Poor efficiency or something else?

[Camelot Legends]

Fermentables:
Pearl malt 11lbs
Blackprinz 8oz
Flaked Oats 13oz
Roasted Barley 4oz
Crystal 20L 7oz
Caramalt 7oz
Honey Malt 4oz
Honey 2lbs

I mashed into 7 gal water at 162 degrees Fahrenheit. I thought I mixed really well adding malt slowly while stirring. Hit target of 152 degrees. Mashed for 60 min.
Let bag drain over pot for ten min while heating wart to boil and added additional gal water.

After boil I hit target of 5.5 gal of wart in fermenter.

I usually hit 78% efficiency which according to brewers friend I should have measured out at 1.086. Came in at 1.072. That’s only about 60%.

Could it be just because I’m mashing 16lbs of grain in 7 gal of water? Or does Honey not register on the hydrometer(first time using honey to boost ABV)?

Day and a half in, fermenting just fine.

 

[seilenos]

How did you add the honey? Are you sure it was thoroughly incorporated before you took your measurement? Is it possible it was still sitting as a thick mass at the bottom of the kettle?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

[see #4]

 

[Camelot Legends]

How did you add the honey? Are you sure it was thoroughly incorporated before you took your measurement? Is it possible it was still sitting as a thick mass at the bottom of the kettle?

In the boil. Killed flame added and whirlpool just Kim LME then brought it back up to boil. Took sample from fermenter but after I airated. Maybe that’s it?

 

[GoeHaarden]

I’m mashing 16lbs of grain

Maybe my math is off, but I only got 11lbs + (43oz/16 = 2.6 = 2lbs 11oz) = 13lbs 11oz. of grain to mash. Then your honey...

Brewerfriends gives a gravity of 1.083 with 100% brewhouse efficiency...maybe you calculated something wrong!?

 

[Camelot Legends]

Maybe my math is off, but I only got 11lbs + (43oz/16 = 2.6 = 2lbs 11oz) = 13lbs 11oz. of grain to mash. Then your honey...

Brewerfriends gives a gravity of 1.083 with 100% brewhouse efficiency...maybe you calculated something wrong!?

Maybe my math is off, but I only got 11lbs + (43oz/16 = 2.6 = 2lbs 11oz) = 13lbs 11oz. of grain to mash. Then your honey...

Brewerfriends gives a gravity of 1.083 with 100% brewhouse efficiency...maybe you calculated something wrong!?

Ah! That must be it then. Stupid mistakes. Thx

 

[seilenos]

In the boil. Killed flame added and whirlpool just Kim LME then brought it back up to boil. Took sample from fermenter but after I airated. Maybe that’s it?

Sounds like it should have mixed well doing it that way. I think you would have noticed something off otherwise ... like it being really thick when transferring or a burnt sugary mass being left in the bottom of the boil kettle.

I put your grain bill into BF and came up with 15.69 lb of grain (includes the honey) and an OG similar to what you expected (1.084 @ 78% BH efficiency vs 1.086).

Personally, I lose about 4% BH efficiency for every 10 gravity points in my full volume, no sparge BIAB system.
Given a base calculation of 82% @ 1.050 I would have been looking for about 68% BH efficiency* which would have come in at 1.074.
To me, 1.072 would be right in line.

* Calculation: 82 - (4 * (1.084 - 1.050)/.010)

 

[Camelot Legends]

Sounds like it should have mixed well doing it that way. I think you would have noticed something off otherwise ... like it being really thick when transferring or a burnt sugary mass being left in the bottom of the boil kettle.

I put your grain bill into BF and came up with 15.69 lb of grain (includes the honey) and an OG similar to what you expected (1.084 @ 78% BH efficiency vs 1.086).

Personally, I lose about 4% BH efficiency for every 10 gravity points in my full volume, no sparge BIAB system.
Given a base calculation of 82% @ 1.050 I would have been looking for about 68% BH efficiency* which would have come in at 1.074.
To me, 1.072 would be right in line.

* Calculation: 82 - (4 * (1.084 - 1.050)/.010)

wow, 68% efficiency is terrible but it makes complete sense. Last summer I tried to brew a 4.5% abv cream ale and over shot my efficiency. Ended up with a 5.5% beer. I was thinking it was just the different base grain I used that I wasn’t used too. Didn’t think the efficiency would swing that greatly. Thx

 

[VikeMan]

2 lbs of honey in 5.5 gallons of wort would be about 13 gravity points.

wow, 68% efficiency is terrible but it makes complete sense. Last summer I tried to brew a 4.5% abv cream ale and over shot my efficiency. Ended up with a 5.5% beer. I was thinking it was just the different base grain I used that I wasn’t used too. Didn’t think the efficiency would swing that greatly. Thx

Mash efficiency is affected by grain bill size (all else being equal, including boiloff/finished volume). The bigger the grain bill, the less efficient.

When someone says their efficiency is "always" X, they are either not really measuring, or they are brewing the same grain bill size over and over.

 

[bracconiere]

adding malt slowly while stirring.

i think that would denature a lot of enzymes? i dump it in fast, mix up good like making biscuits or waffles, and let the smaller clumps cook out....

Could it be just because I’m mashing 16lbs of grain in 7 gal of water?

definitely...

 

[odie]

Let bag drain over pot for ten min while heating wart to boil and added additional gal water.

that's not very long and leaves a lot of wort/sugars in the bag. I'll let the bag hang until almost flame out. Gotta squeeze it too. Grain is very good at holding back the wort.

If you need to add water to make your volume, you want to make sure that water goes thru the bag first. Either dunk sparge or fly sparge it somehow.

Pure water added to the kettle does nothing for your efficiency.

 

[Bobby_M]

A full volume BIAB mash with that kind of gravity is expected to be around 70%. That's just the way it is based on the math. You can squeak it up a few points by adding a little more water initially, squeezing the bag harder and then boiling for a bit longer. I personally set my efficiency to 68 in the software and move on with my life.