 L batch though. Anyway that's the poor student in me talking.

The brew is likely fine although it sounds like it was racked prematurely. Just wait and see how it turns out. Let them sit in the bottles for a whole 2 weeks minimum as well. As for siphoning by mouth... it's not good practice but when I do that I use my sanitized hand to grab the end of the tube and put my mouth on the hand to start it going.

Regarding gloves... naw... I usually get sanitizer all over my hands cleaning everything anyway so just don't touch anything dirty until your finished.

Bottling tips:
- If the bottles are old check for mold in the bottom. If there is put the bottles in a tub of hot bleach solution and let it sit overnight. Should lift out any mold and probably remove labels.
- Buy San Star and a vinator (google vinator). That will make bottling much less painful. San Star is no rinse so don't worry about the foam or bubbles, it won't hurt you or the beer.

 

[SoonerDoc]

How do you know you've screwed up? I didn't see anything in your post (unless I missed it) stating what the problem was.

 

[lilwiggum]

I second the StarSan and auto-siphon mentioned by Jetsmooth. However, as a former broke college student myself, I understand the need for getting by on the cheap.

You should check out "How to Brew" by Palmer. He has alot of suggestions for cleaning and sanitizing with products you might already have. Your local library might even have a copy. Best of luck with this batch, I'm sure it will be better than you expect.

 

[Homercidal]

I still siphon by mouth. But I use a "T" adapter with no real possibility of infecting the wort. And that is only from the boil kettle when I can't use my autosiphon.

So yeah, you want to do it cheap, but Star San is required IMO. Or iodophor if you prefer, but I like StarSan.

But when it comes down to it, there is a very good chance that your beer is just fine. Have you tasted it? Is it sour? Does it have stringy tentacles growing in the fermenter, or fuzzy mold?

Keep in mind that your beer will probably not taste great until it's aged properly. And the Pilsner requires lager yeast and lager yeast temps to successfully brew. It may end up with some funkiness in the end, but still plenty drinkable.

 

[edecambra]

Yeah as far as bottling goes, collect old bottles. Reduce, reuse, recycle! You are going to have to clean and sanitize any new bottles you get anyway. If you can find any washing soda to dissolve the adhesive from the labels you basically have new bottles.

Also My LHBS sells their used bottles, 24 for 10 bucks, with the labels already removed. It is much cheaper than buying 24 bottles of beer, since the pry off bottles are usually the more expensive beer anyway.

Don't use the large PET bottles, how will you carb the beer or keep it good for extended periods of time? I am pretty sure the only way to bottle less is either get larger beer bottles ( 22 oz bomber bottles) which can get pricey, Belgian bottles, which you have to cork and can get really pricey, I think used champagne bottles ( cheap north American champagne though, to accept regular bottle caps. Check on this though), or of course kegging, which is the most expensive but easiest for sure.

I am still pretty new to this too, I am on only my 5th batch. It is not a hobby though, it is an obsession. I hope you have more self restraint than I do. I am a poor student too and have spent way too much money that I do not have on this. But I have enjoyed every moment of it! RDWHAHB

 

[NCBeernut]

You didn't really state anything about the final product, nor did you really give enough detail, but I can tell you that your sanitary technique is horrendous throughout the entire process.

Also, you mentioned that you are brewing a lager (pilsner). Are you using lager yeast? Are you pitching a large starter for it? Are you even capable of holding low fermentation temps and lagering temps?

If you are just brewing out of spite, I would say find another hobby. I mean, at least do some homework first. Going and buying a kit with no clue as to what you are really doing is not the way to make solid beer. If you are actually interested in this hobby, go out and buy "How to Brew" by John Palmer and read it first.

 

[dasBuhbuh]

#1 Beer should never be brewed out of spite, hate, or retaliation. The yeast can feel negative vibes and you'll only end up with a light American lager because they will be apathetic and not do a good job.

It is for this reason we always perform a "happy yeast" dance to appease the little yeasties.

 

[Justibone]

Yeah as far as bottling goes, collect old bottles.

Bottle cappers work better with pry-off tops, instead of screw tops. Many cappers can cap champagne bottles, but often require an adjustment to do so.

Don't use the large PET bottles, how will you carb the beer or keep it good for extended periods of time?

Soda bottles can be used for bottling. They may impart a flavor to the beer, though... so bottler beware!

kegging, which is the most expensive but easiest for sure.

Kegging has the biggest equipment cost outlay, but replacing CO2 might be cheaper than replacing bottles in the long run. Hard to say.

