Pointers on a big stout with lots of adjuncts

[madmanmau]

Hi im planning on brewing a big stout this friday and it will be my first big beer.......

I've got a couple pointers from the recipes section. I made a couple twitches here and there to a recipe so I've got a couple question..so here it comes....

Recipe Type: All Grain
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.105
Final Gravity: 1.029
IBU: 52.57
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Color SRM: 39.45

Ingredients
Grain:

8.38 Lb Pale Malt 2 Row (53.6%)
2.2 Lb Wheat Malt (14.1)
0.9 Lb Caramel Malt 60L (5.8%)
0.68 Lb Chocolate (4.4%)
0.25 Lb Black Malt (1.6%)
0.46 Lb Roasted barley (3%)
2.2 Lb Flaked Oats (14.1)
0.25 Lb Smoked Malt (3.5)

Other fermentables
1.5 Lb Dextrose

Other not fermentables
0.5 Lb Lactose

Hops
2 Oz Magnum (90 min)


Here are my ideas, please correct me if I'm wrong.
The smoked malt I made it myself just to try how much it smokes up...haven't used it yet and got it laying around

Since I live in México and grain is a little pricey down here and I want to make a big beer I wanted to use the dextrose to boost the fermentables up. Since it will make the beer's body thinner I wanted to use a lot of oats, my original idea was to use 4.4 punds but that sounded like too much and didnt wanted to get my mash stuck. Also i thought of the lactose to give it more mouth feel and get a little on the sweet side but not that much since I thought I could add coconut like this recipe says (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/coconut-cream-stout-competition-runner-up-394244/)
Here is a screen shot of the calculator I'm using:


Now.....here are the questions, lots of them:

Should I boost up the oats to add mouth feel and body? or lower those because they are too much and I could get a stuck sparge?

Will the barley and wheat malt enzymes should be enough to convert all the sugar from the oats? How about using unmalted wheat? Even crazier? That would probably need a protein rest right?

But I'm planning on skipping a protein rest to help the body too and doing a long saccharification rest of about 90 minutes to get good fermentability not sure about the water ratio, maybe a thick mash around 1.4 q/Lb and a long rest to get fermentability...crazy thoughts?

Somewhere around the forum I read that adding the dextrose to the carboy after a couple of days after it started is best so the yeast won't get lazy and start right away on the dextrose but with the maltose....is this correct? if so..should I add it diluted with boiled water and make by boil smaller to account for the water added in the calculations? Or should I just add it in the boil?

Now...on the yeast selection is limited to Safale S-04,US-05, Safbrew S33, or going to the crazy side Red Star's Pasteur Champagne...there is not much of a selection on the LHBS...
Going on the safe side I would go with the US-05...but since it is "big" the Safbrew could work as it says it manages well the ABV. Here I'm on the dark.
And of course I would be doing a big yeast starter for this beer....2 packs sounds good or with 1 and a couple days of making the starter it should work?

I know these are a lot of questions to account in a single thread but I didn't wanted to spam them around nor disperse the information.

Cheers!!

 

[mlakota]

Should I boost up the oats to add mouth feel and body? or lower those because they are too much and I could get a stuck sparge?

I think this is fine especially since you're adding lactose also. Most Oatmeal Stouts use around 10% and I've never seen one over 20%. Leave this where it's at.

Will the barley and wheat malt enzymes should be enough to convert all the sugar from the oats? How about using unmalted wheat? Even crazier? That would probably need a protein rest right?

Diastatic Power can be calculated and should be more than 30 degrees Lintner. Using this chart, http://norbrygg.no/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=731.0;attach=2080 (which is in Swedish, so Google Translate), your recipe is as follows:

2 Row: 140*8.38=1173.2
Wheat Malt: 95*2.2=209
Caramel 60: 0*.9=0
Chocolate: 0*.68=0
Black Malt: 0*.25=0
Roasted: 0*.46=0
Oats: 0*2.2=0
Smoked: 0*.25=0

1173.2+209=1382.2

1382.2/15.32(the total grain weight)=90.2

If your switch the Wheat to unmalted it becomes:

1173.2/15.32=76.6

so you should still be fine. I'd leave it as malted in my recipe since it will already be sticky enough with the oats, and I don't want to cereal mash or protein rest.

But I'm planning on skipping a protein rest to help the body too and doing a long saccharification rest of about 90 minutes to get good fermentability not sure about the water ratio, maybe a thick mash around 1.4 q/Lb and a long rest to get fermentability...crazy thoughts?