I am still pretty new to this too, I am on only my 5th batch. It is not a hobby though, it is an obsession. I hope you have more self restraint than I do. I am a poor student too and have spent way too much money that I do not have on this. But I have enjoyed every moment of it! RDWHAHB

Fortunately SWMBO gets a good check, so she subsidizes my lifestyle and buys me brewtrinkets as gifts... moral of the story: marry money. No, not really. Just fall in love with a beautiful, kind, generous, spirited, sweet, intelligent, sociable alcoholophile with a good job!

The hard part is getting her to fall in love with you. :fro:

 

[Justibone]

... but I can tell you that your sanitary technique is horrendous throughout the entire process...

Yes, your sanitation could use some work, but the beer will (probably) be fine.

Whatever gets you into brewing, if you enjoy it, is good enough. Even spite.

Brew on, intrepid youth!

 

[edecambra]

Fortunately SWMBO gets a good check, so she subsidizes my lifestyle and buys me brewtrinkets as gifts... moral of the story: marry money. No, not really. Just fall in love with a beautiful, kind, generous, spirited, sweet, intelligent, sociable alcoholophile with a good job!

I hear that. I was lucky enough to fall in love with a future dentist. SWMBO loves beer too, even if I drive her crazy with all the equipment around our small condo...

 

[Justibone]

My SWMBO prefers low-cal alco-pops. *shrug*

After all, if she had that good of taste, would she still be with me?!?!?

 

[breakfast]

Ok, so just to clarify:

I'm 19 and the legal drinking age in Alberta (the province in which I reside is 18).

The part about making SECRET REVENGE BEER only makes me want to brew more. I love beer and this part is making it a lot more fun for us.

Also, I'm only being cheap on the bottles part so everything else is ok... I wonder if I could go to a local bottle depot and buy back some bottles from them for the $0.10.... or just buy bottles off people in line waiting mwahahaha.

I understand we've made some sanitizing mistakes. This is in part due to our newbie naivety and also due to the fact that the people I'm brewing with enjoy beer but not the process of brewing I guess... I'm the one doing most of the work and it makes it more difficult to not have the equipment in my own house to work with.

Things I've learned from lurking the forums more:
-my next batch I will probably use StarSan or that iodine one (the name has escaped from me)
-buy an auto siphon
-only primary ferment... there seems to be no reason to secondary with today's kits??

Also, about the comments on the yeast in the pilsner batch: we used the yeast that came with the kit. It said to pitch it right into the primary fermenter once it came down to temp.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention, we haven't noticed any problems (eg infections) yet but I know our process is a little flakey. I just wanted people to point out where we've made mistakes so we can do better next time.

 

[Homercidal]

Ok, so just to clarify:

I'm 19 and the legal drinking age in Alberta (the province in which I reside is 18).

The part about making SECRET REVENGE BEER only makes me want to brew more. I love beer and this part is making it a lot more fun for us.

Also, I'm only being cheap on the bottles part so everything else is ok... I wonder if I could go to a local bottle depot and buy back some bottles from them for the $0.10.... or just buy bottles off people in line waiting mwahahaha.

I understand we've made some sanitizing mistakes. This is in part due to our newbie naivety and also due to the fact that the people I'm brewing with enjoy beer but not the process of brewing I guess... I'm the one doing most of the work and it makes it more difficult to not have the equipment in my own house to work with.

Things I've learned from lurking the forums more:
-my next batch I will probably use StarSan or that iodine one (the name has escaped from me)
-buy an auto siphon
-only primary ferment... there seems to be no reason to secondary with today's kits??

Also, about the comments on the yeast in the pilsner batch: we used the yeast that came with the kit. It said to pitch it right into the primary fermenter once it came down to temp.

Sounds good, except you should probably check to make sure the packet tells what type of yeast it is. Some kits package ale yeast with lager kits because they require temps in the 60s, while lager yeast is usually much lower. And fermentation temps is easily the most important thing to consider after sanitation.

The other sanitizer is iodophor. I use and recommend starsan, but there is nothing wrong with iodophor other than it stains. Both are effective at their proper dilution, and are no-rinse besides (honestly, dont' rinse and Don't Fear the Foam!)

EDIT: infections can take a while to show up, depending. I'd RDWHAHB. It's probably fine.

 

[breakfast]

@Homercidal

I did check the yeast but not for the type but an expiry just to make sure that we didn't get a hosed can or something. There was nothing but half washed off gibberish letters.

Is there a code system?? Hahaha

 

[Germelli1]

From one poor student to another, don't waste money on an auto siphon. Instead (procedure should help you strengthen your sanitizing regiment as well as teach you how to siphon mouth free):

1. When you are sanitizing everything, put a gallon or two in your fermenting bucket and dump everything that need sanitized in there (by a gallon or two i mean of water mixed with the proper amount of starsan)
2. Find another large container to hold the sanitizing solution if you don't need to sanatize the primary fermenter or it is in use (example: at bottling time, use a bottling bucket or something that large like a brewpot, water cooler, etc)
3. Santize the siphon tubing. Dunk the whole length of tube under water and allow it to fill.
4. Keep one end of the tubing high and your thumb over the other end so it remains filled with fluid. Place the end for the beer in the beer and place a small bowl, pot, etc on the floor.
5. Remove your thumb from the other end of the tube to let the water run out. When beer starts coming out move the hose to the bottles or secondary fermenter.

 

[breakfast]

@Germelli1

GENIUS!! I will definitely use this. Thanks.

 

[Germelli1]

@Germelli1

GENIUS!! I will definitely use this. Thanks.

I'm glad you understood, that was hard as **** to figure out how to explain haha. Also if you want to save money, after you mix your sanatizer, you can store it in a jug and re-use it for a month or more!

PS you can also fill a spray bottle with it and spray everything down...I dont use this method but it would be nice to keep one filled for when you need to touch up sanatize or take a hydrometer reading

 

[Rhoobarb]

Or you can use an auto-siphon (I have for 10 years now), ditch having to mix sanitizer in buckets, get a wall paper tray at the hardware store and mix up a small amount of sanitizer, dump your auto siphon, wine thief, tubes, hydrometer, etc. into the tray and go to town.

<---- wall paper tray

Also, I am surprised nobody had mentioned How to Brew, but you should read it front to back. It's free on the web!

 

[Erythro73]

Or you can use an auto-siphon (I have for 10 years now), ditch having to mix sanitizer in buckets, get a wall paper tray at the hardware store and mix up a small amount of sanitizer, dump your auto siphon, wine thief, tubes, hydrometer, etc. into the tray and go to town.

<---- wall paper tray

Also, I am surprised nobody had mentioned How to Brew, but you should read it front to back. It's free on the web!

I would strongly recommend ordering a copy of the book. The book is updated and contains much more informations.

Plus, it's really cheap, even on amazon.ca...

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/0937381888/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[breakfast]

I've been watching some videos on youtube and noticed one brewer (user HomebrewingVideo) uses a "satellite fermenter" aka some wort taken from the inital bucket on day 1 after the yeast is added and puts it in an empty beer bottle to ferment on its own to use for hydrometer readings instead of taking out of the primary fermenter every time...

Is this a good idea? does anyone else do it? any other alternatives?

 

[Justibone]

Satellite fermenter? Some commercial brewers do it, but by no means is it necessary.

We've had arguments whether it would be accurate or not, but to be honest, I didn't end up caring enough to even test it.

My new position on satellite fermenters is: *shrug* ... Whatever floats yer hydrometer.

 

[breakfast]

Besides that it just requires you to open up the fermenter and take samples, then?

 

[CampfireBrewingCo]

Yup. Just make sure everything is sanitary. Use a spray bottle to sanitize the hydrometer, the cap on the fermenter and anything else you come in contact with. Also, an auto siphon is about $10 and will be the best brewing investment you will have made thus far. I highly recommend them.

 

[Justibone]

To take samples for measurement I use a turkey baster sanitized first with hot water and then sprayed inside and out with sanitizer solution. I put the sample into a jar tall and narrow enough to float my hydrometer until I get a reading.

Often I will put the sample back in, pouring it without splashing. Many people drink the samples out of concern that putting it back in might risk the entire batch to any infection it could potentially pick up.

 

[Veinman]

Being another poor student in Alberta I'll add a few comments from a local perspective:

1. Brewing beer is going to be A LOT cheaper in the short and long run then buying it. Many Americans don't realize that our taxes are so insane we're paying around $18-20 for a 12-pack of Canadian or Bud and the prices are even higher for drinkable stuff, a kit is $40 for 5 gallons, allgrain can be done for $20-25.
2. Your sanitization needs improvement greatly its the one hard and fast rule of brewing. Starsan is $20 a bottle but it lasts forever, fill a $1 spray bottle and dilute and it will last for years.
3. Bottling- I had a hard time trying to find pry-off bottles on the cheap, at first I went to a few bottle depots but it was impossible to get enough pryoffs. I then went and got a good bench capper ($40) and now I bottle almost exclusively twist-off bottles I've never had an issue with bottle bombs or not carbing bottles, it takes more pressure but it's not impossible. I'm sure as students you can get many twistoffs from friends if not several recycle depots in Edmonton sell them for $2.50 for 24 and they come in these handy 24 bottle cardboard holders.

I'm in Edmonton by the way so if you wanna hang-out during a brewday and swap recipes and ideas or whatever shoot me a PM.