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that mash ratio doesn't have much effect on fermentability. Long rests will help create a more fermentable wort so stick with the 90 minute mash. What was your intended mash temperature?

Somewhere around the forum I read that adding the dextrose to the carboy after a couple of days after it started is best so the yeast won't get lazy and start right away on the dextrose but with the maltose....is this correct? if so..should I add it diluted with boiled water and make by boil smaller to account for the water added in the calculations? Or should I just add it in the boil?

Many people believe that, and many just add it in the boil. I've never added sugar in the fermentor so I can't help much, but I would leave space for the boiled and cooled water otherwise your volumes and gravities may be changed.

Now...on the yeast selection is limited to Safale S-04,US-05, Safbrew S33, or going to the crazy side Red Star's Pasteur Champagne...there is not much of a selection on the LHBS...
Going on the safe side I would go with the US-05...but since it is "big" the Safbrew could work as it says it manages well the ABV. Here I'm on the dark.
And of course I would be doing a big yeast starter for this beer....2 packs sounds good or with 1 and a couple days of making the starter it should work?

Do not use wine yeast! It cannot handle the sugars in beer. I would use S04 or US05. S33 will give off more esters and there should be no problem getting the other two up to those alcohol levels. For pitch rate and dry yeast use http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html and for yeast starters use http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/. Mr. Malty says 2 11g yeast packets. With the cost of dry yeast versus making a starter, I would just use 2 packets (I don't know prices in Mexico, this advice may be wrong).

Make sure you age this one a while since it is such a big beer. With the oats and lactose you should have no problems with the body of the beer.

 

[madmanmau]

Wow, I don't know where to start, you really went through all my question and we both know those were a lot :rockin:

I think this is fine especially since you're adding lactose also. Leave this where it's at.

Right on. Those are staying put.

If your switch the Wheat to unmalted.....so you should still be fine. I'd leave it as malted in my recipe since it will already be sticky enough with the oats, and I don't want to cereal mash or protein rest.

I'm probably going to go with the unmalted version, cost wise (1:5 ratio between the 2). And probably will skip the cereal mash and protein rest...I will quote something I found around for this:

A mash to gelatinize the grains usually isn't required for unmalted barley, wheat, or rye since the gelatization temperatures for these grains is within the same temperature range as the saccharification range of malted barley.

Cereal mash

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that mash ratio doesn't have much effect on fermentability. Long rests will help create a more fermentable wort so stick with the 90 minute mash. What was your intended mash temperature?

Here I'm going to quote Palmer....we all get to know something new

"A stiff mash of <1.25 quarts of water per pound is better for protein breakdown, and results in a faster overall starch conversion, but the resultant sugars are less fermentable and will result in a sweeter, maltier beer."

But I read it all along and I was mixed up, long mash yes, had the water ratio wrong to get those fermentables out easier, maybe go around 1.7 quarts/lb.
For the mash temp I was planning on hitting 153°F....

Many people believe that, and many just add it in the boil. I've never added sugar in the fermentor so I can't help much, but I would leave space for the boiled and cooled water otherwise your volumes and gravities may be changed.

Since I still have many caculations to get right I will get it right in the boil, forget about it and let the yeast worry LOL

Do not use wine yeast! It cannot handle the sugars in beer. I would use S04 or US05. S33 will give off more esters and there should be no problem getting the other two up to those alcohol levels. For pitch rate and dry yeast use http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html and for yeast starters use http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/. Mr. Malty says 2 11g yeast packets. With the cost of dry yeast versus making a starter, I would just use 2 packets (I don't know prices in Mexico, this advice may be wrong).

Perfect I will stay out the champagne one...and will definitely go with the S04 after I compared US5 and S04 profiles.....less sters with 04, think less fusel alcohol too.

I was using brewers friend to calculate my beer as you can see in the pic
I'm probably going with the 2 packs...breewing equipment (grains, yeast, hops, caps, everything) It's not cheap down here but I really want this beer to get there nicely If it turns out good maybe It will be my stout of choice....I really love stouts and porters (yesterday I had around 8 pints of it LOL)

Make sure you age this one a while since it is such a big beer. With the oats and lactose you should have no problems with the body of the beer.

I will probably go and buy everything right now and get to brewing tomorrow.....I promess pics as soon as I can