 

[breakfast]

Being another poor student in Alberta I'll add a few comments from a local perspective:

1. Brewing beer is going to be A LOT cheaper in the short and long run then buying it. Many Americans don't realize that our taxes are so insane we're paying around $18-20 for a 12-pack of Canadian or Bud and the prices are even higher for drinkable stuff, a kit is $40 for 5 gallons, allgrain can be done for $20-25.
2. Your sanitization needs improvement greatly its the one hard and fast rule of brewing. Starsan is $20 a bottle but it lasts forever, fill a $1 spray bottle and dilute and it will last for years.
3. Bottling- I had a hard time trying to find pry-off bottles on the cheap, at first I went to a few bottle depots but it was impossible to get enough pryoffs. I then went and got a good bench capper ($40) and now I bottle almost exclusively twist-off bottles I've never had an issue with bottle bombs or not carbing bottles, it takes more pressure but it's not impossible. I'm sure as students you can get many twistoffs from friends if not several recycle depots in Edmonton sell them for $2.50 for 24 and they come in these handy 24 bottle cardboard holders.

I'm in Edmonton by the way so if you wanna hang-out during a brewday and swap recipes and ideas or whatever shoot me a PM.

Yeah I think we're gonna grab some StarSan for bottling... I have no idea how we would be using the stuff we already have in a timely manner.

We went to a bottle depot yesterday and the guy sold us bottles for $0.20 each which we were ok with because none of us really drink bottles usually so we don't have any saved up and don't want to spend the $200+ bucks for 11 dozen beer to drink and then keep bottles after haha

I'm in Edmonton as well (St. Albert).

 

[Veinman]

Yeah it's still pretty cheap and after each batch you won't need to buy a few more if any, just make sure you get a bench capper not a winged one.

Don't know what you've found for supplies stores thus far. Winning Wines is really good and I know they stock Star-san and the bench capper I go to the one on the southside but goggle tells me their are 3 in the city.

 

[breakfast]

Alrighty so I checked both brews with a hydrometer on Tuesday and today (Thursday).

The IPA hasn't moved from 1.015 and the Pil hasn't moved from 1.020... We're going to bottle on Monday...

We're gonna clean the crap out of the bottles we got from the depot... half are dirty or full of mold so we rinsed them out yesterday and today are soaking them overnight in bleach and water.

On bottling day we're gonna do soap and water again followed by a mild bleach and water bath followed by a thorough hot water rinse.... WOO

 

[dgooden]

Good luck on bottling day! If you haven't seen it yet, check out this thread :

Bottling Tips for the Homebrewer

So many helpful tips, it made my first bottling day painless.

 

[DeNomad]

Just a word of advice on hot water, don't use boiling water on room temp (or colder) bottles. They can and will crack.

Maybe if you did mild bleach and water soak, then rinsed them in a dishwasher with no soap set to "hot rinse" or similar that would work a bit easier. Maybe do one empty rinse cycle with no soap to ensure it's all gone.

I'd double check for mold in the bottom... sometimes it can be stubborn. If you find one like that then I recommend hitting that bottle with a little undiluted bleach from the container.

 

[Justibone]

Take it very easy on the soap b/c some types of soap will spoil your beer's ability to form a nice head.

When you drink your homebrews you will be pouring them into a glass, leaving the last little bit in the bottom of the bottle. I immediately rinse that out using hot tap water and then put foil over the top of the bottle. Next time I'm ready to brew I use my vinator to sanitize them and then they are good to go.

 

[NCBeernut]

From one poor student to another, don't waste money on an auto siphon.

Really? An autosiphon is like 10 bucks. Here are the directions:

1. Sanitize autosiphon.
2. Put in beer, pump a few times.

Here are your directions:

1. When you are sanitizing everything, put a gallon or two in your fermenting bucket and dump everything that need sanitized in there (by a gallon or two i mean of water mixed with the proper amount of starsan)
2. Find another large container to hold the sanitizing solution if you don't need to sanatize the primary fermenter or it is in use (example: at bottling time, use a bottling bucket or something that large like a brewpot, water cooler, etc)
3. Santize the siphon tubing. Dunk the whole length of tube under water and allow it to fill.
4. Keep one end of the tubing high and your thumb over the other end so it remains filled with fluid. Place the end for the beer in the beer and place a small bowl, pot, etc on the floor.
5. Remove your thumb from the other end of the tube to let the water run out. When beer starts coming out move the hose to the bottles or secondary fermenter.

Not worth it? Plus grabbing the end of the autosiphon with your hand isn't exactly sanitary.

 

[SoonerDoc]

Autosiphons are pretty awesome if you ask me.
Absolutely necessary? No.
Worth their price? Definitely.